Is the death penalty morally right?

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, damnthing said:

I'm confused, the discussion is whether or not the death sentence is morally right yet it's being bogged down by (if you'll excuse me) silly ass quoting from some mythology text book (or as I just saw it, The Goat Herder's Guide to the Galaxy). This discussion appears to be guided by some very specific Christian viewpoint which, while it may have had some relevance longtime past in developing laws with which to govern, to continue to insist that they hold some relevance today suggests either some intellectual disability or yet more magical thinking and woo

 

 

In matters of ethics and morality -- the Bible continues to influence the thinking of many.  Not you.  Not me.  Not Pete.  But many.  For better or worse, the Bible --  The goat herder's guide to the Galaxy -- is not going to go away.  If we debate ethics while ignoring the Bible -- we are ignoring the Bible's lingering cultural influence.  I don't like it either -- but the Bible is a major cultural influence.  We have to confront the Bible, if we are to deal with invisible assumptions.  Of course, when arguing with believers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dan56]

7 hours ago, damnthing said:

I'm confused, the discussion is whether or not the death sentence is morally right yet it's being bogged down by (if you'll excuse me) silly ass quoting from some mythology text book (or as I just saw it, The Goat Herder's Guide to the Galaxy). This discussion appears to be guided by some very specific Christian viewpoint which, while it may have had some relevance longtime past in developing laws with which to govern, to continue to insist that they hold some relevance today suggests either some intellectual disability or yet more magical thinking and woo

 

Most of the opinions here are anti-death penalty, so I don't see how the discussion is being bogged down by a single Christian point of view? Remember the opening post; "I have met Christians who believe in the death penalty and others who feel in an advanced civil society it is morally wrong. I am asking all viewpoints".  I would not have posted if I had known this was another anti-Christian thread. You need not agree, but its senseless to denigrate a belief that you detest, it kind of removes the "Universal" from ULC.. Its fine with me if your convinced that pacifism is the best way to combat violent murderers, but I am allowed to decent from popular opinion.

 

Its true that ancient goat herders didn't kiss a person who murdered their family or hug a person who raped their wives. But consider that it wasn't so much an 'intellectual disability', but rather that things like that just upset them and they wanted to stop it from happening. Your desire to shower killers with kindness, compassion, and understanding is as illogical to me as my point of view is to you, mainly because it omits any concern for the victims of violent crimes. I will now tap-out of this thread too, as it seems only one opinion is acceptable. Just a wild guess, but I'd assume you have no problem killing a baby 2 minutes prior to birth? And you think my line of reasoning is inconsistent!

[Pete]

The ones I worked on rehabilitation had done 15yrs in prison before they came to us. The discipline was strict but after 4 yrs rehab they then returned to the community.  Most with a job and a flat. The rule was don't break the law in any way unless you want to back to prison for another 15yrs.  I would not call it showering with kindness. More like giving a second chance in life. As I said many had known huge poverty and abuse. Why not just kill them? 

Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those trespass against us. 

Remember that line.

[damnthing]

9 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

Most of the opinions here are anti-death penalty, so I don't see how the discussion is being bogged down by a single Christian point of view? Remember the opening post; "I have met Christians who believe in the death penalty and others who feel in an advanced civil society it is morally wrong. I am asking all viewpoints".  I would not have posted if I had known this was another anti-Christian thread. You need not agree, but its senseless to denigrate a belief that you detest, it kind of removes the "Universal" from ULC.. Its fine with me if your convinced that pacifism is the best way to combat violent murderers, but I am allowed to decent from popular opinion.

 

Its true that ancient goat herders didn't kiss a person who murdered their family or hug a person who raped their wives. But consider that it wasn't so much an 'intellectual disability', but rather that things like that just upset them and they wanted to stop it from happening. Your desire to shower killers with kindness, compassion, and understanding is as illogical to me as my point of view is to you, mainly because it omits any concern for the victims of violent crimes. I will now tap-out of this thread too, as it seems only one opinion is acceptable. Just a wild guess, but I'd assume you have no problem killing a baby 2 minutes prior to birth? And you think my line of reasoning is inconsistent!

I think 'religion' here is a very thin slice. You read my viewpoint  and declared it void because you don't like my tone.

 

As for 'senseless to denigrate a belief...', well as I see it, your particular viewpoint IS a problem. You just quote one line of dialogue after another and essentially spout an opinion that belongs to others. You don't have an opinion other than what 'preachers' have told you to have.

 

Interesting too that you have somehow come to the conclusion that I'm a pacifist. I served out country, have had a CCW for over 30 years, practiced regularly and would have easily used it in defense of myself, family, even strangers. So see you're not nearly as clever as you think you are.

 

As for 'tapping out', well that's your choice and probably for the best as you only spout dialogue to support your holier-than-thou position.

 

I especially like your closing paragraph where you get to put in all those nice, thinly veiled insults (so much for being nice here, huh?).  The part where you accuse me (or Pete?) of showering killers with kindness, I hadn't picked up on that but I'm sure it comes across that way to you because you've made it clear you believe in killing but, didn't your jesus teach the opposite? I kinda thought xtianity was about forgiveness, loving one another, etc etc and let the judging and sentencing up to god? Or do you subscribe to a more...bloodthirsty and revenge seeking god? And you also see to only be in favor of retribution rather than forgiveness so I guess that makes you more of a jewish vengeful god rather than a loving and compassionate jesus.  god complex much?

 

And finally, the jab about killing a baby two minutes before birth? That is where you end up, at the most extreme, most illogical, most....egregious example of who you are and what you believe, as we all know,  women will just randomly decide to kill their baby just before it crowns. The fact that you would say that suggests, along with all your other issues, that misogyny is big on your list. Your comment is a perfect summation of why you and people like you are so troublesome and disturbed. Your 'religion' tends to fill you with hate and that comes from, not your GHGttG book but from the people that taught you. Hate begets hate and you clearly seem like someone who doesn't, can't and was never loved (at least in a good way) and for that...well maybe you'll do better next incarnation (hopefully in a higher life-form that you are presently)

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

9 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

Most of the opinions here are anti-death penalty, so I don't see how the discussion is being bogged down by a single Christian point of view? Remember the opening post; "I have met Christians who believe in the death penalty and others who feel in an advanced civil society it is morally wrong. I am asking all viewpoints".  I would not have posted if I had known this was another anti-Christian thread. You need not agree, but its senseless to denigrate a belief that you detest, it kind of removes the "Universal" from ULC.. Its fine with me if your convinced that pacifism is the best way to combat violent murderers, but I am allowed to decent from popular opinion.

 

Its true that ancient goat herders didn't kiss a person who murdered their family or hug a person who raped their wives. But consider that it wasn't so much an 'intellectual disability', but rather that things like that just upset them and they wanted to stop it from happening. Your desire to shower killers with kindness, compassion, and understanding is as illogical to me as my point of view is to you, mainly because it omits any concern for the victims of violent crimes. I will now tap-out of this thread too, as it seems only one opinion is acceptable. Just a wild guess, but I'd assume you have no problem killing a baby 2 minutes prior to birth? And you think my line of reasoning is inconsistent!

 

 

Over the years, you have had much to say about Atheists, Agnostics, Humanists and Apatheists.  Much of it nasty and provocative.  You can dish it out with joy, but you can't take it.  When you don't respect the Secular, the Secular don't respect you.     

 

You are concerned with the Universal in ULC?  You?  How many times have you announced that your religion is right -- and all the other religions are wrong?     

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dan56]

5 hours ago, damnthing said:

As for 'tapping out', well that's your choice and probably for the best as you only spout dialogue to support your holier-than-thou position.

 

Just in addendum, my first post on page 1 just stated that I support the death penalty and why.. Nothing religious and no bible quotes.. In fact, it was others who quoted the bible in response.

 

4 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

How many times have you announced that your religion is right

 

And of course I think my belief is right, otherwise it would not be my faith and I'd choose another.

 

5 hours ago, damnthing said:

I served out country, have had a CCW for over 30 years, practiced regularly and would have easily used it in defense of myself, family, even strangers. So see you're not nearly as clever as you think you are.

 

So you would kill to defend your family, while simultaneously opposing the death penalty..... I see

 

I'll leave now and let you all discuss why mass killers should be coddled and given a second chance, all while proclaiming & explaining why your not extreme pacifist .. Excuse me for thinking that a first degree murder conviction is worthy of a death sentence, while an innocent near new born infant deserves life. 

[damnthing]

36 minutes ago, Dan56 said:

 

Just in addendum, my first post on page 1 just stated that I support the death penalty and why.. Nothing religious and no bible quotes.. In fact, it was others who quoted the bible in response.

 

 

And of course I think my belief is right, otherwise it would not be my faith and I'd choose another.

 

 

So you would kill to defend your family, while simultaneously opposing the death penalty..... I see

 

I'll leave now and let you all discuss why mass killers should be coddled and given a second chance, all while proclaiming & explaining why your not extreme pacifist .. Excuse me for thinking that a first degree murder conviction is worthy of a death sentence, while an innocent near new born infant deserves life. 

" I will now tap-out of this thread..." So I at least know you are not a man of your word, and I bet you're one of those that needs to have the last one as well.

I think  you 'religion' has clearly colored your world view, and not for the better.

 

You seem to think that you can be judge and jury and I bet it moves a bit for you when you think about being executioner too, right? And it was ONLY you who said (and made up) the nonsensical aborting a baby two minutes before it's born, and THEN you go on to get all righteous AND disingenuous about it. Ain't you a kick i the pants.

 

You seem to have misunderstood what my being against the death penalty was about, no surprise, those of you with such a lock on eternity have no real interest in what other peoples say or believe. My stand against it was...well I should make you go back and read it but I suspect even if, your comprehension skills might be a bit lacking so just for your benefit, I am against it because of the very real risk of an innocent person being executed. Curious but unsurprising you not only didn't seem to get that,  it doesn't seem to bother you so I guess you would likely have a bumpersticker on your pick up truck that says, 'Kill 'em all, let god sort it out'. amirite?

 

Naw you're lazy and arrogant and self absorbed, why else can you not follow a 6th grade reading level discussion. Clearly you are here to spout from your GHT and feel all superior because you have some stone age idea about what justice and compassion is. I think Pete pointed out earlier about people (prisoners) being able to change and become better people. That's not to say they should be released, only that their death sentence be commuted. It seems to square with your religion (well, the more present day version rather than your cave man one perhaps) but anyway, your god, your jesus talk about forgiviness, and justice, and compassion, and love, all the things that seem antithetical to your chosen delusion. Not surprised that those are the parts you avoid. You come off as a very empty person, maybe you should work harder at being the Christian you think are, we all have room for improvement, right?

[Pete]

Dan yes your missing the point. Preventing someone from further killing is self defence. When a person is no longer killing and then to rehabilitate after their sentence is a positive thing to do. You cannot equate the two. To kill when a person is no longer a risk is for me murder. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Pete

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, damnthing said:

" I will now tap-out of this thread..." So I at least know you are not a man of your word, and I bet you're one of those that needs to have the last one as well.

I think  you 'religion' has clearly colored your world view, and not for the better.

 

You seem to think that you can be judge and jury and I bet it moves a bit for you when you think about being executioner too, right? And it was ONLY you who said (and made up) the nonsensical aborting a baby two minutes before it's born, and THEN you go on to get all righteous AND disingenuous about it. Ain't you a kick i the pants.

 

You seem to have misunderstood what my being against the death penalty was about, no surprise, those of you with such a lock on eternity have no real interest in what other peoples say or believe. My stand against it was...well I should make you go back and read it but I suspect even if, your comprehension skills might be a bit lacking so just for your benefit, I am against it because of the very real risk of an innocent person being executed. Curious but unsurprising you not only didn't seem to get that,  it doesn't seem to bother you so I guess you would likely have a bumpersticker on your pick up truck that says, 'Kill 'em all, let god sort it out'. amirite?

 

Naw you're lazy and arrogant and self absorbed, why else can you not follow a 6th grade reading level discussion. Clearly you are here to spout from your GHT and feel all superior because you have some stone age idea about what justice and compassion is. I think Pete pointed out earlier about people (prisoners) being able to change and become better people. That's not to say they should be released, only that their death sentence be commuted. It seems to square with your religion (well, the more present day version rather than your cave man one perhaps) but anyway, your god, your jesus talk about forgiviness, and justice, and compassion, and love, all the things that seem antithetical to your chosen delusion. Not surprised that those are the parts you avoid. You come off as a very empty person, maybe you should work harder at being the Christian you think are, we all have room for improvement, right?

 

 

It's just Dan, being Dan.  You will find that neither reason nor facts will penetrate.  Also, that his double standard is many layered.  If you attack his beliefs, it is because you are closed minded.  Or you hate God -- Scripture -- etc.  When he attacks your position -- it's because he's right.  It's useless to engage.  You will find that Dan is reality impaired.  Also, the his mind is rigid, beyond what I thought was possible.

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[damnthing]

2 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

It's just Dan, being Dan.  You will find that neither reason nor facts will penetrate.  Also, that his double standard is many layered.  If you attack his beliefs, it is because you are closed minded.  Or you hate God -- Scripture -- etc.  When he attacks your position -- it's because he's right.  It's useless to engage.  You will find that Dan is reality impaired.  Also, the his mind is rigid, beyond what I thought was possible.

 

 

 

yeah no I get that, which is why I would never try to argue with him using his GHGG, people like him have spent years reading and studying the faerie tales.

But back to the discussion, I agree with Pete's position, that people can be rehabilitated and, achieving that means that they can spend the rest of their life, in prison, counseling others and working off their debt to society. On top of which, by eliminating capital punishment it eliminates any potential for executing an innocent person. I don't think any one here has advocated releasing prisons who have been incarcerated and sentenced to death, only that the death sentence isn't necessary. If if worked as a deterrent (as *some* suggest) then there really shouldn't be anyone on death row today  in the US. I think certain people just enjoy the idea of someone being executed for a crime they (may) have committed.  It just baffles me that someone can be so filled with hate for their fellow man that they can see no benefit, or purpose of rehabilitation, remorse and of course the perennial favorite, forgiveness (sigh...all of which again requires me to once again repeat that this does NOT mean prisoners released from death row are released, only that they no longer live under the threat of execution).

 

P.S. Maybe if we try hard enough, we can convert dan to a better life, and to be a better person 😉

Edited February 24, 2020 by damnthing

[Pete]

20 minutes ago, damnthing said:

yeah no I get that, which is why I would never try to argue with him using his GHGG, people like him have spent years reading and studying the faerie tales.

But back to the discussion, I agree with Pete's position, that people can be rehabilitated and, achieving that means that they can spend the rest of their life, in prison, counseling others and working off their debt to society. On top of which, by eliminating capital punishment it eliminates any potential for executing an innocent person. I don't think any one here has advocated releasing prisons who have been incarcerated and sentenced to death, only that the death sentence isn't necessary. If if worked as a deterrent (as *some* suggest) then there really shouldn't be anyone on death row today  in the US. I think certain people just enjoy the idea of someone being executed for a crime they (may) have committed.  It just baffles me that someone can be so filled with hate for their fellow man that they can see no benefit, or purpose of rehabilitation, remorse and of course the perennial favorite, forgiveness (sigh...all of which again requires me to once again repeat that this does NOT mean prisoners released from death row are released, only that they no longer live under the threat of execution).

 

P.S. Maybe if we try hard enough, we can convert dan to a better life, and to be a better person 😉

I have debated often with Dan and even if its the most foul deed possible like killing none virgin wifes in his book he will justify it as righteous. I just hope he is never in a position of authority as. I pity those under him.

A bit like the nurse in one flew over the cuckoo's nest mentality. Don't expect compassion if it conflicts with his interpretation of his book.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Pete

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

5 hours ago, Pete said:

I have debated often with Dan and even if its the most foul deed possible like killing none virgin wifes in his book he will justify it as righteous. I just hope he is never in a position of authority as. I pity those under him.

A bit like the nurse in one flew over the cuckoo's nest mentality. Don't expect compassion if it conflicts with his interpretation of his book.

 

 

Traditional Judaism has long recognized, that the Hebrew Scriptures can be a problem.  That is why they soften it, with Talmudic interpretation.  Dan drinks his poison straight.  You can see the results.  Some poisons need diluting.  Such is the Bible.  It's bad for the brain and bad for the heart.  At least, when taken straight.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

6 hours ago, damnthing said:

yeah no I get that, which is why I would never try to argue with him using his GHGG, people like him have spent years reading and studying the faerie tales.

But back to the discussion, I agree with Pete's position, that people can be rehabilitated and, achieving that means that they can spend the rest of their life, in prison, counseling others and working off their debt to society. On top of which, by eliminating capital punishment it eliminates any potential for executing an innocent person. I don't think any one here has advocated releasing prisons who have been incarcerated and sentenced to death, only that the death sentence isn't necessary. If if worked as a deterrent (as *some* suggest) then there really shouldn't be anyone on death row today  in the US. I think certain people just enjoy the idea of someone being executed for a crime they (may) have committed.  It just baffles me that someone can be so filled with hate for their fellow man that they can see no benefit, or purpose of rehabilitation, remorse and of course the perennial favorite, forgiveness (sigh...all of which again requires me to once again repeat that this does NOT mean prisoners released from death row are released, only that they no longer live under the threat of execution).

 

P.S. Maybe if we try hard enough, we can convert dan to a better life, and to be a better person 😉

 

 

People like Dan, forget the original meaning of prisons -- Penns --  was Pennetenceries.  Places of Pennence.  Then again, Dan has no use for nuance.  Any focus, other than punishment, is pacifism.  Also, "bleeding heart" liberals.  Of course, the original "bleeding heart" was Jesus.

 

You remember Jesus.  The man who would dine with sinners and the other despised of society.  The man that Dan takes for his example.  The man who could forgive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Pete]

I think there is something sad about a person who feels deviance from his beliefs deserves eternal punishment or hell or death. Then to have no feelings for them is somewhat psychopathic. If I believed as he does I would need to pray for all whether they believed or not. This world ain't easy and it is no surprises to me that some lose their compassion and humanity. One such person who committed murder had been brought up in isolation and prevented socialization with anyone but his parents who locked him a cupboard and his father used a rubber hose on him regularly and mother used to use a hot poker to burn him and he had burns all over his body. I guess as he killed twice Dan would of had him executed without a thought of mercy. I could not help but feel for him. It's a sh1t world for many people and they did not get the chances we have had or either that nature had been cruel to them in their development.. I have no regrets at trying  to help them. 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

I think there is something sad about a person who feels deviance from his beliefs deserves eternal punishment or hell or death. Then to have no feelings for them is somewhat psychopathic. If I believed as he does I would need to pray for all whether they believed or not. This world ain't easy and it is no surprises to me that some lose their compassion and humanity. One such person who committed murder had been brought up in isolation and prevented socialization with anyone but his parents who locked him a cupboard and his father used a rubber hose on him regularly and mother used to use a hot poker to burn him and he had burns all over his body. I guess as he killed twice Dan would of had him executed without a thought of mercy. I could not help but feel for him. It's a sh1t world for many people and they did not get the chances we have had or either that nature had been cruel to them in their development.. I have no regrets at trying  to help them. 

 

 

The God of infinite mercy and compassion, chose to not interfere.     

 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

On 2/23/2020 at 8:38 PM, damnthing said:

yeah no I get that, which is why I would never try to argue with him using his GHGG, people like him have spent years reading and studying the faerie tales.

But back to the discussion, I agree with Pete's position, that people can be rehabilitated and, achieving that means that they can spend the rest of their life, in prison, counseling others and working off their debt to society. On top of which, by eliminating capital punishment it eliminates any potential for executing an innocent person. I don't think any one here has advocated releasing prisons who have been incarcerated and sentenced to death, only that the death sentence isn't necessary. If if worked as a deterrent (as *some* suggest) then there really shouldn't be anyone on death row today  in the US. I think certain people just enjoy the idea of someone being executed for a crime they (may) have committed.  It just baffles me that someone can be so filled with hate for their fellow man that they can see no benefit, or purpose of rehabilitation, remorse and of course the perennial favorite, forgiveness (sigh...all of which again requires me to once again repeat that this does NOT mean prisoners released from death row are released, only that they no longer live under the threat of execution).

 

P.S. Maybe if we try hard enough, we can convert dan to a better life, and to be a better person 😉

 

 

 

No.  Even in fantasy, Dan's faith is impossible to change.  He will never change.  It is absurd, even to contemplate.

 

You will find that Dan has gone to great length, to protect his mind from us.  Below, is the Scripture that Dan would choose, if we had put the question to him.  I say this with great confidence.  Dan is so very predictable.

 

 

 

Ephesians 6:10-18 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

¹⁰ Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. ¹¹ Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. ¹² For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. ¹³ Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. ¹⁴ Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; ¹⁵ and your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; ¹⁶ above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. ¹⁷ And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: ¹⁸ praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

 

Dan thinks that we don't understand him.  He is not complicated.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[damnthing]

Well it seems to me that trying to 'debate' Dan on his terms is a flat out losing battle. I really don't care what his faith tells him, I won't argue with him based on that, it's a no-win proposition. As far as I'm concerned his arguments (and he) are all tautological. Only way to win is to dismiss his pale, dusty, Goat Herder tales. But come on, if we try really, really hard we can either win him over to the light side or cause that aneurysm to burst. Win-win either way 😉

Edited February 26, 2020 by damnthing

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

59 minutes ago, damnthing said:

1.  Well it seems to me that trying to 'debate' Dan on his terms is a flat out losing battle. I really don't care what his faith tells him, I won't argue with him based on that, it's a no-win proposition. As far as I'm concerned his arguments (and he) are all tautological. Only way to win is to dismiss his pale, dusty, Goat Herder tales. But come on, if we try really, really hard we can either win him over to the light side or cause that aneurysm to burst.      2.   Win-win either way 😉

 

 

1.  Dan has already said -- in so many words -- that no part of the Bible has ever been proven wrong.  Nor can any part of the Bible be proven wrong.  So, yes.  Arguing with Dan is futile and useless.

 

2.  Not really.  You wouldn't ask a man with advanced arthritis, to do gymnastics.  Dan has a stiff, rigid mind.  He's not evil.  There are some things -- like rational thought -- that are beyond him.

 

In keeping with this thread on the death penalty -- Just because Dan is reality impaired -- does not mean that he deserves to die.  I know.  He's irritating to the point of being an affliction.  Dan still has not earned the death penalty.

 

 

One thing more.  I don't know who said it.  Never try to teach a pig to sing.  The attempt is doomed to fail, and it annoys the pig.

 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Pete]

I know this is the monotheist section and Dan can speak about his faith here but a problem I get is qoutes like archeology does support the bible. The fact that a place may of existed does not prove anything happened there. Secondly there are loads of fundamental so called archeologists roaming Isreal and claiming all sorts. It's like they find a foot print in the sand and declare it as proof Jesus walked there. It is not scientific research. It's just trying to support their own beliefs. That to me is not archeology and it's just fantasy.  Another qoute is history does not contradict the bible. History cannot even prove Jesus existed so let's not say history supports the bible. It doesn't. 

Then there is the justification of every heinous deed in the bible as being God's indignation against sin. For me no God who supports torture, slavery, stoning and burning people is worthy of worship. That may of convinced ancient man but it has no place in modern society.  

[damnthing]

4 hours ago, Pete said:

I know this is the monotheist section and Dan can speak about his faith here

The problem is, it turned into him making a fatuous comment about 2 minutes before birth abortions, referring to all who opposed his opinion as pacifists who would kiss murders. That's not exactly quoting the GHG, it is one person's arrogance that strongly suggests he knows the mind of god and, I could be wrong here but doesn't the GHG somewhere state that no man knows the mind of god?

 

As for the death sentence, without even addressing the issue of whether it's or morally right or not, the strongest objection (and the only one I think that is really needed) is the very real risk of an innocent person being put to death. And I'm not talking about someone who didn't deserve the sentence, who had - according to sentencing guidelines - mitigating circumstances. I am talking about the totally innocent person, falsely charged, arrested and convicted, who was in no way involved in the crime but has been found guilty for any number of reasons; lack of, or manufactured, or constructed evidence, prosecutorial malfeasance, defense malfeasance, etc.

 

Near as I can find about .04% of prisoners given the death sentence are innocent. Now I know that some people will see that as a very small (and perhaps to them acceptable) number of people  but it works out to 1 in every 25 prisoners sentenced to death is innocent. For every 100 executions, 4 innocent people die. I don't see how anyone, of any religious stripe, could ever find that acceptable. Especially one who wholeheartedly opposed abortion as the murder of innocents. No one who opposes the later could possibly be in favor of the former, it would boggle the mind to think anyone could be both that blind and that hateful.

Edited February 26, 2020 by damnthing