cuchulain

Kind of like the snake handlers, isn't it? Well, the sad thing is this person is going to continue to think like this, and just believe they didn't have enough faith, you know?

How about, observer to those on the chart? That seems a pretty unique position to me.

That actually strikes me as the most reasonable opinion to be held by a Christian, Dan. I have often wondered how others mesh the end of the apostolic age with modern day miracles, I mean...if God is going to quit speaking to us and revealing himself to us, then he isn't going to show off either.

I certainly agree there is more to the issue scientifically. I don't know about the spiritual aspects, and that seems to remain my stance. There are unexplained things that happen, it just seems to me that too often people rush to the conclusion that it must be God simply because they lack the ability to understand at present. My mother is a somewhat spiritual person, though not exactly Christian, and she was the resident expert on hospice care at the V.A. hospital for years until they terminated that program. She wrote pamphlets, did lots of research independently, and she certainly believed there was something after life. So far as actual evidence, there is nothing beyond anecdotal that she could ever offer. Coming from someone with her particular background in research and study, I tend to believe there probably isn't any accredited evidence, beyond anecdotal. I certainly don't say this to debunk the idea that there might be something after life, or that weird things happen like this. I simply say that I have never seen evidence of such, and so do not believe myself at this time. In science, I don't know is a perfectly reasonable statement. It should be in everyday life as well.

Firstly, Pastor Dave...I hope you don't think I was simply out to disprove or quash your faith or anything. It seems as though you are responding with a"well how's this for proof then" kind of comment, so I just want to clarify that I watched the first video presented with an open mind and simply typed in some names from the video, and recognized them in the searches. Not trying to stir up hard feelings. As for the second video, it's not proof of anything. I can certainly appreciate the circumstances for the officer in question, but the fact that he was in the dumps, as he puts it, leaves him open to susceptibility. Beyond that, I would certainly not accept a single person's word for the fact that there is only one possible explanation and it must be God. Perhaps, perhaps not. Maybe there was an adult in the area that cried for help then fled the scene. That happens frequently. There is one possible explanation, and it didn't take very long to think up. When officers, or other people, approach the scene of an accident as such, I doubt seriously that they were looking around the scene when they could hear a baby crying in the car. They were most likely focused 110% on saving a child, and an adult whom they say they heard.(I say they, but since no other names were put forth, there is no way to verify other accounts which become hear say). It certainly does not seem far fetched to me that there could have been a person around yelling for help that left the scene, certainly seems more plausible than an angel told them. Just my opinion of course. Someone else is certainly allowed to think what they want, whether it be angels or anything else.

Interesting to me, how these first hand accounts always, or at least almost always, have some aspect that doesn't quite mesh. I have worked in hospitals, and never heard over the intercom "someone has arrived with a deadly heart attack" as the doctor claims. I have never heard of a patient being defibrilated more than 8 or 9 times at the most, though that is possible in extreme circumstances, I suppose. Also, maybe you should look up Jeff Markin, and then look up the Dr. Crandall scam...There is a nice picture of Jeff Markin, but they name him Dr. Crandall, who is at the 4th annual World Christian doctors network conference in Florida.

And, if you don't like any of the available flavors, you are free to invent your own, or abstain altogether.

It may be a flawed definition, but it's from the dictionary.

In reexamining my beliefs, I realize that this is ultimately what it boils down to. Is there any reasonable evidence for supernatural events happening? If there is no evidence for the supernatural, then clearly there is no evidence for any sort of deity. Supernatural is defined as some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature. Deity is defined as a god or goddess, divine character or nature, especially that of the Supreme being. Reasonable is defined as having sound judgement, fair and sensible, capable of reasoning, rational. So, I pose the question: Does anyone here have any reasonable evidence for supernatural happenings? I would consider a preponderance of anecdotal stories from reliable sources as evidence, meaning stories from people who haven't been diagnosed with some sort of mental disorder, or who don't clearly promote a specific agenda, and in numerous amounts. I personally have that "one" story from my own experience, and having had three friends with me as witnesses that it actually occurred, but whether or not the event was supernatural is undetermined by those of us with a sound mental background. The other person who was convinced it was supernatural later ended up in an institution, with the firm belief he was a werewolf, so for obvious reasons I disbelieve his accounting.

And in the end, if I were Christian, I would not be living my life forward, but rather in the present. It is in the here and now that Christians make or break their way into heaven, yes? What does it ultimately matter what revelations says, when compared with the belief that those events will come to pass? If I personally believed in the bible, I would try my best to follow the teachings, and the book in question would not be of consequence, since it is supposed to be a series of future events that have not happened yet. I guess I would boil it down by saying, live as the best Christian you can, not because of some possible horrible future fate if you don't, but because of the message within the rest of the bible, if that makes sense? I can certainly understand studying for the sake of interest, however. I have done that with many MANY things. Ah, useless knowledge, such a wonderful tool for trivia night.

From an external point of view, prophecy of any form and in any book would have to be specific in order to be deemed as true prophecy. I have done little research in the area myself, but every single piece I have viewed and heard translated and interpreted could be said to describe numerous events, at which point the prophecy becomes too vague. Just my opinion, of course. It still can be interesting to study.

Thank you Scott, and best wishes to you and your family as well. Happy Holidays.

I have been watching a lot of star trek deep space nine lately and you seem like you would really benefit from aquiring the rules of aquisition.

Much appreciated.

That sounds like an appreciable sentiment to me, Scott. My mother has COPD in the extreme, she has smoked since she was 13 and now is 61, she had to leave work because of it. Her O2 sats drop to the upper 70's simply from walking fifteen or so feet, and the doctors give her a 25% chance to live the next four years. They refuse to speculate on the shorter term for some reason. My aunt lives with my mom, and has struggled the last few years at trying to get my mom to do things that will extend her life just that much more, things like not having the grandkids over to visit as much, but my mom is at the point where she prefers quality over quantity. The only thing that might help her get around a little more would be a lung transplant, and we all know she is not a likely candidate for that without giving up the smokes, which she doesn't want to do. In the end, even if she gave up smoking and got the transplant, chances are good she wouldn't last very much longer anyway. She just lives as she always has.

I thank you for your response. I didn't have a clear intention when asking the question as to whether you were present or whether such an event occurred so I appreciate you including both responses.

I can respect that Songster. How do your beliefs handle someone who doesn't respect that sentiment, or perhaps is the antithesis of that sentiment? Say, someone who goes out with a machine gun and opens fire in a crowd? I am not asking out of disrespect, its just something I am legitimately curious about.

and is it really prophecy if it is vague enough that it could have happened at multiple points? If the bible had a prophecy about me specifically by name being born where I was born, and that came true, then I would consider the possibility that it could accurately predict things. But to say something like mankind will enter into a time of trouble...jeez, I guess it COULD be a little more vague, but I dunno. The same with other prophecies, they all seem to relegate the important details to the back burner, and put up a front of general attitudes and behaviors and conditions, things that happen all the time, even when the prophecies were written or spoken. I could say there will be a car wreck today, and it will be bad, and people will cry and wail about it. It will probably come true. That doesn't mean I actually predicted anything, it means I took a guess based on available information and pattern and it coincidentally happened.

It's only cherry picking at it's best, Pete. If the old testament is no longer relevant, as has been posited, then do we throw out the ten commandments as well? If not, it is demonstrably cherry picking. Either the entire book is infallible and good, or the old testament should not have been included. If the old testament has been fulfilled, why do people who claim this very thing use parts of it to justify their standards of morality and ignore other parts, or at the least claim that those other parts which are obviously evil and reprehensible to today's society no longer apply? If one piece of the old testament applies then it all should, including the parts about stoning people, like stoning women if they come to a marriage non virgin, or stoning children who curse their parents. Yet any reasonable person can view this as what it is, evil, and not engage in such conduct. I cannot fathom why people place so much emphasis on the wonders of the bible which was written thousands of years ago by people who had limited concepts of morality.

again, my force field is invincible...no, I have a ray gun that beats invincible force fields...and in the end, nothing more substantive than that is said.

ppssssstttttt.....it's the Druid's standard, Keystrikr.....just so ya know....

How old do you think the brides in the bible were, Obededom? I bet some of them were under 18...just saying. And slavery? That was good to go in the bible too, wasn't it? If man cannot form a basis for morality because he is sinful, then he cannot determine right from wrong. He cannot determine whether the bible was INSPIRED by God, or the Devil, or just made up by some people, now can he? Because he isn't capable of determining, right? That was what you wrote, yes?

I can dig that, and agree. I don't think living with mystery takes that much adjustment. What is, is. It's all about how we respond to that mystery, whether we take it as negative or try to find the positive, as the stoics might say. At least some people can admit to faith though I was starting to wonder whether I would encounter any more who could.

If man cannot determine the truth, then how can man determine whether the bible is true?

He's just trolling, Pete. Just trolling...