The Craft Of The Wise

[Himitsuko]

Hey this discussion has gotten really interesting. I've read some stuff that I agree with, and some that, of course as an individual, I don't agree with, but mostly I'm impressed that there are so many people honestly participating.

A mystic desires only walking in the love of the Divine

Okay, I don't want to start nitpicking definitions. That's not the point, but I really disagree with the above statement because I consider myself to be a mystic even before I consider myself a witch and I just feel that this statement is only part of the story.

It's true that I desire most to walk in the love of the Divine, but the question that naturally arises is how do I do that. I've discovered through the years that living a life of generosity, forgivness, courage, loyalty and kindness, is in fact the only path I know to living in that Most Perfect Light. In other words, living in Divine love looks an awful lot like serving one's fellow man. I have discovered that happiness is primarily determined by one's own thoughts and attitudes, but I wish to give that same gift of happiness to anyone and everyone who is ready to hear it. I wish to Love anyone and everyone who can feel it. In other words, the mystics desire to walk only in Divine Love is an extremely active process. No one gets to just sit by and bliss out in a dream world. The only way I can walk in a truly Divine and unselfish love is to love my fellows.

We all exert force on the Universe. Some force is creative, and some is destructive. Most of it is manipulative in some way or another. It is manipulation of a sort to encourage a friend to try something new, to get a neighbor to try marriage counseling. Witchcraft is merely one tool that we can use to manipulate our world. What good does it do you to manipulate the world all for you. With great power comes great responsibility. I cannot make choices for other people, but I can encourage them to make good choices for themselves. Some people may argue that this is not even magick at all, but mere common sense, but honestly, it takes a deep desire for wisdom, and a deep seated need to love unconditionally, and for me, also the use of personal magick, to affect that kind of change. To paraphrase, I am a witch BECAUSE I am a mystic. Witchcraft is just my tool to the ultimate goal. A world where I, and all those in my universe, can walk in Divine Love.

The second thing that I noticed is the idea that trials and tribulations, cares, stresses, disease, and negative circumstance are designed, by the Divine presumably, at least some of the time so that Man can learn. Now, I don't disagree entirely, but my question is, learn what?

I don't pretend to actually KNOW the answer, but I can offer my personal answer to that question. You see, I think that sometimes the lesson is humility, but probably more often the lesson is that you are in charge of your own life. Sometimes, a trial can be the universe giving you a signal that you aren't living your purpose. That if you don't pick up and take charge of your own health and wealth, you'll never rise to your own personal potential. Life may feel purposeless.

What does that have to do with me. A lot of times, people only have one immediate solution to their problems. They don't think, I need to take charge of this area first, and then that one, and I feel guilty all the time because I keep blowing my responsibilities off. Heck if they had gotten that far, they wouldn't be sick and miserable in the first place. (IMHO)

What they can say is, "I feel like crap and I need to get some help. Someone out there must know what to do when you feel like this." It's emotional. It's frustrating, it's exhausting, it's depressing, it's overwhelming, and I just can't go it alone and I'm not sure where to turn.

Some people go to doctors. Some to psychologists. Some to more conventional ministers. Some people come to me. Because I meditate, I keep my own vision and my own mission clear. Help others help themselves using the tools, the resources, and the dreams that they already have available to them. I don't tell them to live my way, which is a nuts way to live and is only really designed to work for me. I can help them design a life that is made to work for them. I give them tools, ideas, motivation, and often a recommendation to just the right kind of "professional" to help with their problem. That is the very definition of witchcraft by my definition, even if it doesn't come with all the fancy spells and rituals ie bells and whistles.

It is in fact BECAUSE I think that pain and trials are designed to be learned from that I can justify my use of witchcraft to help those who are asking and in need.

[emalpaiz]

Himitsuko, I found your words beautiful. Mystics are found in every religion or spiritual tradition of the world. True mystics come in different forms and express themselves in different ways. I have found that mystics around the world are like a very small community of like minded people even though they might not share the same religion; nevertheless they share the awareness of an Inner Light that fills them with profound Love.

Mother Teresa of Calcutta was a mystic and at the same time she went out into the world to do some good. Sri Ramana Maharshi of Arunachala (1879-1950) was also a great mystic, but he spent most of his life in a state of contemplation and teaching those who came to him. Sri Ramakrishna Paramahansa (136-1886) was a God intoxicated mystic, but he was also a temple priest to Mother Kali and a teacher of universal spirituality. Shyama Charan Lahiri (1828-1895) was a family man, a civil servant, a poet, an educator, and a spiritual teacher; yet he also found time to be a social reformer. There was also the great iconoclast J. Krishnamurti (1895-1986) lecturer and educator. I can go on and on mentioning mystics who have influenced the world inspired by their mysticism.

I do not see why you can not use the talents that you have cultivated for the benefit of mankind. One thing that sincere mystics have never been is egotistic. All the mystics that I have known have distinguished themselves by a heart of loving kindness, and the ability to share their understanding and talents with others.

I pray that you will do the same. Thank you!

Hermano Luis

Moriviví Hermitage

[Himitsuko]

YEAH!! I finally got my bedroom Feng Shui'd!!! Now to tackle the rest of the house eh?

I really feel that I'm in another stage of magickal development. I am doing really well using the instability brought by our political and economic situation as an opportunity to move forward-seriously forward in my life. The energy here is so chaotic and so many people right now are afraid-dare I say petrified of the future. Now personally I think it will all be okay, but this time of unrest is a good time to do some pretty serious work, professionally, domestically, and spiritually. Does anyone else feel that way right now?

Now that we're a little older and wiser in the Craft, we can be sure of facing new and more frightening challenges. What skills do you have to deal with those challenges. What perceptions have you gained through the Craft, that you find yourself using on a daily basis.

Keep the comments rolling. We're all in this together right now.

Even when we don't agree.

Thank you Emalpaiz for you kind words

Qyros-You know I actually tried that, but I do not deal well with death at all. My heart broke every day and I finally got an ulcer. The Doc told me I was simply under too much stress and that I needed to find something that was not so emotionally taxing. Now I am trying to build a company that hopefully will change the way the whole world looks at the New Age movement.

[Rev.Fred]

Qyros-You know I actually tried that, but I do not deal well with death at all. My heart broke every day and I finally got an ulcer. The Doc told me I was simply under too much stress and that I needed to find something that was not so emotionally taxing. Now I am trying to build a company that hopefully will change the way the whole world looks at the New Age movement.

Death, for me, is a beautiful thing. I remember watching my grandmother suffer from cancer and wishing the Universe would just take her out of pain. I remember that she ripped her feeding tubes out and asked to go home. That first night of hospice my husband and I had first watch. I remember the nurse waking me up saying my grandma had stopped breathing. I rushed to her side, held her hand, and watched her slip away. To me it was the most peaceful and beautiful thing I'd ever seen. A minute after she officially died, I saw this multi-colored tornado looking thing build up out of her chest (center and up above her breast). It was swirling faster and faster until it made me see all the auras in the room and then shot through the ceiling and the auras left with it. After that, I knew she had gone. There was so much comfort and validity of souls after that, that I can no longer question an afterlife.

[Fawzo]

Death, for me, is a beautiful thing. I remember watching my grandmother suffer from cancer and wishing the Universe would just take her out of pain. I remember that she ripped her feeding tubes out and asked to go home. That first night of hospice my husband and I had first watch. I remember the nurse waking me up saying my grandma had stopped breathing. I rushed to her side, held her hand, and watched her slip away. To me it was the most peaceful and beautiful thing I'd ever seen. A minute after she officially died, I saw this multi-colored tornado looking thing build up out of her chest (center and up above her breast). It was swirling faster and faster until it made me see all the auras in the room and then shot through the ceiling and the auras left with it. After that, I knew she had gone. There was so much comfort and validity of souls after that, that I can no longer question an afterlife.

That is beautiful Rev.Fred thanks for sharing it with us!

[Rev.Fred]

That is beautiful Rev.Fred thanks for sharing it with us!

Well it had such a profound affect on my life, in many ways. That morning I found out I was pregnant with my first daughter. After she was born, she wouldn't calm down so I'd take her for car rides. I'd smell my grandmother's perfume and feel her at the same time my daughter would stop crying and fall asleep. I really do think that most of life can't just be read about and have opinions formed from just reading it, it must be experienced and felt within yourself. I think that is the problem with many people of faith. They spend all this time reading instead of feeling their Higher Power and never truly gain any knowledge until the feel it for themselves. A mighty wind while looking at the valley below can shake you to the core much more powerfully and spiritually than reading a passage from a religious book, in my eyes any way.

[Satyam]

I read a great book years ago called, 'Who Dies', by Steven Levine.

I then gave it to a friend who 'used it' sitting with a passing friend.

I just saw it on Amazon.com for .01.

Great Read!

[RevRainbow]

Fawzo,

good post mon, I apologize for assuming that you were Christian and anti-everyone else lol although I've run into a lot of that.

I do apologize for entering into this conversation, but I would like clarification on the above statement. Does this mean that suddenly, Fawzo is no longer labelled "Christian" by you. musicman, because he doesnt fit into the mold you have prescribed? Are your concepts of a Christian presupposing we are "anti-everyone else?" (Interesting that you added that phrase) I again apologize, but it appears to me I see a lot of subtle Christian bashing by those who claim to be open minded about spiritual things. Am I not a Christian then, according to you, because I am not "anti-everyone else?" Perhaps you should consider the "Christians" you have claimed to "run into a lot," are not spiritually mature or maybe even of a cultish nature of so-called christianity. I am sure you have run into other spiritually lacking believers of other faiths also. Are they also resented to this degree?

You dont have to "assume" I am a Christian. I AM a Christian. And I am getting a bit upset at the way others here group Christians into a select defined group of intolerants by their pseudo spirituality and knowledge of the Divine. It shows me that those who do so aint as spiritually mature as they think they are. And, the animosity shown proves to me that perhaps your way aint no better than mine when it comes to resenting those of different beliefs.

Dont give me no LOL's. It aint funny. It pisses me off. We seek after God and yet resent those who follow different paths. How far away we actually are from the Creator and understanding the Truth.

[SalemWitchChild]

I do apologize for entering into this conversation, but I would like clarification on the above statement. Does this mean that suddenly, Fawzo is no longer labelled "Christian" by you. musicman, because he doesnt fit into the mold you have prescribed? Are your concepts of a Christian presupposing we are "anti-everyone else?" (Interesting that you added that phrase) I again apologize, but it appears to me I see a lot of subtle Christian bashing by those who claim to be open minded about spiritual things. Am I not a Christian then, according to you, because I am not "anti-everyone else?" Perhaps you should consider the "Christians" you have claimed to "run into a lot," are not spiritually mature or maybe even of a cultish nature of so-called christianity. I am sure you have run into other spiritually lacking believers of other faiths also. Are they also resented to this degree?

You dont have to "assume" I am a Christian. I AM a Christian. And I am getting a bit upset at the way others here group Christians into a select defined group of intolerants by their pseudo spirituality and knowledge of the Divine. It shows me that those who do so aint as spiritually mature as they think they are. And, the animosity shown proves to me that perhaps your way aint no better than mine when it comes to resenting those of different beliefs.

Dont give me no LOL's. It aint funny. It pisses me off. We seek after God and yet resent those who follow different paths. How far away we actually are from the Creator and understanding the Truth.

I think a lot of people assume Christians are anti on any other religion because Christians claim to be the "One true religion". Sure there are those who are tolorant or even admit there isn't one true religion. But then again if their christian and believe that then they don't believe all the tenents of Christianity do they?

Every persons religious experience is different. It is extremely personal and cannot be put into a small box and say this is what it is.

[Rev.Fred]

I do apologize for entering into this conversation, but I would like clarification on the above statement. Does this mean that suddenly, Fawzo is no longer labelled "Christian" by you. musicman, because he doesnt fit into the mold you have prescribed? Are your concepts of a Christian presupposing we are "anti-everyone else?" (Interesting that you added that phrase) I again apologize, but it appears to me I see a lot of subtle Christian bashing by those who claim to be open minded about spiritual things. Am I not a Christian then, according to you, because I am not "anti-everyone else?" Perhaps you should consider the "Christians" you have claimed to "run into a lot," are not spiritually mature or maybe even of a cultish nature of so-called christianity. I am sure you have run into other spiritually lacking believers of other faiths also. Are they also resented to this degree?

You dont have to "assume" I am a Christian. I AM a Christian. And I am getting a bit upset at the way others here group Christians into a select defined group of intolerants by their pseudo spirituality and knowledge of the Divine. It shows me that those who do so aint as spiritually mature as they think they are. And, the animosity shown proves to me that perhaps your way aint no better than mine when it comes to resenting those of different beliefs.

Dont give me no LOL's. It aint funny. It pisses me off. We seek after God and yet resent those who follow different paths. How far away we actually are from the Creator and understanding the Truth.

I'm so sorry you feel that way Rev. Rainbow. I personally love your open pulpit work. You have been the most understanding and neutral person I've seen, other than Q. I hope you don't feel that the majority of non-Christians think of Christians in a poor light......

[RevRainbow]

SWC: Yeah, admittedly, it is hard to differentiate between the Christian "sects," each one claiming some Divine reasoning in their practices. One can call their self a Christian and yet have many opposing beliefs to other Christians. Screwy, aint it? But this is also true in other belief structures where interpretations have led to division. I sensed that even in this thread on the use of magick.

RevF: Thanks, I needed that. I guess sometimes I am sensitive to the responses of others who see Christians in a certain "light," when actually it is not light at all but darkness. What they have experienced is not Christianity, but the intolerance of certain Christians. My perspective of the "gospel" is not believe it or else, it's believe it or not. The choice is yours as it was mine. Jesus lived the gospel, He didn't pressure and thus, I try to do the same.

Now, lets get back to the thread (I apologize for the diversion) which I have found thus far to be quite interesting. Peace.

[musicman153]

I do apologize for entering into this conversation, but I would like clarification on the above statement. Does this mean that suddenly, Fawzo is no longer labelled "Christian" by you. musicman, because he doesnt fit into the mold you have prescribed? Are your concepts of a Christian presupposing we are "anti-everyone else?" (Interesting that you added that phrase) I again apologize, but it appears to me I see a lot of subtle Christian bashing by those who claim to be open minded about spiritual things. Am I not a Christian then, according to you, because I am not "anti-everyone else?" Perhaps you should consider the "Christians" you have claimed to "run into a lot," are not spiritually mature or maybe even of a cultish nature of so-called christianity. I am sure you have run into other spiritually lacking believers of other faiths also. Are they also resented to this degree?

You dont have to "assume" I am a Christian. I AM a Christian. And I am getting a bit upset at the way others here group Christians into a select defined group of intolerants by their pseudo spirituality and knowledge of the Divine. It shows me that those who do so aint as spiritually mature as they think they are. And, the animosity shown proves to me that perhaps your way aint no better than mine when it comes to resenting those of different beliefs.

Dont give me no LOL's. It aint funny. It pisses me off. We seek after God and yet resent those who follow different paths. How far away we actually are from the Creator and understanding the Truth.

Dearest rainbow,

I think that I made it quite clear when I said Christian "AND" anti everything else. And would suggest plus, the word "and" connects two words or statements.

I don't think I labeled Fawzo as anything. As far as Christians are concerned I've met some wonderful Christians, Catholics, Mormons ect. Unfortunantly the majority are taught that God only supoorts their particular branch of even their faith and condems everyone else. It's rather sad that are such poor teachers out there as this is not what they're Guru taught. perhaps they should read they're own book (I have).

Dont want to get into an argument with you at all and my intention in the first place was to clarify what was meant by "The Divine Plan" and who this plan includes which I think we were well past.

So Revrainbow If you would like to discuss theology, comparative religions, or what the bible actually says compared to what is taught I'd love to do that in a civilized manner and perhaps in a different post.

Peaceb2u

[RevRainbow]

I sure hope I have not reached the age where I get that dog's extra 20 years and just sit on the porch barking at people! Peace

[Argonious]

For myself the use of Magick and the power that if it is there, is a way for me to gain greater depth of understanding of what I am and who I am.... Father teaches us that Magick and the abilities that we have are not to be used for personal gain in this realm of material wealth and dersires.... we are not to use ways to manipulate situations to our favor or others we know.

Mystic knowledge and understanding is imparted to many through the use of the rituals and tools that we use in our every day pagan lives....being a mystic is being one who can impart understanding in the ways of the elder ones, and learn from all creatures, places, and things that our within ones realm and path at any given time....

I think sometimes we confuse our desires and ways of life with those of different cultures and backgrounds of wisdom and knowledge, if the divine as it has been called didn't want something to be changed then why place the thought or action of it in the mind of the creation it has created.? Why empower it with the ability or such to do so and give it the wisdom to make it happen even if it is for a lesson of learning, or a way to gain knowledge of something new, or knowledge about itself and its creation to gain a higher level of understanding?

I would think that it would be for us to know all aspects of Magick and Mystic ways of life so that we may help with new and unusal ways of knowledge that will be opened as well as understood by all.....

[Fawzo]

I sure hope I have not reached the age where I get that dog's extra 20 years and just sit on the porch barking at people! Peace

Naw not yet, you're still ok....but I think its time you change that flea collar <scratch scratch>

[Himitsuko]

Argonious,

I really like the way you put that. We gain so much understanding just from the practice of magick. It takes discipline, concentration, and a very clear unbiased mind to percieve and evaluate the reality of the situations around us. There is purpose in hardship. It gives us the chance to learn and grow. How will we deal with the chaos in life. We cannot condemn it, and we cannot prevent it. Too much stability, much less total stagnation, prevents growth. But we can "roll with the punches." We can turn and draw when necessary, and most importantly, we can learn when and how to tell the difference. This is Wisdom, who also teaches us that all our efforts without the wellspring of Love are empty and hollow.

My challenge this year is to help a friend of mine who is terribly angry and depressed (and has been for a couple of years now) to recreate his life in such a way as to be satisfying and fulfilling to him. He needs badly to learn that happiness comes from deep inside, not from the external world. The only real way to teach someone this lesson, is to set the constant and unyielding example and to be kind and compassionate even when angry or frustrated.

I know the only possible way I can accomplish this is to truly face and deal with my own personal judgmentalism. If I do not, all my efforts will be condescending and hurtful.

A witch HAS to heal herself first, and only then will the magick be pure enough to create the results.

[Fawzo]

Argonious,

I really like the way you put that. We gain so much understanding just from the practice of magick. It takes discipline, concentration, and a very clear unbiased mind to perceive and evaluate the reality of the situations around us. There is purpose in hardship. It gives us the chance to learn and grow. How will we deal with the chaos in life. We cannot condemn it, and we cannot prevent it. Too much stability, much less total stagnation, prevents growth. But we can "roll with the punches." We can turn and draw when necessary, and most importantly, we can learn when and how to tell the difference. This is Wisdom, who also teaches us that all our efforts without the wellspring of Love are empty and hollow.

This is well stated but one can achieve the same state of mind through a plethora of belief systems and practices without casting a single spell.

Would you say that magick is simply the use of thought forms? Everything we perceive in life is a thought form on some level.

One of the reasons I associate magick with the ego is when one persons magick spell can outdo another persons magick spell. If magick in these instances were "true" or "truth" another persons magick would not be able to have any effect on the original thought form or spell.

Some magick is just the use of natural laws (or thought forms) that the common person is unaware of. As science delves into these thought forms they no longer are considered to be magick but merely science. I think Reiki is falling into this category now.

One of the forms of magick which makes me chuckle is a Sidgil with the intent on stopping another person from invading some space or preforming some action. If all the Wiccan and Pagans on the planet climbed to the top of Mt. Olympus and created a Sidgil over the top of my keyboard to keep moi from posting here the rest of this week, unless I'm physically incapacitated I'll be spelling the word "because" wrong at least 20 times the rest of the week here until IE spell catches it lol.

[Himitsuko]

This is well stated but one can achieve the same state of mind through a plethora of belief systems and practices without casting a single spell.

I don't at all disagree with this statement. The practice of magick is just one very small way to participate in one's universe. Not every method appeals to every person. I believe that religious diversity exists precisely so that the Divine can reach people of all cultures and personalities.

I wouldn't say that magick is simply thought forms. Magick is the tool by which we take mere thought form and manifest it in a useful and productive way. And truth be told, you can be a pretty active witch without actually "casting" spells. If you want we can really delve into that idea because it's something that definitely begins to apply at the intermediate and advanced levels.

One of the reasons I associate magick with the ego is when one persons magick spell can outdo another persons magick spell. If magick in these instances were "true" or "truth" another persons magick would not be able to have any effect on the original thought form or spell.

We like to think of truth as completely black and white but this isn't necessarily so. Let's say my hubby has a friend that just doesn't really do right by him on a regular basis. She's going through a tough time or whatever, and she is taking out her frustrations on us. If he chooses to continue to give this person his time, attention, energy, and advice, there could be a whole bunch of competing truths. He may call his role, loyalty, and I may call it self-destructive, or enablement. Who is right. Who's truth is more true? Well, I guess that would likely depend on which of us you asked in that moment. Not to mentiion, the third party probably has a third truth that may also need to be contended with. A good witch knows that just because something is "true" doesn't mean its the only truth.

Now as for dueling magicks, this is not something I have ever truly encountered and so I probably can't speak well on it. The reason that I have never encountered this is because on the rare occasion that magick was actually called for, the witches I've always known simply got together and came up with a consensual solution. I have met some "dark" or "black" practitioners, however selfish people are rarely wise and their magick, while troublesome at times is rarely strong. Everyone else has the good sense to cooperate with eachother for the greater good.

[Fawzo]

I wouldn't say that magick is simply thought forms. Magick is the tool by which we take mere thought form and manifest it in a useful and productive way. And truth be told, you can be a pretty active witch without actually "casting" spells. If you want we can really delve into that idea because it's something that definitely begins to apply at the intermediate and advanced levels.

Ok let me take a minute to get my snorkel and flippers on and lets delve!

[SalemWitchChild]

.

Now as for dueling magicks, this is not something I have ever truly encountered and so I probably can't speak well on it. The reason that I have never encountered this is because on the rare occasion that magick was actually called for, the witches I've always known simply got together and came up with a consensual solution. I have met some "dark" or "black" practitioners, however selfish people are rarely wise and their magick, while troublesome at times is rarely strong. Everyone else has the good sense to cooperate with eachother for the greater good.

Unfortunately the coven I join up with sometimes has come across Dueling magics. Normally happens between covens when a younger member has a grudge or wants to prove themselves. It's easily dealt with but is a nuisance. Again only reason I've saw this happen is because a younger wants to prove themselves to the older and more experienced. Their simply not on the correct path when they do this. Each religion has its bad apples.