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I doubt enlightenment is state I'll ever reach because I'm stuck at pissed off when I'm feeling anything. I'm told that I'm a positive influence on people, a leader but my outlook is dictated by reality which sucks for the vast majority. Interesting video.

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To me, most people who were considered enlightened were leading by example while others were following along or taking notes.

Actions usually lead somewhere and most people are at least capable of making good decisions and some make those good decisions despite the obvious consequences. Following a good example usually leads to good thing too. Taking notes usually leads to a book no one wants to publish or let alone read.

 

"Lead, follow or get out of the way."

 

Having said that, I got notes to go over to see where I screwed up last night installing Gitea.

 

:bye:

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2 hours ago, John said:

To me, most people who were considered enlightened were leading by example while others were following along or taking notes.

Actions usually lead somewhere and most people are at least capable of making good decisions and some make those good decisions despite the obvious consequences. Following a good example usually leads to good thing too. Taking notes usually leads to a book no one wants to publish or let alone read.

 

"Lead, follow or get out of the way."

 

Having said that, I got notes to go over to see where I screwed up last night installing Gitea.

 

:bye:

 

 

There is an old joke about scripture.  That we can't possibly understand it, unless we are at the level of the people who wrote it.  If we have that level of understanding, we don't need the book.

 

:birgits_giggle:

 

Think of what happens when a country has too many lawyers.  The law gets overly complicated.  I think something similar applies to religion.  We have too many seminaries, producing people with advanced degrees in religion.  Of course, the religion gets complicated.

 

:birgits_giggle:

 

I think that a religion that focuses more on meditation than study, will produce less mayhem and confusion.

 

:bye:

 

 

 

 

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The economics of an advance degrees has always favored the individual who skipped it and went straight to work. Even before it cost an arm, a leg and your first born to get one.

 

Hierarchy is usually not meant to lift individuals up but keep those at the top in control of those below. Ever notice how those we look to as examples of enlightenment were usually not looking down their nose at anyone? 

 

Not sure meditation leads to less mayhem. I see meditation as the practice of being aware of one's own thoughts and the accompanying emotions and I'm pretty sure that's how every revolution starts. Give the people enough time to think about how they feel and they'll see the rat race for what it is.

 

:thumbu:

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59 minutes ago, John said:

The economics of an advance degrees has always favored the individual who skipped it and went straight to work. Even before it cost an arm, a leg and your first born to get one.

 

Hierarchy is usually not meant to lift individuals up but keep those at the top in control of those below. Ever notice how those we look to as examples of enlightenment were usually not looking down their nose at anyone? 

 

Not sure meditation leads to less mayhem. I see meditation as the practice of being aware of one's own thoughts and the accompanying emotions and I'm pretty sure that's how every revolution starts. Give the people enough time to think about how they feel and they'll see the rat race for what it is.

 

:thumbu:

 

 

I don't want to limit meditation, by trying to define it.  In loose terms, it's an experience.  Some things can only be herd in silence.

 

:bye:

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11 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

Think of what happens when a country has too many lawyers.  The law gets overly complicated.  I think something similar applies to religion.  We have too many seminaries, producing people with advanced degrees in religion.  Of course, the religion gets complicated.

 

I think that a religion that focuses more on meditation than study, will produce less mayhem and confusion.

 

 

Well, finally found something we can agree on... :)

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11 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

I don't want to limit meditation, by trying to define it.  In loose terms, it's an experience.  Some things can only be herd in silence.

 

:bye:

 

I'll have share that one with my friends. It brought a smile to my face way earlier than normal.

 

:coffee:

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Most of my meditation has been of the mindfulness sort found in various cognitive behavioral therapies as you might be able to guess from my definition. I did find mindfulness meditation rather confusing till I did it with others.

 

I have a friend, who's a practicing Buddhist of 3 or 4 decades, I do enjoy when he leads meditation. However, I sit quietly by myself ... It's called a nap. It's usually refreshing too. 

 

:bye:

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1 hour ago, John said:

Most of my meditation has been of the mindfulness sort found in various cognitive behavioral therapies as you might be able to guess from my definition. I did find mindfulness meditation rather confusing till I did it with others.

 

I have a friend, who's a practicing Buddhist of 3 or 4 decades, I do enjoy when he leads meditation. However, I sit quietly by myself ... It's called a nap. It's usually refreshing too. 

 

:bye:

 

 

Mindfulness is good.  Mindfulness is powerful.  I prefer breathwork.  

 

:D 

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1 hour ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

Mindfulness is good.  Mindfulness is powerful.  I prefer breathwork.  

 

:D 

 

Yes, I done the breathwork too and prefer it to thoughts and feelings. Breathing I can do, how I feel is anyone's guess. My buddy does the breathwork and is a great guide.

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47 minutes ago, John said:

 

 

Yes, I done the breathwork too and prefer it to thoughts and feelings. Breathing I can do, how I feel is anyone's guess. My buddy does the breathwork and is a great guide.

 

 

In that case, a little humor.          :birgits_giggle:

 

A young Buddhist monk was deep in meditation.  Buddha appeared before him.  In shock, the monk ran to get his teacher.  "Teacher, Teacher.  I was deep in meditation and Buddha appeared before me!"

 

The teacher was a kind man who smiled gently.  "Go back and continue counting your breath.  Don't worry.  He'll go away."

 

:birgits_giggle:

 

 

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Besides being funny, the story makes a point.  In Buddhism, the supernatural is a mere distraction on the Path.  But what is Enlightenment?  I find the idea hard to pin down.  I'm sure that it's not about the lights coming on and everything after that is different.  But what is it?

 

:meeting:

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6 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

[...] what is Enlightenment?  I find the idea hard to pin down.  I'm sure that it's not about the lights coming on and everything after that is different.  But what is it?

 

:meeting:

 

Why are you so sure? Isn't that exactly what it's supposed to mean...?

 

:coffee:

 

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31 minutes ago, RevBogovac said:

 

Why are you so sure? Isn't that exactly what it's supposed to mean...?

 

:coffee:

 

 

 

If that were so, it would be possible to tell the Enlightened Masters apart from everyone else.    This does not seem to be the case.  To me, it seems more likely that the quest for Enlightenment is itself illusory.  That is -- trying to become something that does not exist in reality.  By any terms, a fantasy.  

 

:meeting:          :umbrella:

 

 

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Just now, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

If that were so, it would be possible to tell the Enlightened Masters apart from everyone else.    This does not seem to be the case.  To me, it seems more likely that the quest for Enlightenment is itself illusory.  That is -- trying to become something that does not exist in reality.  By any terms, a fantasy.  

 

:meeting:          :umbrella:

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Besides being funny, the story makes a point.  In Buddhism, the supernatural is a mere distraction on the Path.  But what is Enlightenment?  I find the idea hard to pin down.  I'm sure that it's not about the lights coming on and everything after that is different.  But what is it?

 

:meeting:

 

Are you asking the right question? We're flooded with information these days. So we sometimes forget, all the information in the world is totally useless if we are not asking the right question. What is enlightenment? That's not an actionable question. It's a scholarly question, one could spend a lifetime asking. I get the feeling you're already well read on the subject. So ask a question that leads you somewhere? Look to those around you, what would Buddha do? We don't tend to remember the scholars, we remember the people who made a difference in the world. Buddha is still relevant go on 2,600 years? He must've done a lot more than sit around with his buddies asking, "What's enlightenment?" He made an impression that's out lived him by a couple of millenniums.

 

The right questions can change the world. The decisions made determine whether or not it's for the better.

 

:bye:

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