LeopardBoy Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 On 2/5/2017 at 4:39 PM, Gwynn ap Gruffudd said: I agree with you about the oppression of women. This low status of women was a result of Christianity taking over in Europe. In the ancient Celtic world women had equal status. They could rule over tribes or provinces, become warriors or priestesses, and own personal property. I feel this was a reflection of the Celtic religion which taught of Goddesses who were equal or sometimes superior to the male Gods. That might be the case in parts of the Northern European world, but it's not universal. Ancient Athenian society was very oppressive toward women, long before Christianity set foot there, and the patroness of the city was Athena, a goddess. The cult of Athena Polias was the most socially powerful cult in the city, and there is an account of a priestess banishing a king from the temple grounds on the acropolis because he was deemed ritually unsuited to be there. While the women in religious office held a certain amount of social power in Athens, that wasn't the case for the common women, who had no political voice of their own and were considered the property of a male family member. Goddess-worship in itself doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with women's rights or social and political equality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mererdog Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, LeopardBoy said: While the women in religious office held a certain amount of social power in Athens, that wasn't the case for the common women, who had no political voice of their own and were considered the property of a male family member. Weren't even the women in religious office basically the property of the temple or cult? My understanding is that they were basically forced into that life as children and never allowed to leave. A friend years back sold me on an ironic tale of women with tremendous power to shape the future of nation-states but no real power over their own lives. Is that inaccurate, at least according to your studies? Edited February 7, 2017 by mererdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeopardBoy Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 5 hours ago, mererdog said: Weren't even the women in religious office basically the property of the temple or cult? My understanding is that they were basically forced into that life as children and never allowed to leave. A friend years back sold me on an ironic tale of women with tremendous power to shape the future of nation-states but no real power over their own lives. Is that inaccurate, at least according to your studies? It's a bit inaccurate, as least as far as my studies on Athens goes. The first identifiable priestess of the cult of Athena Polias was a woman named Lysimache, and we know of her because a statue of her was erected on the acropolis in honor of her 64 years of service. She died at the age of 88, and since that cult appointed priestesses for life terms, she was around 24 years old when she was elected to the office. We also know she was married, and had borne four children during her service to the cult. According to Robert Garland's study of the cult records of Athens in his article 'Religious Authority in Archaic and Classical Athens', priests and priestesses could be elected to office (presumably with male family members submitting the names of potential priestesses), or selected by drawing lots. The criteria the candidates would have had to meet would differ according to each cult, but could include age, marital status, health, and sometimes which tribe they come from. Certain priestesses, including that of Athena Polias, were tied to a particular tribe involved in its founding, either historically or in myth. Appointments weren't always for life, either. In fact, most appointments to religious office lasted only a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeopardBoy Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 I'd also add that the emoluments Athenian priestesses would receive, which would vary from cult to cult, were fairly equal to those their male counterparts would have generally received. These could include monetary payments, rations of grain or other food usually given in offering at the temple, the hides of sacrificed animals (or money from the sale of those hides), choice cuts of meat from sacrifices, and reserved seating at the theater. The role of religious official was one of the socially acceptable means by which Athenian women could earn their own salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mererdog Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 14 hours ago, LeopardBoy said: It's a bit inaccurate Very tactful. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwynn Posted February 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 On 2/6/2017 at 3:55 PM, Gnostic Bishop said: From the Gnostic POV, she should have said that sometimes she says no. In Gnostic Christianity, we call God I am. And yes, we really mean us. Here is the logic trail Jesus set for that notion. Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Jesus ascended to the judgement seat and takes mastery over God and a Gnostic Christian who reaches that level also does the same. It basically means to reach our full human potential. Regards DL Hi Gnostic Bishop, Good point. She did tend to use the feminine pronouns for God in context of her practice of Gnostic Christianity, but she used standard male pronouns when speaking in general to the public at large. Bendithion, Gwynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwynn Posted February 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 On 2/7/2017 at 9:09 AM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said: It does small good to reference the eye; unless you say that it is the Ajna chakra. Hi Jonathan, Yes quite a difference between the third eye and the physical ones Bendithion, Gwynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnostic Bishop Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 On 07/02/2017 at 9:09 AM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said: It does small good to reference the eye; unless you say that it is the Ajna chakra. I think that most who have studied the old Eastern religious traditions will know what is at issue. Always good to add information as you have done though. Regards DL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnostic Bishop Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 On 08/02/2017 at 3:25 PM, Gwynn ap Gruffudd said: Hi Gnostic Bishop, Good point. She did tend to use the feminine pronouns for God in context of her practice of Gnostic Christianity, but she used standard male pronouns when speaking in general to the public at large. Bendithion, Gwynn Strange that she would miss the opportunity to correct the less informed who put a male face to God and ignore that most of the old traditions had androgynous Gods so that both males and females could relate. Regards DL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 8 minutes ago, Gnostic Bishop said: I think that most who have studied the old Eastern religious traditions will know what is at issue. Always good to add information as you have done though. Regards DL It's hard enough to find good things in the Bible; without missing something because of the idiom. Sometimes, the obvious is easy to overlook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnostic Bishop Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 17 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said: It's hard enough to find good things in the Bible; without missing something because of the idiom. Sometimes, the obvious is easy to overlook. Indeed. Christians are expert at missing what they do not want to accept. They run from quotes that I have put that show the more esoteric Jesus who would free our minds instead of slaving them to a religion. Regards DL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 4 hours ago, Gnostic Bishop said: Indeed. Christians are expert at missing what they do not want to accept. They run from quotes that I have put that show the more esoteric Jesus who would free our minds instead of slaving them to a religion. Regards DL That is not what I meant at all. I was speaking of the esoteric truths behind the Bible. They are there. Things like the third eye. Things like meditation. "Be still, and know that I am God." The meaning of Oneness. Deut. 6:4 God is One. I was not talking about Scripture wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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