Civilized Discussion - Depression, Care, Success Is....

[RayCalculaMinistraDeGezza]

Open forum for courteous and civilized discussion of general interest to interfaith ministers, and ULC ministers in particular.

A general intrest to all and specific intrest to me and Ministering, self and other(s).

Do you Ministers have emotional troubles, be honest? Are they debilitations or just aggrivations or what in your life? If your just fine, what does that mean, especially ex-Vietnam veterans in here or other trauma surivors.

How do one go on if 'it all is just mush in between ones toes'. Or finds being lazy, selfish and a 'bad samaritan' all tooooo natural? How do you arrive at thinking more about others and less about yourself?

viooz.co/movies/3752-pi-1998.html - go to the place of emotional trouble, genius, movie: PI.

viooz.co/search?q=pi&s=t - bonus, movies with 'pi' in the title, enormous and rich in choice.

Have you Ministers assisted the emotionally challenged with success or just seen them go off to the happy hunting ground of the state mental hospital or jail, how did you keep a troubled soul(s) in the independant mode of life, the life of 'draging the whole cross'? Supervised holding of folks is where one is disallowed cigerettes and any toy, just sit and wait until you die or we drive you deeply insane with work or solitary and beating as needed or punked out to the general population by the 'screws' - jailer inmate managers AND abusers, encouraging and looking the other way for rewards or satisfaction of dominating the ill.

I've been able to troubleshoot me to the point of knowing I'm seriously emotionally troubled by not being 'unselfish' or more better said, Its all about me and not about you, a cliche, more it is I'm not interested MORE in the well being of others or EVEN myself and really resent having to 'earn-it' and die or 'earn-it' or die - no free lunch, all free suffering, just pick your posion, creation enjoys all your suffering one way or the others, metals go to the ones that totally sacrified it all, emotionally, econonically, spiritually and physically to keep life going, the MESS, I really experience. It is like drinking sour cream for me all day or playing with a t '*.*' urd.

Here is a google search of emotionally challenged guiness.

What is a mental illness (illegal term in best practises seminars)? A lack of serotonin in the brain? (useless cliche, masqurading as REAL SCIENCE) - Your ideas, through comments, greatly appreciated. All of you all pay $2000.00 or more a month to cover mental illness (co-occuring conditions folks) medications (1 - 2 SSRI or Anti-psycotics or some people are posioned to the tune of six pills daily with serious side effects), as tax payers, the medical community just throws these ineffective and dangerous to deadly, posions (medicines) at the patient, singing science, all the way to the bank - patient sicker (more services, more money) and now pointed to dying in a bad way. All the while the 'patient' is being the receiver of the medical smily face, we are here to help you. Housing options away from Nazi health care centers is a step in the right direction. Jail is cheaper and mental holding centers are going to be the rage, with Affordable Health Care Law - imagine, a concentration camp that is a money maker, ain't God great, few will survive beyond the wharehouse drag-net, engineering poorly supplied zombies for what, you tell me, I know, what I know, the forum should be where you learn from others experience or new intuitions. I seem to give science the benefit of the doubt, but creation is a real bad trip for me. Breaking eggs for omlets, see, break, for, get, YUCH or OUCH...

google.com/search?q=List+of+emotionally+troubles+geniuses

schoolgirlforreal.hubpages.com/hub/A-List-of-Famous-People-Today-With-Mental-Illnesses

dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/curiosity/topics/mad-genius.htm - madness is the rule:

delusions >, allusions > and > illuminations of grandure <.

The concern is are these folks angry or happy, see?

I'm thinking fake it till you make it, well being, but what do I want so bad, in the environment of "'you can do anything you set your mind too, 'airman'"? Having human needs is my only guide so far and resent them all toooooo much. Lighting up on pure love, service and working to mankind and life's extention sets me off, like I'm in a hostage situation and I do not want to suck up to tyranny (take me Liberty or take me death) of human needs and creation's unrelenting DEMANDS, in the fight for surival plane - even with all the progams, total freedom, medical services all over the place and American opportunity, I cannot get over 'explitivef - it'. And want out or 'get your body off my spirit'. But then to what and where, another "'sand box' of bleeding for 'picking crops'".

So the above challenged genius made it through (got to read more), but did they ever get to happy, satisfied or confident or just stay 'Eeyores' but productive? I've heard about a Hollywood producer that one day went to a batroom and never was the same after that, depression set-in and ruined the life of another, 'hail creation, hail' - "life is good". Or is it preordained by Devine Provenence to kill ones' self finally after the fatigue sets in for the umteenth time and another is lost like Alan Turing - google.com/search?q=allen+turing#q=alan+turing&spell=1

Well that cover the topics and me pretty o.k. for an undegreed writer.

My case on hand now is curious, depressed, since the great-grand mother died and was shocked when Bambi was shot, still carrying this trauma from three years old or more all the way untill the ends it appears to me, a chicken-chopping, corn growing farm person as young to military service. This fellow surived being Baptist in Iowa and discovering from scratch (in a time and era where that was not known, discussed and totally put down in the Bible - found his fill in school books looking at the wrestling team) he is gay, being held back young and unable to read his report card, hiding from the family, dislexic, the fellow went on to be a multi-tasker in the ARMY and a leading protestor for civil right during the Nixon era.

All went well, he even ran a gang in Panama, on base he was the real deal, off base he was a realer deal. Up untill one day he was escourted off the base back to the USA for mental health issues. The guy went so far down into the nuts-o-sphere, he was gone (forgot everything, EVERYTHING), lost and had a big way to come back. He did, playing ping-pong on thorazine but never recovered and still feels scared of falling off into the deep end. This guy always has a suicide plan in place and trying to get a sense of comfort or well being, still. Include he comes from a big family with plenty reunions (a now dissolving situation - time went on by), he now is hold up in a teak lounge chair with air mats (a two year old remedy for throwing out the bed bug bedset and has not got a new bedset, a 'sick', not a poor guy), has not cooked for two years as he is oppressed by the apartment in Waikiki, due to heat and no chance at an A/C because the apartment pays all the utilities, so A/C is out, serve money, you know, serve money, no table kicking in the temple or your evicted. Add into this it is the holiday season, his recently decesed mother's birthday - his biggest friend, just came and went and his sister is nearer dying after going through intestine surgery and more proceedures as the recovery was 'all over the road' and included a traceotomy, she is now in rehabilitation trying to walk - all for what my friend and I feel, a few more stuggle it out for God moments and actually both of us are just reeling from it, coping we may look like, but the suicide is always knocking. Finishing off on, my friend is scared and lonely now. This happy to do more for others then himself - learned on the farm and in church and at home as well as having a sweet soul is so counting on me to be that little life lite in what to date remains a life of hedonic reactions to a basic anhedonic way of being, anhedonic from where, through what, diagnosed foks, gravely disabled in CA ER lingo before admission, try to make today and tommorow and feel lightning struck always, wanting to be unmagnitised - DIE ALREADY, is that relief, what is relief, "Arbiet Macht Frei"??? again, HUH?!? - RIGHT. The take it one day at a time is all we get on a good day.

I'm slipping to one moment at a time and feel so proud to be of help in the way I am, but got the 'jump in front of the bus' URGE, mentality all tooooooo much. It is wierd to know how important I am to one's wellness and see my wellness as passing out of this life. A place that "feels like I'm 'paying child support' to everyone".

Life is in this dramatic pattern of opposites, being needed and feeling the heart tugs and being selfish to the point I want to bail out of life. Can you see and feel how people are always torn. What is just a normal lifes pulls and tears?

So there you go Ministers, forward this letter or call in scribes. Or leave a big vaccume and play chacer in this forum.

I'll stay in style and add some songs that will help the meditative, thinking juice process and look forward to more then the past few burps of insight. People in here Minister right?

Greatful Dead - West LA Fadeaway....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GMi2oM28V8

Greatful Dead - Throwing Stones....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROWyn8zAVh4

And what is your final answer?

Final Countdown -

alluc.to/movies/watch-the-final-countdown-1980-online/154191.html

bonus -

Edited November 28, 2013 by RayCalculaMinistraDeGezza

[Pete]

One thing I recommend to people is that looking after one's self is not selfish. If you do not look after one's self then one cannot then be a strong support for others.

I do not believe anyone can get through life without getting a few knocks on the way. Yet, sometimes these are really hard to deal with such as your ex-Vietnam veterans and trauma comment. Being tormented by one's worst nightmares on a daily basis is not an easy thing for anyone.

I see a lot in the comment that says "Religion is for those who do not want to go to hell and spirituality is there for those who have already been to hell. I personally do not believe in hell as a place in the afterlife but I do see some people who have had more than a taste of it in this life. I would not therefore say that these are selfish people because they look after themselves first. Sometimes people have to look after themselves.

I have met some people who are caring night and day for suffers of dementia in the family and feel guilty that they are struggling to cope and then ask for help. My advice is to be easy on oneself and take what help there is because if a person does not then in the long term they will fail and then there will be two people to look after. Sometimes when people are suffering it is hard to think of others but I believe that is because they are focusing their energies on healing. That to me it is not selfish but an important thing to do.

[Atwater Vitki]

Ray-

First off, thank you for being open about what's going on around and with you. Sometimes it helps just to get it all out so that others know what's going on. I have to agree with Pete, it is not always selfish to look after one's Self first. Quite often it's the best thing we can do for everyone. If you are looking to discuss this issue here, there are a few "mentors" available in this area of expertise and I'm sure they'll pipe in as time allows. You've already heard from one in post #2!

And again, welcome to the crew. I'm sure as time goes on the info you seek will come along.

Blessings of Peace,

Al

[emalpaiz]

Many of us, if not all of us, have had to deal with our personal demons. Some of us have been successful, and others are still dealing with many of those negative issues. When we understand that we have some serious issues to deal with is when the process of healing begins. It has never been an easy path, but we have to begin by facing those demons. There is a Buddhist saying that says, "Even loss and betrayal can bring us awakeining." Buddhist and Vedic style meditations have helped me along those difficult moments, but what has helped me most is the faith that I have that I can conquer those demons.

Hermano Luis

Moriviví Hermitage

[Brother Kaman]

The only ministers that I am aware of that never have emotional troubles from time to time, are figments of my imagination. To me, selfish is not sharing what you have with those who are without. What is not selfish is placing yourself first and foremost so that you will have something to share with those who are without.

[RayCalculaMinistraDeGezza]

You catch it, I'll clean it... Freeze frame this launch earily in launch and see a religous figure walking on water with staff. Symbols, talismans and cognitive excitation for me, how did I get too see the figure painted by the reality of a water launch jet. Almost the same thing as seeing figures in clouds, animism, I think - what's next after animism? I'd like more activities that expand my recognitions skills and I.Q. that contribute to everyone's well being. I see activity in a supportive environment as imperitive, very hard for a white to find in Honolulu or Oahu - where is the little city or town for me and my kind?

Armormax Smart Truck - listen for the "ding/donk", prize winner, used, they make great Christmas present - an antique, see hexacopters for news....

bluesbrotherscentral.com/ - Christmas supplies

- The Mission for God Boys.

google.com/search?q=hexacopter

youtube.com/results?q=hexacopter&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=w1

- lecture

I'm American citizen born in Munich, think I got a privledge to go back to Germany where I was born.

I actually do not find any real supportive place in Honolulu for good activity and great lessons outside of my friends apartment, just find miserable folks in the abusive land of Aloha in general. My best guess is the Washington State, Seattle, for vocational opportunities and great folks somewhere, somehow the Hawaii and Guam Ministers do not appear in my browsers on the ULC net for the ULC hit parade of Ministers and Ministry. My friend said the news reported trouble in Seattle, homelessness and mean, I got to get a lead on good place for mental health service and vocational opportunity and community of folks that like to help each other, not what goes on here, one gets tickets from hide in dark cops and citizens all too happy to press and hit you in street crosswalks in Waikiki, Waikiki Trolly driver needed to be restrained from leaving a hit and run type behavior by homeless veteran. My care center is just profit driven and actually dislikes their clients, just wants the money, will see if it gets better, I doubt it though, too low down, I council the psychologist.

So insomnia, fits and ambition are all mixed wrong - or I'm perfectly on God's time and plane? Life is what happens while you make other plans. What to do, how to see the present perfectly everywhere, always - in spite of all "Devilish Challenges" is not too hard but i'm missing it just yet.

K.eep I.t S.tupid S.imple is escaping me...

[toktu]

I tend to dislike the terms : crazy , mentally ill, unstable , et all . We all have something that we think is wrong with ourselves. Our own short comings. Don't like my hair , one breast is lopsided, I'm deaf, I have wrinkles. I could not save someone from death, I hear voices telling me to do things. The list goes on and on. There are some things that we can change physically. And others still not so easily. I do currently council my mother and brother. And I have had some positive results from getting them to realize that whatever it is that they need to accept it for what it is. Some times the voice in our heads is a reminder of what we don't want to become. At times the visions in our heads that we can't save some ones life in war or what ever , may just be a reminder of not to forget old friends. And sometimes to remind us that they did not die alone. And yet still also a reminder to let the family know of what kind of friend they had turned out to be. And sometimes it is just a story that needs to be told. Now I'm not saying that some do not need medical treatment or confined. I do not believe in the beat until they come to senses.

Ask the Who what where and why and let the spirits act.

[Pete]

I tend to dislike the terms : crazy , mentally ill, unstable , et all . We all have something that we think is wrong with ourselves. Our own short comings. Don't like my hair , one breast is lopsided, I'm deaf, I have wrinkles. I could not save someone from death, I hear voices telling me to do things. The list goes on and on. There are some things that we can change physically. And others still not so easily. I do currently council my mother and brother. And I have had some positive results from getting them to realize that whatever it is that they need to accept it for what it is. Some times the voice in our heads is a reminder of what we don't want to become. At times the visions in our heads that we can't save some ones life in war or what ever , may just be a reminder of not to forget old friends. And sometimes to remind us that they did not die alone. And yet still also a reminder to let the family know of what kind of friend they had turned out to be. And sometimes it is just a story that needs to be told. Now I'm not saying that some do not need medical treatment or confined. I do not believe in the beat until they come to senses.

Ask the Who what where and why and let the spirits act.

I believe there is a thing called mental illness but I also believe that should not be seen as the sum total of a person. Unlike many lay people who would described someone with odd beliefs as mad, that is not how professionals see things.

The question is, is that belief harmful to a person in the manner of preventing them functioning in their lives. There is little that in the characteristics of someone who has a mental illness to that of a sane person. Yet, when those Characteristics are to a degree it takes over the person's life then there is an issue. For example:- We all get fed up sometimes but when that depressions last months and years and incapacitates a person from having the ability to live their lives then there is problem.

We all get anxious at times but when that feeling of anxiety seems to have no cause for the person and it is ever present that the person fears all the time, many being scared to even get out of bed every day then there is a problem.

The voices that many suffer in schizophrenia are not always a problem in themselves but when you hear someone shouting vulgarities and threats all the time and telling a person that if they do not do something like kill themselves or a catastrophe will occur and thousands will die or that there is some terrible plot to kill them going on, then you can imagine how distracting this can be to the function of a person and especially so if you cannot tell whether these voices or ideas are real or not. Mental illness is real suffering and a real group of illnesses, but the trouble is that when some lay people get hold of the terms then they have a tendency to use them as an insult to another and that undermines those who are really suffering.

It is no good telling a depression sufferer to shake out of it. If they could then they would and many try really hard to escape such feelings that linger on day after day without ceasing, even some take their lives. It is no joke. The problem as I see it is that many can see the concept of a person suffering a physical illness but they do not take on board the mind is also part of the body and can get ill too and are less sympathetic to people who suffer such illnesses. This in turn prevents many from seeking help because they fear what others may think of them if they did. There is vast gulf between how professionals see mental illness and medical terms and the way some lay people see things.

[Atwater Vitki]

I'd like more activities that expand my recognitions skills and I.Q. that contribute to everyone's well being. I see activity in a supportive environment as imperitive, very hard for a white to find in Honolulu or Oahu - where is the little city or town for me and my kind?

I'm American citizen born in Munich, think I got a privledge to go back to Germany where I was born.

I actually do not find any real supportive place in Honolulu for good activity and great lessons outside of my friends apartment, just find miserable folks in the abusive land of Aloha in general. My best guess is the Washington State, Seattle, for vocational opportunities and great folks somewhere, somehow the Hawaii and Guam Ministers do not appear in my browsers on the ULC net for the ULC hit parade of Ministers and Ministry. My care center is just profit driven and actually dislikes their clients, just wants the money, will see if it gets better, I doubt it though, too low down, I council the psychologist.

So insomnia, fits and ambition are all mixed wrong - or I'm perfectly on God's time and plane? Life is what happens while you make other plans. What to do, how to see the present perfectly everywhere, always - in spite of all "Devilish Challenges" is not too hard but i'm missing it just yet.

K.eep I.t S.tupid S.imple is escaping me...

Hui! Aloha, Ray!

So you no find da'kine kahuna where you stay eh? Yeah brah, I understand dat.

I'm a transplant from California to Maui and back to Cali...unfortunately for all the wrong reasons. I see in your signature you are familiar with ho'oponopono and what a blessing that has been in my wife and my life. There is a Buddhist mission, the Jodo, on Maui that was a very special and awesome place for us, and, no, there are not many ULC ministers listed on any island...what I can say tho was that the good Rev. Hara at the Jodo was phenomenal (if he is still there)

Honolulu is like any big city in the world, full of hate, violence and in reality is not the Hawaiian Spirit at all. Maui or the Big Island, if you enjoy conveniences, or Lanai or Kaua'i for the "away from it all" and the more traditional kama'aina type folks. We enjoyed 8 wonderful years on Maui and knew several kahuna that suited our situation well...if you can, escape over to Maui and go to Makawao (Up Country) and gently ask around for "da kine kahuna for da spirit o' Maui" and hopefully you can get hooked up with a lady they recommend. She was about 55-60 when we were there so add 10 years to that, but you'll see a wonderfully charming older gal, bright colored moo-moo's, feathers in a clutch or on her armband and she can direct you to either her own services or those of someone that may suit you better...that is how we found the kahuna that helped us for 5 years. There was (still is?) a shop about the middle of Makawao main street that had "Lomi Lomi Massages and Ho'oponopono" on the window....good place to start asking...hint...hint (I didn't see a website for the shop listed or would have posted it).

It's individual and why I will not recommend just one healer...it's all an avenue of journey, of Self, of knowing what fits you the best...there is no one answer or kahuna for everyone. You are probably also aware that 'pono is a process, not a destination, that takes a person on their individual journey through life. It's the small steps, one day at a time type thing and as one thing heals in your life, so will the next and the next and the next and...and...!

Many Blessings of Peace,

Aloha,

Al

[RayCalculaMinistraDeGezza]

One of my troubles is/was/will-be keeping up with threads at this forum, As I experience it, the forum, tools and searches are antique, now saving band width not embeding videos, does quit serving money ring a bell, templer?.

I revisited an email with this link and am so glad there were the kind helpful ideas for all to go on forward.

My Hawaii Princess landtyrant "nails" with everyone, seen the abuse on other mental ill tennents (case managers engineer troubles by failing to perform calling client crazy - go figure and abandon them to the wolves) and other folks get harrassed out - all loosing housing and deposits. Got to chirp the worst case out here, unwilling to give much benefit of the doubt.

The privitizing of afforable housing here is corrupt - Huges Corp. got it I think right, the City holds money back from HUD (Federal Government Officially mad, just does not reinvade or arrest the crooks and other sources) and all renter and business clients out here are wontonly graped by authorities. It is Sodom and Gorrilla here. Most business owner operators are some form of the following metaphores and total soul vexations. gun wielding, ice dealing punks, off shoots, kin of the authorities, gangsters. IT IS BAD HERE.

So thanks for the comments here, my biggest work ahead is to teach THAT women get pregnant - PERIOD. Does not matter if drunk one night or heels over head in love divorsed retreading, the lesson, the word, if women and children are not the top thing in your culture, then you off base and that form of immorality is too be corrected, the Ministers job actually. Fix this everything else works. Gays help women and children just fine as such, no worries mate.

My need here is to get lead on communities that are very egar to get a Section 8 voucher and have certificate education, especially airframe and power plant.

Portland, OR needed a court ruling to stop rejecting outright Section 8 vouchers, Seattle is "too snobby" for Section 8, priced out totally, outlying area may be better.

Omak Washington - home of suicide race... was issuing Section 8 to everyone, five years ago by now, going to check on that this computer session, still open season on section 8.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fF25JI3aV8

Any and all Ministerial ad libing on the subject would be excellent and most helpful.

Now what you going to do to help them women and kids especially mental, unemployeed and stop accepting the guns up your dark holes serving the economy and money expecting to be saved when actually you save and serve money, you want to be saved, WHAT ARE YOU HAwaiin???

Ad liberals...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRdIztHLxl4

P.S. My body is giving signals, I'm over with, reflexive painj if I'm lucky. Eyes, mind and lower back all ...

I'll get run into a hospital here and sliced and diced to live and/or die POLICY TO POLICE - no thanks. Where can I experience unmedicated pain and not be arrested or taken from home when hollering pain starts. I'd like to computer simulate and mesmerize my way on to the infinity plane and through the tough times.

We are talking a Section 8 home somewhere other then Hawaii, independant living with nurse until hearse or group home, yeah, all the mouth here at home crying, shut him up and even Palative care seems to carry away the hollers.

What do you do, this seem almost equivelent to an exersishymn some how. As in, where is the comptuer, hollering pain dying room???.

Go dog, time to bark.

Edited January 27, 2014 by RayCalculaMinistraDeGezza