Liberal Christianity 2

[Pete]

lol.......hardly. "Fundies" believe that they are saved through faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ; period end.

Has it occured to you that there a many denominations that are considered fundamentalist?

I also know you believe in preaching what you see as the gospel and bringing people to Christ under your definition. Who is it, that is seen screaming at people that they must be saved and that their sin has condemned them. It ain't liberals.

http://en.wikipedia....st_Christianity

As for your comment did I know that there are differing types of fundamentalists, but are we not speaking to a particular group of fundamentalists here.

What makes a "Christian" a Christian Pete?

I think Hex has answered that one and it has also been debated here a number of times.

Despite the quotes from the dictionaries the contention here is that the person declares that they are. I am not going to say they are not and they do not have to justify that to me . That is between them and God.

Edited July 4, 2010 by Pete

[Pete]

I also know you believe in preaching what you see as the gospel and bringing people to Christ under your definition. Who is it, that is seen screaming at people that they must be saved and that their sin has condemned them. It ain't liberals.

http://en.wikipedia....st_Christianity

As for your comment did I know that there are differing types of fundamentalists, but are we not speaking to a particular group of fundamentalists here.

I think Hex has answered that one and it has also been debated here a number of times.

Despite the quotes from the dictionaries the contention here is that the person declares that they are. I am not going to say they are not and they do not have to justify that to me . That is between them and God.

If you look at the link above you will see that fundamentalism was defined fundamentalists for the purpose of separating themselves from Liberal theology. I know many do not like that label but are we now saying you want to join with liberals. I do not think so.

Edited July 4, 2010 by Pete

[Bro. Hex]

What makes a "Christian" a Christian...?

Of course, we could simply rely on Jesus' answer to that one:

"By their DEEDS you shall know them"

[RevRainbow]

"By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one to another." -Jesus (John 13:35)

[Coolhand]

What do you mean "what affords one the basis?".

You seem to be asking a question "in terms of justification".

As a Liberal Christian, I don't have to justify my faith to anyone.

From my perspective, neither do you.

and neither does anyone else.

I do not choose to speak of being a Christian in terms of Justification.

As a Liberal Christian, such justification has no meaning for me.

I'm not asking you or anybody to justify anything.

[Coolhand]

Coolhand, if it turned out that your God wasn't all powerful would your love for that god collapse, or would you simply incorporate your new understanding into your relationship?

If it worked out that Mary was bonked by a travelling salesman would that make a difference, to you, to the depth and power contained within the philosophies of Christ?

What kind of faith is so dependent on the specificities of dogma that all worth and value and meaning implodes in the absence of that dogma? Surely that is no faith at all. Rather it is a foundation of idols demanding that all reason be sacrificed on its altar.

In my opinion, if God did not have and display power over nature and other spiritual forces then he would be a liar and we would be through.

Christ's philosophies are echoed through the centuries. Many people have discovered the things he taught on thier own, many of which are just common sense. I'm not sure what Mary has to do with that.

I'm sure what you mean by dogma. I know what dogma is, but Christianity as I know it is based on an event rather than a dogma. There is dogma that us used to explain aspects of it, but the dogma is not the point.

[Coolhand]

I also know you believe in preaching what you see as the gospel and bringing people to Christ under your definition. Who is it, that is seen screaming at people that they must be saved and that their sin has condemned them. It ain't liberals.

http://en.wikipedia....st_Christianity

As for your comment did I know that there are differing types of fundamentalists, but are we not speaking to a particular group of fundamentalists here.

Did you notice this:

This article has multiple issues. Please help improve the article or discuss these issues on the talk page.

Its neutrality is disputed. Tagged since March 2009.

Its neutrality or factuality may be compromised by weasel words. Tagged since March 2009.

As much as you many dislike it Pete, recruiting is not a means of getting saved or staying saved. Salvation is attained through faith in the the shed blood of Jesus Christ; that is it. That (according to this fundamentalist) is the one defining attribute; period end.

I think Hex has answered that one and it has also been debated here a number of times.

Despite the quotes from the dictionaries the contention here is that the person declares that they are. I am not going to say they are not and they do not have to justify that to me . That is between them and God.

Im not asking you to justify anyting either. What makes you a Christian? Is what I am asking.

If you look at the link above you will see that fundamentalism was defined fundamentalists for the purpose of separating themselves from Liberal theology. I know many do not like that label but are we now saying you want to join with liberals. I do not think so.

Yeah, so. I am trying to find out what liberals and fundemanlists have in common, and so far I get that that is an illegal question. Why can't you guys stop accusing me of asking you to justify yourselves and just tell me why you consider yourselves Christian? Is it that you don't know? Or don't want to say? What is it?

Of course, we could simply rely on Jesus' answer to that one:

"By their DEEDS you shall know them"

Oh, so liberal Christians are perfect? They make no mistakes?

"By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one to another." -Jesus (John 13:35)

I know many non-Christians that are very loving. What about them?

[Bro. Hex]

I'm not asking you or anybody to justify anything.

Okay, I will take your word for that,

but could you please explain in simple terms that we all can understand

what it was that you were asking for by the question

"What affords one the basis?".

because don't know any other way to understand your question.

If you weren't asking for justification,

what were you asking for?

[Coolhand]

Okay, I will take your word for that,

but could you please explain in simple terms that we all can understand

what it was that you were asking for by the question

"What affords one the basis?".

because don't know any other way to understand your question.

If you weren't asking for justification,

what were you asking for?

Example:

Sam and Dave are sitting at the bus stop. Sam is reading a New Testament. Dave says, "Oh are you a Christian?" Sam says, "I don't know, what is a Christian?" Dave says, "______________________."

What I am asking is what your version of Dave's answer would be. This isn't hard. Do you guys not know what it is?

[Bro. Hex]

What makes a "Christian" a Christian...?

Of course, we could simply rely on Jesus' answer to that one:

"By their DEEDS you shall know them"

Oh, so liberal Christians are perfect? They make no mistakes?

I am afraid I really don't understand where this question is coming from, Cool.

I didn't say anything about making mistakes.

I didn't say anything (in the passage that you just quoted)

about Liberal Christianity.

When I said WE could rely on what Jesus said,

I meant WE...US...you and me, Pete, Dan,

anybody who reads this thread.

I am no saying "me good you bad"

I am just saying that I think that the "best answer"

to the question of "what makes a Christian a Christian"

was answered two thousand years ago

by someone WE ALL OF US revere, okay?

[Pete]

Did you notice this:

This article has multiple issues. Please help improve the article or discuss these issues on the talk page.

Its neutrality is disputed. Tagged since March 2009.

Its neutrality or factuality may be compromised by weasel words. Tagged since March 2009.

Any discussion that talks about fundamentalism by those who are not fundamentalists is always hotly deputed in my experience. There are many web sites on the web that talk about liberal theology but they prevent any liberal from responding to them.

As much as you many dislike it Pete, recruiting is not a means of getting saved or staying saved. Salvation is attained through faith in the the shed blood of Jesus Christ; that is it. That (according to this fundamentalist) is the one defining attribute; period end.

I know that recruiting is not saving people in your definition or any other fundamental church member but do you recruit just for people to attend. No you recruit so they can be saved according their definition. One process is part of the other.

Im not asking you to justify anyting either. What makes you a Christian? Is what I am asking.

Yeah, so. I am trying to find out what liberals and fundemanlists have in common, and so far I get that that is an illegal question. Why can't you guys stop accusing me of asking you to justify yourselves and just tell me why you consider yourselves Christian? Is it that you don't know? Or don't want to say? What is it?

Following Christ or being inspired by Jesus is a personal thing (IMO) and I would not recommend anyone telling you what inspires them because I believe all you would do is criticize them.

Oh, so liberal Christians are perfect? They make no mistakes?

Cause we make mistakes, it is part of growth.

I know many non-Christians that are very loving. What about them?

Yea what about them Cool. Is God going to punish them over a belief difference and overlook their love?

[Bro. Hex]

Example:

Sam and Dave are sitting at the bus stop. Sam is reading a New Testament. Dave says, "Oh are you a Christian?" Sam says, "I don't know, what is a Christian?" Dave says, "______________________."

What I am asking is what your version of Dave's answer would be. This isn't hard. Do you guys not know what it is?

Sure, now I can answer you.

(thanks for the explanation, as I totally didn't get this at first):

FOR ME, anyone who chooses to follow the teachings and example of Jesus

as to how to live their life, that one is a Christian.

I am sure that there are many, many answers to that question,

but my answer is the one I give here.

[Pete]

This site explains a lot about Liberal Christianity

http://jmm.aaa.net.a...icles/13746.htm

Edited July 4, 2010 by Pete

[Bro. Hex]

This site explains a lot about Liberal Christianity

http://jmm.aaa.net.a...icles/13746.htm

Super website...

Thanks, Pete!

[RevRainbow]

I know many non-Christians that are very loving. What about them?

In regards to what? being disciples? Saved? You know them (you say), I do not. Do you think it is wise for me to pass judgment on any factor of their spirituality? It is a leading question, IMO, for you to use to pounce on our differences. I choose not to answer simply for the sake of further argument. Jesus' saying does not imply that all people who love are his disciples. "Even you, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children." Knowing as much as you claim to know, you should know why I chose that verse in describing a Christian.

There is nothing wrong with being a fundamentalist other than most of the time they fall into a pattern of biblical legalism and have lost their first love.

[Pete]

There is nothing wrong with being a fundamentalist other than most of the time they fall into a pattern of biblical legalism and have lost their first love.

I agree. It is very possible to believe in fundamental things but still be liberal.

The defining question is are we content to let God be God or do we claim that we have the only way of knowing God and obtaining his love to the exclusion of all others.

If you look at the site I recommended you will see that it says liberals are found in every denomination and why not.

Edited July 4, 2010 by Pete

[Coolhand]

I am afraid I really don't understand where this question is coming from, Cool.

I didn't say anything about making mistakes.

I didn't say anything (in the passage that you just quoted)

about Liberal Christianity.

When I said WE could rely on what Jesus said,

I meant WE...US...you and me, Pete, Dan,

anybody who reads this thread.

I am no saying "me good you bad"

I am just saying that I think that the "best answer"

to the question of "what makes a Christian a Christian"

was answered two thousand years ago

by someone WE ALL OF US revere, okay?

Has it occured to you that there are non-Christians and anit-Christians that have "works" or "deeds" that are at least as kind and decent, and in many cases exceed the deeds of Christians? This question is coming from the knowledge deeds are no indicator to Chrstianity or non-Christianity. Plain and simple.

Edited July 4, 2010 by Coolhand

[Coolhand]

Sure, now I can answer you.

(thanks for the explanation, as I totally didn't get this at first):

FOR ME, anyone who chooses to follow the teachings and example of Jesus

as to how to live their life, that one is a Christian.

I am sure that there are many, many answers to that question,

but my answer is the one I give here.

Thank you Hex. With this as what I would call the "basis" of Christianity, I would say it is then up to the individual to determine the direction and intensity of his or her commitment, action, and theology from there. But that would be the starting point. Would you agree?

[Brother Michael Sky]

I would say that everyone on the planet since the Bestowal of the Christ Spirit was a Christian effectively....

Since it WAS a bestowal to all who take bodies from that point on...

I don't believe Jesus had to die for our sins....

I don't believe in a virgin birth...

and I most importantly do not believe in any type of imposed Hell whatsoever....

or judgement other than self-imposed...

am I still a liberal Christian? I do believe that Jesus played a very crucial role in the " salvation " of my soul ( I would call it " development " ) and I do recognize the bestowal of the Christ Spirit to be inextricably linked with Jesus's last incarnation.... ( y'all know I'm using that name for clarity )

so am i a liberal christian?

[Coolhand]

This site explains a lot about Liberal Christianity

http://jmm.aaa.net.a...icles/13746.htm

Nice Pete. This following quote is from that link:

For many liberal Christians, social justice is a central concern, and the transformation of society, rather than that of the individual, is more typically stressed. Equality for racial minorities, women, homosexuals, and the economically disadvantaged is seen as an essential part of the Gospel message. A concern for the environment, and other typically liberal social issues, also find a great deal of support among liberal Christians.

.....is how I have viewed liberal Christianity in regard to comparing and contrasting with fundamental Christianity. After studying the great liberal Christian theologians and philosophers of religion this quote above was the conclusion that I had drawn.

This difference can be summed up by saying the the liberals view of God more transcendent, where the fundamentalist view in more immanent.

Personally, I think universalism is a flawed doctrine, but I think you can find evidence for it in Scripture, specifically in Paul's writings.