Salvation for Fallen Humans & Fallen Angels (A Practical Guide)

[Key]

16 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

If God gives a prophet a vision, then the revelation is God's but transcribed by men. According to Christ, the Pharisee's were spreading their own traditions, and their own doctrine was self-serving, probably inspired by greed. "But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men" (Matthew 15:3&9).

 

Of course it was my own thoughts that accepted what I ultimately came to believe. But its not so much as aligning my beliefs with my thoughts, but altering my thoughts to conform with my belief. In other words, I can't align what Christ taught with what I think, I can only alter my thoughts to conform to his teachings. My own preferences or preconceptions are secondary to what the scriptures actually say and teach. The reason we probably have hundreds of denominations is because people alter their beliefs to conform to what they think.

 

 

Sure I do, I just don't see macro-evolution as a natural process as you do.. There's absolutely no evidence of it naturally happening via genetic mutation.

Further debate, then. How do we know it was truly God that gave them a vision, or even that the one recording was a prophet. Afterall, we'd only have their word for it. There are supposed "prophets" from various religions, and not just different sects of Christianity. Surely, you must acknowledge that there have been various individuals that have claimed a vision from God led them to "transcribe" or lead. That you do not accept them due to they not being "Christian" does not necessarily make them wrong, nor right. (God does choose whoever He wishes. Which can be seemingly odd, at times.) Some are well known, and others not so much.

 

As for conformity, that relies upon the use of preference and preconceptions. It is comparative analysis.

Absolutely, one can align what Christ, or anyone, for that matter, taught with what one thinks. That is interpretative comprehension. The very reason there are so many sects, or at least one of the reasons. 

[cuchulain]

21 hours ago, Child of God said:

 

I have witnessed many truths of the Holy Bible. I believe all the contents of the Bible to be true. I saw an apparition of Jesus when I was a 9 year old child. I have heard the voice of my Father God. I have seen the Holy Spirit. I bear witness to both fallen and heavenly angels. And, I have also seen and spoke with the dead.

 

I have written a testimony, if you care to read it,  True Story of Christ & Salvation .

 

I dont believe you.

[cuchulain]

36 minutes ago, Key said:

Further debate, then. How do we know it was truly God that gave them a vision, or even that the one recording was a prophet. Afterall, we'd only have their word for it. There are supposed "prophets" from various religions, and not just different sects of Christianity. Surely, you must acknowledge that there have been various individuals that have claimed a vision from God led them to "transcribe" or lead. That you do not accept them due to they not being "Christian" does not necessarily make them wrong, nor right. (God does choose whoever He wishes. Which can be seemingly odd, at times.) Some are well known, and others not so much.

 

As for conformity, that relies upon the use of preference and preconceptions. It is comparative analysis.

Absolutely, one can align what Christ, or anyone, for that matter, taught with what one thinks. That is interpretative comprehension. The very reason there are so many sects, or at least one of the reasons. 

Judge by the fruit.

 

The misinterpreted bible has caused enormous suffering.  God the all powerful and knowing could easily have given us all the knowledge in a much better way, but didn't.  The fruit of his alleged inspiration has been mass murder and bigotry.  Is gods fruit good?  If not, take the bibles advice and judge him accordingly.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, Child of God said:

 

You need not be so rash and condescending. Here are my thoughts on the Halo;

 

The Holy Spirit appears to be revealing to us through the Halo that He is the breath of life given to all mankind in the very beginning by God.

 

This is not to be confused with the life Christ gives us through the Spirit of truth.

 

Genesis 2:7. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

 

The term “Spirit” translates the Hebrew word ruah which in it’s primary sense, means breath, air, wind.

 

God gave man life through His Holy Spirit.

 

I believe that the breath of life went into man’s nostrils and is located over and throughout the brain giving us life. Hence, the Halo is over the head, representing the Holy Spirit giving us life. And without the breathe of life, the brain would not function and we would have no life in this world. The breath of life is connected to our spirits by the silver cord. When the silver cord is loosed, we are cut off from the breath of life, the brain dies, we become disconnected from our bodies, and are no longer part of this physical world.

 

Ecclesiastes 12:6-7. Remember your Creator before the silver cord is loosed, Or the golden bowl is broken, Or the pitcher shattered at the fountain, Or the wheel broken at the well. Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

 

I believe that the Halo would be the Holy Spirit’s rightful place in revealing to us that He is the breath of life given to all mankind in the very beginning by God. And thus the Halo does not have to be limited to Christianity.

 

 

Rash and Condescending?  I have trained in Therapeutic Touch, Reiki, Qi Gong and related disciplines.  I am well acquainted with the internal energy system, the chakras and yes.  The halo.  I generally prefer the term aura, but we needn't quibble on that point.

 

When you can speak of the halo, in the sacred arts of the other religious groups, I will be much more impressed by your knowledge.  You have only to look at the Sun Disc behind the head of Sekhmet; or the halos behind the heads of the various Hindu gods; or Buddhist icons.  The halo is as multicultural as anything gets -- and it is much bigger than Christianity.

 

 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

52 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

I dont believe you.

 

 

In fairness, I expect that Child of God is being sincere.  Not credible.  Not rational.  But sincere.

 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, cuchulain said:

Judge by the fruit.

 

The misinterpreted bible has caused enormous suffering.  God the all powerful and knowing could easily have given us all the knowledge in a much better way, but didn't.  The fruit of his alleged inspiration has been mass murder and bigotry.  Is gods fruit good?  If not, take the bibles advice and judge him accordingly.

 

 

Was the Bible misinterpreted?  The greater tragedy, is all the mayhem caused by correct interpretation.

 

God, the All Knowing, knew every interpretation before it was begun.  So, it must be correct.  They must all be correct.

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[cuchulain]

I'm still stuck on the title including the word practical in terms of angels and souls...there is no practice to base it on other than possible delusions.

[Child of God]

1 hour ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

Rash and Condescending?  I have trained in Therapeutic Touch, Reiki, Qi Gong and related disciplines.  I am well acquainted with the internal energy system, the chakras and yes.  The halo.  I generally prefer the term aura, but we needn't quibble on that point.

 

When you can speak of the halo, in the sacred arts of the other religious groups, I will be much more impressed by your knowledge.  You have only to look at the Sun Disc behind the head of Sekhmet; or the halos behind the heads of the various Hindu gods; or Buddhist icons.  The halo is as multicultural as anything gets -- and it is much bigger than Christianity.

 

 

 

 

Indeed, the Halo is "as multicultural as anything gets." But, the truth remains, the Halo is the same Christian Holy Spirit as He has always been. 

Edited March 19, 2019 by Child of God

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

16 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

I'm still stuck on the title including the word practical in terms of angels and souls...there is no practice to base it on other than possible delusions.

 

 

Perhaps, the poster meant practical in the sense of being useful.

 

As for delusions; I would like to quote Kedem Morton.  A Buddhist monk.  He said -- "The gods are illusory, but if we call upon them for assistance, they will help us anyway."

 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

7 minutes ago, Child of God said:

 

Indeed, the Halo is "as multicultural as anything gets." But, the truth remains, the Halo is the same Christian Holy Spirit as He has always been. 

 

 

That is a pure faith statement.  You have every right to make it.  I don't agree with you.

 

 

 

[Dan56]

6 hours ago, Key said:

Further debate, then. How do we know it was truly God that gave them a vision, or even that the one recording was a prophet. Afterall, we'd only have their word for it. There are supposed "prophets" from various religions, and not just different sects of Christianity. Surely, you must acknowledge that there have been various individuals that have claimed a vision from God led them to "transcribe" or lead. That you do not accept them due to they not being "Christian" does not necessarily make them wrong, nor right. (God does choose whoever He wishes. Which can be seemingly odd, at times.) Some are well known, and others not so much.

 

It must come to pass. False prophecies never materialize because God never ordered the mind of the person proclaiming it. Also, knowing if a prophecy is from God would not necessarily relate to whether foretold events come to pass or not, but whether the substance of the message being preached agrees with, or is based on, what God has revealed to us in the Bible. So a prophecy from God will line up with the word of God, meaning it will either be foretelling or forthtelling.  A true Prophet will be 100% accurate, and never gives his private interpretation.

[Dan56]

11 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Evolution theory is about "natural process" rather than "accident". I don't care whether or not you accept evolution theory as real.  The distinction between "natural process" and "accident" is worth making.

 

Point taken

[cuchulain]

A true prophecy should be specific and applicable to one event...and not be written after the fact as though predicting the future but really be about an event that already occured. 

[Key]

18 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

It must come to pass. False prophecies never materialize because God never ordered the mind of the person proclaiming it. Also, knowing if a prophecy is from God would not necessarily relate to whether foretold events come to pass or not, but whether the substance of the message being preached agrees with, or is based on, what God has revealed to us in the Bible. So a prophecy from God will line up with the word of God, meaning it will either be foretelling or forthtelling.  A true Prophet will be 100% accurate, and never gives his private interpretation.

A couple of problems with this, Dan, at least. 

Most glaring is your first sentence. If it must come to pass, then we may never know in our lifetime if a prophecy may have come to pass.  People may often proclaim an event as fulfilling a prophecy, when it may not have. Part of that error is due to some prophecies being a bit vague, yes?

Another, you're relying upon  a book that was written by men to provide substance to a message? A book that may have been questionably altered, or has been often misinterpreted?

Then there's that misinterpretation thing. What if the message aligns with an interpretation, but unknowingly, it's the wrong interpretation? (This isn't to say a "prophet" would be giving the meaning, either.)

 

Personally, I'd rather hear from the horse's mouth, or rather from God, Himself. As I do believe, I know that I would.

[cuchulain]

The argument goes...god didnt provide proof so we could have faith, but the proof(that he didnt provide by the way) is prophecy.  Then there's the 'he could see the future but didnt' argument when discussing free will.  Dan's actually made that one before.  Kind of shoots prophecy in the foot though, doesnt it?  Either he saw the future...or not.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, cuchulain said:

A true prophecy should be specific and applicable to one event...and not be written after the fact as though predicting the future but really be about an event that already occured. 

 

 

"should" -- Such a sad word.  Remove all the pious fraud and humbug from the Bible; and how much is still there?

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, Key said:

A couple of problems with this, Dan, at least. 

Most glaring is your first sentence. If it must come to pass, then we may never know in our lifetime if a prophecy may have come to pass.  People may often proclaim an event as fulfilling a prophecy, when it may not have. Part of that error is due to some prophecies being a bit vague, yes?

Another, you're relying upon  a book that was written by men to provide substance to a message? A book that may have been questionably altered, or has been often misinterpreted?

Then there's that misinterpretation thing. What if the message aligns with an interpretation, but unknowingly, it's the wrong interpretation? (This isn't to say a "prophet" would be giving the meaning, either.)

 

Personally, I'd rather hear from the horse's mouth, or rather from God, Himself. As I do believe, I know that I would.

 

 

Why does God need Human prophets?  The goal is for God to convey a message, from God, to people.  Why does God need the help of prophets?  It might be the best method that I could come up with, in order to convey a message.  Is God as weak and helpless as I am -- to put out a message?

Seriously.  God.  This is the best idea that God could implement?  God?  It's almost as though God had nothing to do with it.

 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, cuchulain said:

The argument goes...god didnt provide proof so we could have faith, but the proof(that he didnt provide by the way) is prophecy.  Then there's the 'he could see the future but didnt' argument when discussing free will.  Dan's actually made that one before.  Kind of shoots prophecy in the foot though, doesnt it?  Either he saw the future...or not.

 

It's worse.  God doesn't "see" the future.  God "remembers" the future.  It goes with being omnipresent.  All times and all places.

 

 

 

[cuchulain]

There's this book based on ancient manuscripts from the middle east, and it's totally true because like...it SAYS it is.  Its got a flood and all sorts of miraculous happenings and this one central character who's the son of the creator!  Everyone should really be spreading the good news of Marduk Kurios, the ancient sumerians say so!

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

4 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

There's this book based on ancient manuscripts from the middle east, and it's totally true because like...it SAYS it is.  Its got a flood and all sorts of miraculous happenings and this one central character who's the son of the creator!  Everyone should really be spreading the good news of Marduk Kurios, the ancient sumerians say so!

 

 

It's late in the day to bring reason into this.  Still, nice effort.