Jonathan H. B. Lobl

Amazing. Just amazing. I will not be provoked.

Gotham is slang for New York City. 😄

Assertions do not make it so. There is no proof outside of Scripture that he existed. Then again, if the story of this over whelming popularity is true -- how come the Romans had to bribe Judas -- just to point him out? Seriously -- you can't have it both ways.

Ask any rabbi what Psalm 22 is about. The answer will disappoint you.

You know nothing about my concerns. You know nothing about what I know. It is God that I don't care about --and I'm done arguing metaphysics. It doesn't matter to me. Neither are your beliefs of any concern to me. I don't care what you believe. You are not my problem. As usual, you see no point of view except your own. I will not be provoked.

1. Why would I be in quagmire? It's your problem. Not mine. Do you think I care, about what your God wants? 2. What a great reason not to care. If it mattered to your God, we would have that capacity. 2.1 Speak for yourself. 3. In ancient Greece, they had a slightly different lament. "The gods use us for their sport." Maybe you find that comforting -- plaything of your god. Perhaps you will be thrown overboard, like Jonah; or covered in boils, like Job. Possibly thrown to the lions, for the amusement of the Romans -- and God.

It was Aron Ra who noted that -- future archaeologists might dig up New York City. That still wouldn't prove that Spiderman was real. On a related note, there are elements of New York City in the original Planet of the Apes movies. Batman operates out of "Gotham". Of course, the Bible mentions real places. Most works of fiction name real places.

It's a standard statement. So, where does this leave us? It can't be defined. It can't be understood by a finite mind. It's existence can't possibly matter.

You still can't tell the difference between non-belief and dis-belief. It's a simple enough distinction, but you obviously don't care, so I will let it go; rather than get sucked into an endless argument. You can't define God. You can't define God's properties -- and you want me to disprove God's existence. If you could prove that a god existed, you still wouldn't have proof that it was your God that existed. And you want me to disprove your God's existence. So much heat, over something so trivial. This is why I've moved onto Apatheism. Because it doesn't matter whether or not God exists. Not even whether or not your God exists. (distinct from all the other versions) Before you dash off your Scriptural wisdom in response -- try to remember -- I've read the Book.

I expect there were any number of preachers and miracle men, who had their stories merge over the years. There were also the factional conflicts between the Peter and Paul movements. There were also the political manipulations on the part of the Roman government, who found it expedient to have a pacifist movement. And the political expediency of various groups, who found it politic, to blame the death of Jesus on Jews, rather than the Roman government. And the new Church, that enjoyed political power from Constantine, over the other movements. They did extensive rewrites and suppression. The truth of what actually happened, has been lost to us. Between the pious fraud, the political manipulation and confusion, the mistakes, bad copies, translation errors, etc. -- the truth has been lost.

You continue to misrepresent Atheism. Nobody has to disprove the existence of God -- or Spiderman -- or Thor -- or Little Red Riding Hood -- or Dracula -- or Peter Pan -- or the Tooth Fairy. By all means. Embrace your personal truth -- by Faith. Nobody is stopping you. Maybe you noticed. I stopped asking for evidence.

So long as you're having fun. It seems to me that Songster is doing more to destroy Christian faith than you are.

Such wonderful consistency. The very flower of Christianity. Keep up the good work.

Breath deeply and relax. I know. You are trying to argue reason and evidence with people who care only about faith. There is nothing to be gained by letting it get to you.

For these stories to be meaningful, they must be plausible. So, the Crucifixion takes place, the tombs open and the zombies start walking about among the living. Just a normal day in Jerusalem. No source outside of Scripture thought it was worth mentioning. Nobody noticed the zombies? There was no investigation? Nobody wrote about it? Nobody thought to bring in the military to restore order? No panic?

An interesting response. How very Christian of you.

You mean the all powerful God? The one without limits of time and space? That God? The all good God? Not worth his time?

Yes. Just so.

You continue to misunderstand me. My position in these matters has evolved. I said I didn't know. I got arguments. I said I didn't believe. I got arguments. Well, now I don't care. Go ahead and argue. Hopeless is not a factor. I'm tired of arguing. As to the finality of death. Life is short. Too short to waste on silly arguments, about something so trivial as God.

My inability to understand God, is not a wonderful argument. At this point, I am beyond silly arguments about God's existence or non-existence. At this point, I need a reason to care. I don't care.

In this story, very little is plausible.

Or -- it never happened.

My computer has been off line for a few weeks. I'm back. You are arguing with people who only care about faith. Not reason. Not evidence. Not facts. Not external reality. Only faith. Nothing good will come of this. For your own sake, I urge you to let it go.

And there we are. We can't prove that God exists. We can't prove that God does not exist. That leaves us with -- So what?

Since God is not knowable to the finite mind -- then God is not knowable. God is also irrelevant and without meaning. For what little it's worth, I was ordained as a minister by the Apathetic Agnostic Church. (02/20/2002). The Church motto is -- "We don't know and we don't care." You don't get to define Agnostics, to Agnostics. It's rude and it's irritating. Drag files here to attach, or choose files... Accepted file types gif, jpeg, jpe, jpg, png · Max total size 0.49MB Insert other media