Pete

Dan your deluded about yourself. Rather egotistical I think.

I like that Dan. You insult people and its their fault.

Of course Dan can join any topic. I just wish it was just the topic. It seems that no matter what the topic is, be it EMC2 or the quality of ones whistling, this time atheism, it always ends up with Dan and his view on the bible or faith. I too have once beeen called an extreme pacifist. I am not, just that war or killing is not my preferred choice, but given no choice I would step up. One is a pacifist or not, there is no extreme. I am not one but I respect those that are. Now can go back to atheism please.

As I said the more you talk to Dan the more you get what we call nonsense and occasionally you get nastiness and some wish he would take a nap. This topic is about Atheism and not what he thinks of Jesus or what he has to say on gods behalf. I personally do not think Dan speaks on his gods behalf, more like Dan thinks he is god but does not want to admit.

And there you go again Dan. I checked page 1 and I did not bring you into the topic. However whatever.

I have met the mob often. You have to have a bit of let each to their own and do not care if they disagree. The more you take on Dan the more he will come back with what we see as more nonsense and people will support his right to say it or throw up a smoke screen. It is often just keeping the status quo on the forum. Just hang on to your own sanity and let it go. It ain't worth it.

Interesting how a topic about atheism has again become a topic about what Dan thinks. Whether we want it or not. I have experienced the straw man approach often but this is then supported by more straw men. Now where did I put those matches.

I think Respect and hate are two very different things. I got into a taxi the other night . The driver started to talk about Ramadan and how wonderful Islam is and would not stop talking even when I got to my destination. I do not respect his preaching to me . I never asked for it or wanted it but he was driving and you kinda do not want to get into a dispute with someone who has your journey and safety in his hands. I do not respect the man for this but then again I do not hate him.

I think in many ways religions of many sorts have received great privilege in society and have been adopted by it and allowed to speak for it. Take the UK and and even the USA for instance - no one in the event of national tragedy calls upon an atheist minister to talk to the bereaved even if many or those killed may have been atheists. I think that society has adopted religions into their norms. If I got up in the street and started shouting I may be arrested as a nuisance, but if I was preaching it is likely I would be treated with respect even if I was really a nuisance.

Welcome to the forum AustralisAquarii It is true that there is no evidence that says one religion or non religion has any better outcomes than any other. It becomes important to a persons recovery if the person feels that they are holistically supported. However, this does have difficulties with some religions who actively prevent treatments.

Each to our own way :- Encarta Dictionary- "worship [wúrship] verb (3rd person present singular worships, present participle worshipping, past and past participle worshipped) 1. transitive and intransitive verb treat somebody or something as deity: to treat somebody or something as divine and show respect by engaging in acts of prayer and devotion 2. intransitive verb take part in religious service: to take part in a religious service 3. transitive verb love somebody deeply: to love, admire, or respect somebody or something greatly and perhaps excessively or unquestioningly Microsoft® Encarta® 2007. © 1993-2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved." I guess I mean it in the third way. A sunrise or sunset and nature can be awe inspiring and a very spiritual experience.(imo). What others think is up to them.

If I do not believe in Life then I would not get up out of bed. I smile when I see the Sun, when I see a baby or a loved animal. I feel full of joy when I met with those I love or see a friend. I treasure my memories and have hopes and wishes in life. I treasure the beauty of nature. It may not be the kind that one does on their knees but I worship life. It is what makes the pains of my body and sorrows worth the bearing. Life can be wonderful. Just wish youth and life was longer.

One can worship life and the experience of life and those we share it with. No deity necessary (imo).

I just wondered. I saw what I thought was hideous when people left churches just because a woman was made a minister. I just wondered if this occurs in other faiths Also I thank you for your link. I think a lot of what I do as a Nurse would have been seen as magic in days gone by and hedge Witches did the healing in a village. I know that Florence Nightingale got the credit for Nursing but caring took place long before her.

Please forgive me. I know that I am not a Wiccan or a Witch but I ask because I want to know about a respected faith that many have. Is there a title that is non sexist? I mean a Wizard/Warlock seems to just refer to men. Wizard as I understand it means wise one and yet when I have been a Nurse most of my life and acknowledge in days gone by I may of been considered a Hedge Witch. I consider some Hedge WItches to be just as wise. Is Wizard or Warlock a sexist title? Can men and women be referred to as Witches? I ask out of curiosity and in full respect. Sorry if my question appears silly.

Hi Rick, I have attended the Quakers in the past but I cannot get to the meetings lately due to bad back pain issues. I like them as they never tell a person what to believe or that they should believe. The meetings are held in silence unless a person wants to say something short. There are members of many faiths and none faiths alike and all are welcome and take a role in running the church. A bit like the ULC in many ways or even the Unitarians.

“We have different cultures and religions, but we are brothers and we want to live in peace,” he said. “All of us, together: Muslims, Hindi, Catholics, Copts, Evangelicals, but brothers, children of the same God,” the Pope added. Pope Francis http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-washes-and-kisses-feet-of-muslim-hindu-and-christian-refugees-a6951771.html

There has been later research on patients that had the opposite findings which suggests to me there is no measurable affect at all. As for the mental health issue, there is much research and it points towards respecting people's faith because they help lead to the holistic support for a person. There is no research that points to people not getting treatment and getting success from prayer alone. Neither any research that shows that only Christianity has a beneficial affect. Buddhism has also been shown to have some support. Again this indicates that it is not the religion that brings about the healing or prayer but the person regaining a movement to self actualisation by using faith.

I found this interesting https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/faith-healing/ "The Evidence for Faith Healing There are lots of reports describing the emperor’s new clothes, but investigations consistently show he is naked. There is a good review of faith healing on Quackwatch. When faith healings have been diligently investigated by qualified doctors, they have found no evidence that the patients were actually helped in any objective sense. Even at Lourdes, the Catholic Church has only recognized 4 cures since 1978, out of 5 million people who seek healing there every year. There simply is no evidence that faith healing heals. Not what science considers evidence. And the true believers don’t value evidence or the scientific method: for them, belief is enough." also:- "Is Spirituality Helpful? A 1996 poll of 1,000 adults found that 79% believed that spiritual faith can help people recover from disease [19]. This idea is also popular among physicians. Although many studies have found associations between various measures of religiosity and health, no well-designed study has demonstrated that religious beliefs or prayer actually benefit health [20]. In fact, one well-designed study found just the opposite. The study involved patients whose progress was followed for nine months after discharge from a British hospital. They evaluated the outpatient records and the responses of 189 patients to questionnaires. the researchers concluded that the health status of patients with stronger spiritual beliefs were more than twice as likely to be unimproved or worse [21]. Although some studies have found that churchgoers tend to be healthier and to live longer than nonchurchgoers, church attendance itself is unlikely to be responsible for the difference [22]." Stephen Barrett, M.D. From http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/faith.html

Sorry - I see that now, I just got caught up with all the talk about faith healers.

TB will always be present in his body. Once you have it the bug remains but may not be active. If he was healed I would put it down to antibiotics or a respite rather than anything else.

Can you explain what you mean? Dan and Pastor Dave have opposite views and both are Christian. I am an agnostic (previously Christian). None of us are idiots. Unless your refering to the charging at lions bit. Then I agree with you.

Most services I have been too have been very emotionally charged affairs. People claim all sorts but reality hits later. I am aware that there are many people of differing faiths that claim prayer works but credible non religious research has no evidence that suggest prayer heals anyone except it is maybe comforting for the sufferer to feel others are thinking of them and they are not alone. You say about Russia being an atheist country but despite the old communists in power, religion continued. Russian Orthodoxy has flourished. There are many claims but few can be backed up with research conditions. Now I know you believe this but its up to you. I am not convinced. I am not insulted if someone prays for me. It is nice to be thought of kindly but the evidence of my life is that it does so very little in practice. There has never been a case where prayer helped an amputee grow another limb,

Pastor Dave, Not that I believe the bible but the verses do not say when and nor does it say anything beyond the disciples. However, your most welcome to pray to heal my pain and put it to the test. I have been promised healing since I was a child and I am now 61 and things are getting worse and not better. It is easy to push forward a few verses but that does not supply any evidence does it. Show me the evidence in numbers. Research shows that there is no more success in healing in Christianity than any other religion or non religion.. .

I believe that positive beliefs help. I awake with arthritic pain everyday now. Belief that life is still worth getting up for is a must. If I lie there things do not get better but they do get worse. If something helps a person see a thing positively I am sure it helps. My father died a short while ago (2yrs ago). The last words I am told he said was to tell everyone he loved them. JWs put out a lot of propaganda that people do not need blood transfusions and so he went unconscious and bled to death. I hope I am able to tell people I love them when I die. It is so positive. (imo).