The Actions Of Two People

[Pete]

Dan we have a different idea of righteousness. No where does it say anything about castration and burning a daughter is hardly just (imo). I think your deliberately ignoring the viciousness of it. It is not the actions of a civilised person and hardly fitting of a just God. No wonder people come to the conclusion that the God of the OT is different from the NT (imo).

[Atwater Vitki]

Dan, Pete?

The discourse on Christianity vs. Islam has been very educational and informative as to your personal views the subject. May I ask how that applies to Dianna's initial query in post #1? It seemed to me it was very upsetting to her to have her good friend, a Rational Hedonist, not only pass away, but then have to deal the wishes of the person's religious family for the funeral instead of the last wishes of her friend.

It seems that in the end everything worked out for funeral, but I am curious how you guys connect your insightful bantering to the topic? Ju-u-u-u-ust curious is all!

Blessings of Peace,

Al

[Pete]

AV I understand the confusion but if you read post 1 of the topic it will become clear.

[Atwater Vitki]

Thanks Pete...I now see where you guys got the idea.

Blessings Be,

[RevTom]

I've been trying to come here more often and I enjoy reading the different posts and points of view. As I've said before, I truly value being able to question something that seems illogical (especially when I realize I'm not the only one) in order to get feedback and input from people from all walks, without being branded as threatening or insightful.

As I was reading Dan's post about who controls the weather, and one of Fawzo's responses, it mirrored something I'd written down in a super-rough draft just days ago while reading something in preparation for a funeral.

I could have responded to Fawzo on Dan's thread, but out of respect, I really don't want to take things off-topic, so as a refresher:

This was something I wrote just days ago, in response to what I'd wanted to say to some Christians who had ticked me off, but I knew it'd turn into an argument, and as long as what they believe doesn't interfere with what I do, I stay out of other people's beliefs. Although I make a living doing public speaking and teaching Rational Hedonism, this isn't even well thought out and sloppily written. So, I'm apologizing in advance, it was really just the way my mind was trying to work out the things they had said and never was meant to be seen unless it had been worked out better.

Anyway, after my super long intro, this was what I wrote before the topic was raised here and I'm glad I'm not the only one who has trouble with it.

I’m having trouble with sin.

Even the Bible says, after god created the world and all that was in it, it was good. When he finished creating man, he said it was very good. He was happy with it. Even with man and woman.

So just because he said, all this I give you, but whatever you do, don’t eat from that pomegranate tree. And the bottom line was, they did. Not sure if the whole sin was because they’d used their free, independent nature he’d given them to do something he said not to, or that they’d eaten to have their eyes opened and become like him. So he curses them – not only just them, that did the “bad thing”, not just their children and grandchildren.

Everybody.

Forever.

Why didn’t he just squash the two of them like bugs right then and start over?

There is also the story that Adam had another woman before Eve, and she hadn’t worked out, so if that was true, he didn’t have trouble reworking things. Squash them like bus and start over.

Why punish their descendants thousands of years later?

It’s not like it’s a punishment anymore – we’re too far removed, and many don’t even connect with an Adam and Eve story anyway.

And then, he “floods the earth” and kills everyone (supposedly), including all of the animals that weren’t on his ship – which was a good 99.99% of them – because the people had gotten so bad, so wicked that … he kills them.

Now why didn’t he do that when they first screwed up? Why wait until so many years later when kids’ kids have great grandkids? If you know the future, know Adam and Eve messed it up, that you were going to have to destroy the world with a flood, and now, kill thousands and more instead of just two?

All of that, based on the “sin” of two people. People who’d just been popped into existence, and easy to unpop. Just next time when you put Adam to sleep, instead of removing a rib, keep him asleep. It wouldn’t have had to be painful.

So if there hadn’t been that sin, if there WAS that sin, there’d be no need for a Savior, a Redeemer from sins and the never-ending punishment no one even remembers from what. What if Jesus had come with all his wisdom and heavenly understanding and kindness, and not had the expectation of a Messiah, had not become the whole sun/son which all the religions that followed orbited, had not been the reason for conquering in his name and the name of his church, had not seen thousands martyred or slaughtered in holy wars, pogroms, holocausts, Inquisitions because of his name.

What if he’d just been a nice guy like Buddha or Baha’i, Gandhi or the Dalai Lama?

Think of all the dead who’d never been killed, their descendants who lived.

The Peace.

I don't think there would ever be a universe or state of being where humankind will remain stagnant and satisfied to gaze upon the distant hill without wanting to venture there. This is one of the facets where I differ from mainstream Christianity in thought. An unquenchable hunger to go beyond the normal trodden paths is an indelible part of the human psyche. It is what has produced miraculous discoveries and inventions, and is what has spurred us on to new frontiers. To deny this yearning would be to snuff a very large part of our nature. I don't believe a rational Spiritual Path will seek to quench this yearning. The only thing we must remember is that for each course of action there is a consequence; not one of punishment, not one of retribution, but the way that all nature, mankind, and the universe interweaves and affects each part. We are all part of that tapestry...