A Question Of Intelligent Design

[Atwater Vitki]

The interference I do believe is from our egos and physical sense perceptors. Sit quietly and slowly allow the energy to flow away from these areas and be not afraid of losing your sense of self within the blissful stream of consciousness of All that Is.

Then you will surely know of what RevAl and Brother Michael Sky speak. It is a Universal Experience people have encountered throughout time and across the globe despite their personal belief system. It can change your world.

♫ Harrrummm ♪ Aw Lordy, Lordy ♪ give me an amen Brother! Harruumm♫♪ ohhhh IN the light of the Lord! ♪ Can ya GIVE me a hallelujiah!?♫ ♪ Harruuum♪ Give me a Thank YOU Jeeee-sus!♫ ♪♪♫ ....somehow I just heard the sequence from the "Blues Brothers" when the brothers go see their old boys school nun and the "Lights Go On" when Elwood and Jake get their "Great Idea". Somehow it just seemed to fit.

Rev. Irma said:

i am also looking. I feel there is something I need to hear and something I want to hear....I can almost hear it in my mind, but it is barely audible and there is so much interference from the physical world..........

I will only say this dear Sister, the quiet explosion of this experience is there to be had, prayer/meditation, which ever label you prefer will indeed "get you to the train station", the journey will follow.

If I might suggest to the person who helped me find this wondrous event may speak to you in a like and kind way.

Put away all preconceived ideas, follow the simple instructions of your own heart, which will quiet the ever screaming mind....and glorious wonder of wonders, it can be experienced. This is a "Truth" that can only be experienced, it can not be adequately expressed so that anyone could get you to understand, but through the insights and experience of others who have been there, follow the hints, take the seemingly innocuous instructions seriously.

Sister Irma, you have no idea the rumble of echos, the unfiltered noise of the Multi-verse that filled my head while I too was seeking to hear that barely audible sound due to the interference from the physical world.

All I can say is that experiences like this, if I but have it only once in my Life, (I pray not, but am satisfied none the less if it is) is something that has opened my physical eyes to the magnificence, wondrous awe of things we have little comprehension of in the Spiritual Realms available to us.

Blessings of Peace,

I think the possibilty of their existence is extremely rather high myself, almost guaranteed. Just don't get your big toe stuck in one and you wont even notice. Unless there is some connection with parallel "yous" in those dimensions and those feelings and emotions that hit us out of the blue sometimes are coming from our other selves.

Of course, it's just a TV show, but Fringe is exploring this phenomena when it returns in January. Walter, Olivia and Peter have been and returned, well Olivia 2 did and...well followers know the story line. Again, just a TV show, but I think having "Spock" (Leonard Nemoy) play the grand puba was most interesting.

Blessings,

Serendipity...621 = this post, just got to 621 wins "0" losses on Free Cell and got a 621 last night on Yahtzee! Hmmm I better play 6-2-1 on Lotto today!

Edited December 29, 2010 by RevAl

[Brother Michael Sky]

parallel PHYSICAL universes? wouldn't mean much to me... I live in this one... and any portion of me that is there, is doing the same thing I am here - looking upwards...

ok.... I'm gonna get a little deep here.....

This is from an experience which I have not thoroughly processed yet, but I share it because it fits the question...

ever since I learned of Karma, and the truth about reincarnation, I had this picture in my head. I pictured a long line of lifetimes stretching back to a time which is so far back as to be seemingly infinite... all the lifetimes I have been able to witness seemed to happen one after another.... in an unbroken line.... until this one time, when searching my subconscious for the root of an issue which has been a thorn in my side.... something peculiar happened...

I realized - all of a sudden, and it shocked and confused me for quite a while - that I had the sequence wrong....

some of these lifetimes were out of sequence as relates to physical dates...

This was quite confusing as I had figured that I finally understood how incarnating happens.... but I was mistaken...

To help explain what I figured out, I will need to use an image....

I had previously had a picture in my mind to try to understand my history.... it was like a line on a graph - stretching from point to point, upwards at times, downward at times... but always connected from point to point...

when my points started crossing and merging in places where they could not be touching, I became confused and lost my grip on the idea... so I began searching for the answer, I needed another mental picture.......

I meditated for months - opening my mind to the answer, and asking for instruction so that I might get a handle on this issue, so that I might continue digging through my subconscious for the root of that problem I was dealing with...

During one exceptionally deep meditation I found my instruction - a mental image was solidly in my mind when I cam back to myself.

The image is a spider's web - in the center is me. not just any me - but ME. The root of the various aspects which is my pleasure and duty to manifest.

there are levels to a spider's web - sometimes in a spiral ( which is ideal ) and sometimes in consecutive layers ( when there are very base choices to make in ones development )...

At all times my development takes place somewhere on this web... but the interesting thing is that it is NOT a consecutive - there are lifetimes which are represented by the junction of lines in this web, each junction on the web is a separate lifetime... but they are all taking place simultaneously....

The importance of this keeps occurring to me in different ways...

the main thing is this : Each and every incarnation is actively affecting each and every other lifetime...

for example - if I, in one particular lifetime - am able to increase my vibration to the point of approaching the next octave, it will positively affect each and every other lifetime... conversely, if I fail to try to improve my lot, and move away from my duty, and allow my vibration to fall, it affects me in every lifetime on my web.... I am of the impression that if every aspect of myself were to actively seek enlightenment constantly - it would be a short trip home.... but that is not how it works... each incarnation ( with the exception of a few ) is completely unaware of the others - and finds itself in various mental states, affected by the themes I have chosen as a learning exercise... and is affected by the " average " vibration of my incarnations, which is constantly in flux....

This has explained so many things that were previously causing me great difficulty. The seemingly random changes in my mindset I discovered in my deepest meditations were very confusing to me, as I have been working on mental stability for quite a while with no seeming progress, I felt I had " hit a wall " and could make no further progress... but this answer gave me an understanding of where this resistance was coming from....and that my attempts were not in vain - I simply had a much larger job than I had realized... my efforts are being " shared " by a countless array of me's.... some of whom have the slightest interest in things which are not physically based, and are not helping things in the least - are actually causing me to regress...

This is something which came to me in stages... the understanding of it came naturally and slowly... and for me - it is a revelation - it will make a great difference in my efforts...

there is one " rule " I have noticed in my spiritual exercises.... the strength of your desire, will determine the degree of success... I WANTED, NEEDED an answer to this debacle.... and I would not put the question down until I reached an understanding which allowed me to move forward... what it boils down to, IMO, is " how bad do you want it? ".... this is applicable EVERYWHERE....

and I see this whole thing as proof positive of separate " dimensions "... but I feel, beyond the understanding of these things for spiritual enlightenment, there is next to no purpose in exploring other " physical " dimensions - for I am already there.... doing my thing.... my attention goes to spiritual realms - where I am bound, when I have mastered physical life.... and where all those other me's will end as well - as we merge together - reaching higher and higher, and doing the will of our Father....

[reverend irma]

That was facinating, Brother Mike.

All of my insight comes during deep meditation, or at some point after meditation, so I totally "get" what you are saying. I have had these glorious moments all my life but they have increased in intensity since my accident in 2007.

You present a very interesting scenario to what I, myself am experiencing, and after reading this post, I do believe that the motion of our life may also be dependent on the motion of our parallel lives.

I have often felt my life was in "still shot" mode, or moving very slowly. I also see a continual cycle of lows and highs, feast or famine. I can take a step a head but am always, inevitably at some point, booted backwards in my physical progression. This is especially true in the area of career and finances.

I have meditated on this, but as yet, have received not insight into the "why" of it, or the key to resolving the constant set backs so I can move forward in a steady and productive pace both financially and in my career.

I have amazing dreams, recurring dreams, where I am roaming the grounds of a university. I understand this to be my journey of higher learning.

I also continually dream I am in a large, spacious mansion, but I am renting it and I want to purchase it, I just never get to close the deal, the mansion is being remodeled.

The third recurring dream happens at a terminal. I am surrounded by people I do not know. Mostly adults but often children, teens and college age . I ask them if they are dead, and they tell me they are. Then I try to learn about the other side, but they only stare at me and smile.

I am frequently in "meetings" with two men and a woman, all dressed in business attire. They seem to be judging me, though they are not judgmental.

In one particularily interesting dream, One of the men told me, "It's time."

I leapt from my seat and began choking him, yelling, "You couldn't have come here sooner! You come here now after all the suffering I've been through?"

He looked shocked and the dream ended.

One amazing dream I had, occured shortly after the death of my beloved english setter. I was in such grief. I dreampt I was standing at the bottom of a hill, and Jesus was at the top facing me, and pointing to the right. He was dressed in white robe and sandals. He only said two words, "Go On."

That's all I remember of the dream.

I experience many wonderful euphoric sensations that are difficult to describe. I will be wide awake doing something totally unrelated and I will sense a feeling of illumination, as if a light were being shinned on me.

I also feel elevated to a different plateau, though visually my surroundings don't change externally, internally I know I am not in the physical world. I feel absolute joy and peace, and I am weightless. There is a sensation that I am without physical form. When these episodes occur, it seems again that the light (solar or artificial depending on where I am,) Is brighter, as if I am being bathed in its glow. It's truly marvelous.

Edited December 29, 2010 by reverend irma

[Fawzo]

♫ Harrrummm ♪ Aw Lordy, Lordy ♪ give me an amen Brother! Harruumm♫♪ ohhhh IN the light of the Lord! ♪ Can ya GIVE me a hallelujiah!?♫ ♪ Harruuum♪ Give me a Thank YOU Jeeee-sus!♫ ♪♪♫ ....somehow I just heard the sequence from the "Blues Brothers" when the brothers go see their old boys school nun and the "Lights Go On" when Elwood and Jake get their "Great Idea". Somehow it just seemed to fit.

<lights dimming as Choir signs shearing Bringing in the Sheep> Ushers passing the collection plate

Of course, it's just a TV show, but Fringe is exploring this phenomena when it returns in January. Walter, Olivia and Peter have been and returned, well Olivia 2 did and...well followers know the story line. Again, just a TV show, but I think having "Spock" (Leonard Nemoy) play the grand puba was most interesting.

Blessings,

Serendipity...621 = this post, just got to 621 wins "0" losses on Free Cell and got a 621 last night on Yahtzee! Hmmm I better play 6-2-1 on Lotto today!

The Oversoul Seven Trilogy by Jane Roberts who channeled Seth were great. They were written as a novel surrounding the scenario of an oversoul and how the seven souls within it met in an adventure.

If my reading for the ULC book club weren't longer than my arm I would reread them again

[reverend irma]

<lights dimming as Choir signs shearing Bringing in the Sheep> Ushers passing the collection plate

The Oversoul Seven Trilogy by Jane Roberts who channeled Seth were great. They were written as a novel surrounding the scenario of an oversoul and how the seven souls within it met in an adventure.

If my reading for the ULC book club weren't longer than my arm I would reread them again

I really enjoy gospel music. Especially the hand-clapping rejoicing numbers. I listen to Mahalia Jackson. And I also enjoy movies with a gospel theme like

Leap of Faith with Steve Martin, and Elmer Gantry with Burt Lancaster and The Apostle with Robert Duvall.

[The Gospel Truth]

Yes, quantum physics is applied.(My favorite subject matter along with Metaphysics).

The concept I describe is difficult to comprehend because our brains are limited in understanding of anything beyond programmed data.

When we come into the human vessel as energy, our frequency charges our cellular matter igniting the beating of our heart, the respiration of our lungs and the nervous system in our brain

The brain, once activated, takes control of all the operations of of the vessel, filtering massive amounts of data it receives from its environment.

This process is the beginnings of the brains programming to understanding physical existence.

All the stimuli that we encounter throughout our lives is reference through the brain according to what it learns. It identifies each new sensation or object based on prior knowledge or based on external programming, i.e. what it is taught to believe.

Once the brain develops enough to begin independent thinking, imagination arises and the brain begins to wander to places that it has no physical reference for. Still, because we can experience day dreams and fantasy in our minds, our brain accepts this as a pseudo-reality.

Any concept, idea, image or form that does not fit into what the brain knows or has imagined, becomes alien to it and the brain reacts as if this foreign stimulus was a threat to its survival.

Our brain can only comprehend what we already know to be true based upon programming. To understand a concept, idea, image or object that is beyond the programming of our brain, we need to access higher knowledge. (Not an easy task for those who are resistant to the existence of higher knowledge).

Higher knowledge is located within the spirit mind. The spirit mind is the conscious knowledge of the universe that has been acquired during millions of years of living experience as infinite possibilities from the atom to the man.

IMHO

I agree with a lot of this, however having great vision I believe our comprehension level stems farther then our human brain. I believe we have energy perception which is a understanding to perceive and grasp ideas on a level outside the human mind.

[The Gospel Truth]

That was facinating, Brother Mike.

All of my insight comes during deep meditation, or at some point after meditation, so I totally "get" what you are saying. I have had these glorious moments all my life but they have increased in intensity since my accident in 2007.

You present a very interesting scenario to what I, myself am experiencing, and after reading this post, I do believe that the motion of our life may also be dependent on the motion of our parallel lives.

I have often felt my life was in "still shot" mode, or moving very slowly. I also see a continual cycle of lows and highs, feast or famine. I can take a step a head but am always, inevitably at some point, booted backwards in my physical progression. This is especially true in the area of career and finances.

I have meditated on this, but as yet, have received not insight into the "why" of it, or the key to resolving the constant set backs so I can move forward in a steady and productive pace both financially and in my career.

I have amazing dreams, recurring dreams, where I am roaming the grounds of a university. I understand this to be my journey of higher learning.

I also continually dream I am in a large, spacious mansion, but I am renting it and I want to purchase it, I just never get to close the deal, the mansion is being remodeled.

The third recurring dream happens at a terminal. I am surrounded by people I do not know. Mostly adults but often children, teens and college age . I ask them if they are dead, and they tell me they are. Then I try to learn about the other side, but they only stare at me and smile.

I am frequently in "meetings" with two men and a woman, all dressed in business attire. They seem to be judging me, though they are not judgmental.

In one particularily interesting dream, One of the men told me, "It's time."

I leapt from my seat and began choking him, yelling, "You couldn't have come here sooner! You come here now after all the suffering I've been through?"

He looked shocked and the dream ended.

One amazing dream I had, occured shortly after the death of my beloved english setter. I was in such grief. I dreampt I was standing at the bottom of a hill, and Jesus was at the top facing me, and pointing to the right. He was dressed in white robe and sandals. He only said two words, "Go On."

That's all I remember of the dream.

I experience many wonderful euphoric sensations that are difficult to describe. I will be wide awake doing something totally unrelated and I will sense a feeling of illumination, as if a light were being shinned on me.

I also feel elevated to a different plateau, though visually my surroundings don't change externally, internally I know I am not in the physical world. I feel absolute joy and peace, and I am weightless. There is a sensation that I am without physical form. When these episodes occur, it seems again that the light (solar or artificial depending on where I am,) Is brighter, as if I am being bathed in its glow. It's truly marvelous.

Knowing that you are an empath, your dreams are not so strange. You are a spiritualist seeking a temple this is your mansion.

You are searching for higher knowledge this is your university and the terminal in your dreams of the dead is the portal between life and death. You feel the answers lie in the after life.

You yourself have touched death and returned. The conference of business suits and feelings of judgment is your desire to find out your purpose here. You feel you were sent here to complete a task and that your existence is being critiqued by a higher order who determines if you are ready to move on to next level of existence.

[reverend irma]

Knowing that you are an empath, your dreams are not so strange. You are a spiritualist seeking a temple this is your mansion.

You are searching for higher knowledge this is your university and the terminal in your dreams of the dead is the portal between life and death. You feel the answers lie in the after life.

You yourself have touched death and returned. The conference of business suits and feelings of judgment is your desire to find out your purpose here. You feel you were sent here to complete a task and that your existence is being critiqued by a higher order who determines if you are ready to move on to next level of existence.

Thanks, I probably blew it by choking one of them huh?

[Brother Michael Sky]

One thing I am sure of... There are many ways to translate the experiences of our spiritual nature. Never have I had a spiritual experience that had one aspect - there have always been multiple meanings which take me quite a while to understand... and I have never had someone effectively understand my dreams... they may get portions right ( maybe even enough to convince me they are on to something ) but there are always aspects which are not understandable by others...

And also - I have never met two individuals which have the same experiences... Focusing on another's Truth ( especially when we see a value in it ), to the exclusion of our own Truths, is an easy thing to do at times... but we must ALL do our own searching - for Truth may come to us differently... We are too limited in the flesh to see the whole picture... No one person has all the answers... we must start from a solid base, and build our understanding from our very own perspective...

Rev Irma, your dreams would drive me nuts... I would be in a constant state of meditation until I glimpsed the ideas which are running in circles in my subconscious... and got a handle on their unraveling...

[reverend irma]

One thing I am sure of... There are many ways to translate the experiences of our spiritual nature. Never have I had a spiritual experience that had one aspect - there have always been multiple meanings which take me quite a while to understand... and I have never had someone effectively understand my dreams... they may get portions right ( maybe even enough to convince me they are on to something ) but there are always aspects which are not understandable by others...

And also - I have never met two individuals which have the same experiences... Focusing on another's Truth ( especially when we see a value in it ), to the exclusion of our own Truths, is an easy thing to do at times... but we must ALL do our own searching - for Truth may come to us differently... We are too limited in the flesh to see the whole picture... No one person has all the answers... we must start from a solid base, and build our understanding from our very own perspective...

Rev Irma, your dreams would drive me nuts... I would be in a constant state of meditation until I glimpsed the ideas which are running in circles in my subconscious... and got a handle on their unraveling...

I do try, Brother Michael. I do try. Answers come to me in peace and suddenly I feel myself smiling and I know, theres nothing I need to understand. It will all be made known when the time is right.

[Brother Michael Sky]

I do try, Brother Michael. I do try. Answers come to me in peace and suddenly I feel myself smiling and I know, theres nothing I need to understand. It will all be made known when the time is right.

you will never know the admonitions I have received for impatience....

[reverend irma]

you will never know the admonitions I have received for impatience....

Impatience is human, and we still are.

[Yanesh]

Really interesting thread here, and I hope you don't mind me back tracking in a way to some of the comments made earlier.

I can see what is meant by there is nothing before the beginning, but for the beginning to begin there had to be something, so effectively there is a high probability there was Everything before the beginning chose to begin. What intrigues me is why did the Everything that was nothing chose to become something? And does that choice to create, indicate a consciousness?

If we postulate further, the 'Everything that chose to become something'; by so doing did it create a reference for itself so it 'knew where it was', because a solitary point has no reference to position without a second reference point to connect to? For these two points to create time and space they would require a third point to triangulate distances and positions and further points of reference to create a time before movement and time after.

Each point created gives more detail to the 'original choice made' and the Everything becomes many things. Does this give us the various states of being, the parallel states alluded to in earlier posts?

At any one time we have opportunities to do many things, the probabilities of us doing certain ones carrying a higher degree of probability than others purely because we 'tend that way' out of habits formed in any one lifetime of experiences. Why should we not be living out all those probabilities enriching our Self with the outcomes created? Would it benefit us in this life to know of the experiences of other lives? If so, in what way?

Lastly, at the point where Everything chose to be something, why did 70% (approximately) choose to remain hidden? We still explore dark matter and as yet really do not have much of a handle on it. So where does the intelligence lie?

I like to live my life in a space which is open to doubt, open to reviewing beliefs and expanding the possibilities. I am intrigued therefore in your comments.

Edited January 1, 2011 by Yanesh

[reverend irma]

Really interesting thread here, and I hope you don't mind me back tracking in a way to some of the comments made earlier.

I can see what is meant by there is nothing before the beginning, but for the beginning to begin there had to be something, so effectively there is a high probability there was Everything before the beginning chose to begin. What intrigues me is why did the Everything that was nothing chose to become something? And does that choice to create, indicate a consciousness?

If we postulate further, the 'Everything that chose to become something'; by so doing did it create a reference for itself so it 'knew where it was', because a solitary point has no reference to position without a second reference point to connect to? For these two points to create time and space they would require a third point to triangulate distances and positions and further points of reference to create a time before movement and time after.

Each point created gives more detail to the 'original choice made' and the Everything becomes many things. Does this give us the various states of being, the parallel states alluded to in earlier posts?

At any one time we have opportunities to do many things, the probabilities of us doing certain ones carrying a higher degree of probability than others purely because we 'tend that way' out of habits formed in any one lifetime of experiences. Why should we not be living out all those probabilities enriching our Self with the outcomes created? Would it benefit us in this life to know of the experiences of other lives? If so, in what way?

Lastly, at the point where Everything chose to be something, why did 70% (approximately) choose to remain hidden? We still explore dark matter and as yet really do not have much of a handle on it. So where does the intelligence lie?

I like to live my life in a space which is open to doubt, open to reviewing beliefs and expanding the possibilities. I am intrigued therefore in your comments.

Nice to see you (literally) Yanesh.

I can only answer from my belief which is that energy was always here, and in my opinion, it was not conscious. I believe we have the key to creation all around us if we look for the common thread.

The vibration of energy is no different than the pulse of a heartbeat. The rhythm of life is equivalent to its various vibrations. Everything relates to everything else.

But, I do not believe energy was conscious until duality was established. From duality a primitive conscious awareness of opposites arose.

As creation evolved into more complex beings, consciousness evolved as well.

Believing as I do, I do not feel anything made a conscious choice to be anywhere. Just as the milk does not choose to be cream, nor does the cream choose to be butter, they are because of the consistent vibration process of churning.

Life came to be out of millions of years of vibrating frequencies which created infinite possibilities some which evolved into other things, and some that perished without a trace. Choice was not involved because consciousness was not involved.

Energy exists without knowledge of its existence. It is an automated force, perpetually vibrating in the universe propelling evolution by its ever increasing frequency.

(IMO)

[Fawzo]

Really interesting thread here, and I hope you don't mind me back tracking in a way to some of the comments made earlier.

I can see what is meant by there is nothing before the beginning, but for the beginning to begin there had to be something, so effectively there is a high probability there was Everything before the beginning chose to begin. What intrigues me is why did the Everything that was nothing chose to become something? And does that choice to create, indicate a consciousness?

If we postulate further, the 'Everything that chose to become something'; by so doing did it create a reference for itself so it 'knew where it was', because a solitary point has no reference to position without a second reference point to connect to? For these two points to create time and space they would require a third point to triangulate distances and positions and further points of reference to create a time before movement and time after.

Each point created gives more detail to the 'original choice made' and the Everything becomes many things. Does this give us the various states of being, the parallel states alluded to in earlier posts?

At any one time we have opportunities to do many things, the probabilities of us doing certain ones carrying a higher degree of probability than others purely because we 'tend that way' out of habits formed in any one lifetime of experiences. Why should we not be living out all those probabilities enriching our Self with the outcomes created? Would it benefit us in this life to know of the experiences of other lives? If so, in what way?

Lastly, at the point where Everything chose to be something, why did 70% (approximately) choose to remain hidden? We still explore dark matter and as yet really do not have much of a handle on it. So where does the intelligence lie?

I like to live my life in a space which is open to doubt, open to reviewing beliefs and expanding the possibilities. I am intrigued therefore in your comments.

On Dark matter if we exist within a white hole which is the result of a Black Hole then the 95% of matter which they can't find could merely be surrounding the Black hole from which we sprang. Just a thought

[reverend irma]

On Dark matter if we exist within a white hole which is the result of a Black Hole then the 95% of matter which they can't find could merely be surrounding the Black hole from which we sprang. Just a thought

We could play checkers with that.

[Yanesh]

Definitely could. But isn't there a presumption that 'choice' has to centre around emotion or consciousness? Mathematically a choice is taken when something happens, it doesn't require consciousness to direct it, just the range of possibilities and biases it will be influenced by. In the case of coming into being, mathematically it had an even chance of becoming or not becoming;, some chose to become whilst the rest chose not to become. Could 'God' therefore be the mathematical probabilities behind the events which have taken place since choice was made to begin?

[reverend irma]

Definitely could. But isn't there a presumption that 'choice' has to centre around emotion or consciousness? Mathematically a choice is taken when something happens, it doesn't require consciousness to direct it, just the range of possibilities and biases it will be influenced by. In the case of coming into being, mathematically it had an even chance of becoming or not becoming;, some chose to become whilst the rest chose not to become. Could 'God' therefore be the mathematical probabilities behind the events which have taken place since choice was made to begin?

I can not accept a conscious creator of life as rational. I do not believe choice came into creation either. I cannot debate mathematical probability as I am not good in math. I can only speak from what I feel makes sense.

[RevRainbow]

I can not accept a conscious creator of life as rational. I do not believe choice came into creation either. I cannot debate mathematical probability as I am not good in math. I can only speak from what I feel makes sense.

No more irrational that the universe was created in some kind of unconscious organized chaos that "just" happened, IMO. Interesting about choice. if God chose to create, then man had no choice to exist, but was later allowed a choice between God or Self. Or, if it were all happenstance with no choices and merely complex randomness, how did man wind up with an ability to comprehend the possible existence of a Creator? How did humankind obtain what no other life form on this planet with a brain has - God-consciousness?

[Fawzo]

No more irrational that the universe was created in some kind of unconscious organized chaos that "just" happened, IMO. Interesting about choice. if God chose to create, then man had no choice to exist, but was later allowed a choice between God or Self. Or, if it were all happenstance with no choices and merely complex randomness, how did man wind up with an ability to comprehend the possible existence of a Creator? How did humankind obtain what no other life form on this planet with a brain has - God-consciousness?

My reasoning is that something had to be always be, because nothing can only come from absolute nothing, so somethig had to always exist in some form whether it be energy or consciousness.

RevRainbow I do have to question your assumption that no other life form on this planet has God-consciousness? I don't think that is something that can be verified one way or the other, unless you obtained that information from one of your squirrel chats

Edited January 8, 2011 by Fawzo