The Bible Vs Nature

[Fawzo]

I read a quote similar to this on Facebook the other day:

If I place a Bible (or any sacred text for that matter) outside in my backyard on the picnic table it wont be long before the rain, wind and sun decompose it into the dirt from whence it came, that is why I worship the rain, wind and sun.

[Atwater Vitki]

It does appear that some things are indeed "eternal" while other things are not! Hail; Earth, Wind, Water and Fire!! (The other band that didn't make the charts! )

[Fawzo]

[Bro. Hex]

I prefer Awe to "worship"....

I think it comes more naturally.

[revtimothybland]

Coming from a Christian upbringing, I do believe the Bible has its uses. It is, after all, a collection of stories filled with metaphor and allegory designed to help make a better you, much like a modern self-help book. But it is a book, written by man. Not worthy of worship.

To that point, I agree with Hex. "Worship" is too much to me like "Slavery". I mean, why force us to bow to something's every whim, when instead we can choose to live in harmony with it? This is the difference between "Worshiping" something and "Respecting" it. I Respect Nature. Ted Nugent said it best, I think, in his "Sunrize, Narrated":

I say how can it be that man owns the land, can we possess the sky, the wind, the call of the seasons ?
Man does not own the earth, but rather the earth owns man, we’re merely caretakers of the wild for our children.
We must show reverence for nature, the ground we share, and the spirit of the wild.
We must respect each new sunrize.

Take a deep breath, feel the spirit of the wild.

Feel our instincts, feel the heart of the hunter.
Each new day, each new sunrize can bring the renewal of life, the renewal of the spirit.
Keep your senses alert, learn to appreciate the value of that sign.
The excitement of that smell, that sight…the aroma of the woods.

Cherish the beauty of our brother the eagle, the deer, our blood brother the bear.

As the new sun warms our new day, thrill at the adventure of being one with nature.
As the majestic buck melts out of the swamp, feel the spirit come alive.
Hold tight to your bow and arrow, grab the spirit,
Feel its presence, feel the spirit of the wild.
Hey, there he is, in the wind….
[ From: http://www.metrolyrics.com/sunrize-narrated-version-lyrics-ted-nugent.html ]
The sensual stimuli, the thrill that will cleanse the soul,
Go ahead, feel alive.
The sunrize is on fire, as our senses, our very lifeblood is on fire.
Share these sensations with your friends,
Share ‘em with the children,
For life is a series of sunrizes
The spirit of the wild.

Let it inspire your heart and soul,
Challenge the good, natural hunter within you,
Challenge yourself….to connect.
Be an asset to nature.
Take each day, take each sunrize step by step.
Sunrize by sunrize.
Take it to heart.
Embrace the spirit of the wild.
Embrace each and every sunrize
Rise into the sun.
Seize it.
In the wind, he’s still alive….

Read more: TED NUGENT - SUNRIZE (NARRATED VERSION) LYRICS

[LeopardBoy]

The Merriam-Webster definition of worship (noun) is:

1: chiefly British : a person of importance - used as a title for various individuals

2: reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power

3: a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual

4: extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem

The Merriam-Webster definition of worship (verb) is:

1: To honor or reverence as a divine being or spiritual power.

2: To regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion.

From the Middle English worshipe worthiness, respect, reverence paid to a divine being; from the Old English weorthscipe worthiness, respect; from weorth worthy, worth + -scipe- ship.

The implication that worship and spiritual slavery are the same thing has nothing to do with the definition of the word. I worship the Theoi. That does not mean I am enslaved by them, demean myself before them, or bow to their every whim (though I do acknowledge that I am a mortal with mortal thinking). It means I show respect and honor to them through ritual actions and prayer. I means I find them worthy of such reverence.

In the pagan community, words like "worship", "religion", and "prayer" have become almost taboo because of holdover emotions relating to a previous religion or through common usage in dominant religions; even though the concepts of these words often apply to the actions of the individuals who shun the term.

[revtimothybland]

I never said I equated "Worship" with "Slavery" because of the DEFINITION, I said it because of how it's used these days.

YOU may be smart enough to look up the definition and use it in proper context, but not many people are willing to do that.

Considering this thread was SUPPOSED to be our feelings about The Bible vs. Nature, and not "Let's define a word because I feel someone got it wrong and needs to be corrected", I feel somewhat offended that you didn't get the gist of what I was TRYING to say, and instead focused on something even slightly wrong so that you can make yourself out to be a smart, better person than myself.

Bravo.

[Raincloud]

The historical Buddha talked about the Dharma ending times where eventually the Dharma will disappear from this realm, and then sometime in a the future a new self awakening buddha would bring it back. Rinse/Repeat for infinity.

It's fair to say the Buddha worshipped neither the Bible nor the processes that destroy the physical book.

Perhaps this is a third perspective.

[LeopardBoy]

I never said I equated "Worship" with "Slavery" because of the DEFINITION, I said it because of how it's used these days.

YOU may be smart enough to look up the definition and use it in proper context, but not many people are willing to do that.

Considering this thread was SUPPOSED to be our feelings about The Bible vs. Nature, and not "Let's define a word because I feel someone got it wrong and needs to be corrected", I feel somewhat offended that you didn't get the gist of what I was TRYING to say, and instead focused on something even slightly wrong so that you can make yourself out to be a smart, better person than myself.

Bravo.

I brought up the definition precisely because people define it according to their negative feelings about it and not because of the proper usage. I've been criticized many times because I admit to "worshiping", "praying", and belonging to a "religion".

By making the comparison between worship and slavery, you are essentially saying that countless many who "worship" are enslaved to their deities. I was merely attempting to point out that it's not the case.

[Atwater Vitki]

I never said I equated "Worship" with "Slavery" because of the DEFINITION, I said it because of how it's used these days.

YOU may be smart enough to look up the definition and use it in proper context, but not many people are willing to do that.

Considering this thread was SUPPOSED to be our feelings about The Bible vs. Nature, and not "Let's define a word because I feel someone got it wrong and needs to be corrected", I feel somewhat offended that you didn't get the gist of what I was TRYING to say, and instead focused on something even slightly wrong so that you can make yourself out to be a smart, better person than myself.

Bravo.

I brought up the definition precisely because people define it according to their negative feelings about it and not because of the proper usage. I've been criticized many times because I admit to "worshiping", "praying", and belonging to a "religion".

By making the comparison between worship and slavery, you are essentially saying that countless many who "worship" are enslaved to their deities. I was merely attempting to point out that it's not the case.

Rev. Bland - I honestly don't believe Leopard was in any way trying "one up-manship". We go through this a lot here due to the written word vs. "in person" for the nuances and body language etc. I got what the whole thing was about from the first post only because, yep, been around awhile and know these good folks.

I also got how you meant it as well.

And in general - The very problems I am having in my family (and extended through my mother's church) right now is due to my views of "emulation" vs. their views of "worship". IMHO, they truly are in "slavery" and bondage to the way they believe while I am in alliance with the full backing of my deities. They live in fear of their "God" and are indeed enslaved to the hierarchy of the church and perceptions of their peers. I am in cohort and brotherhood with those I emulate and have as fellow followers, therefore have no such bondage or restrictions.

It is as Leo says, (in a manner of speaking) a matter of perception. People can choose to be "enslaved" or "in league with" what they choose as their "religion". And to be fair, I also know several good folk who understand the message of the Christ and live in bliss and alliance with Him as well by refusing to become enslaved to dogma and doctrine of The Church.

I truly believe that once people figure out the variances of being enslaved to dogmatic or doctrinal indifference as compared to the freedoms afforded the individual with a bond of Love, it doesn't matter what "religion" they are. Christ said "where any two gather in my name, so am I there"....Odhinn (in one of his many disguises) said "If two or a hundred gather for the sake of the Aesir, they have insight"...not sure which came first as both are thought to be roughly 1^st century CE writing, but the message is the same....you don't have to be "enslaved" to human authority to have the power and backing of the Universal Divine Spirit.

Choosing to be enslaved to human indifference and controlled by fear of authority or choosing the independent Free Will bond of Love makes all the difference in the world...literally.

Blessings of Peace,

[revtimothybland]

Atwater, you have a point. I wasn't saying that everyone who uses the term "Worship" is enslaved, just that "worship" is too much like "slavery" to ME. Most of those who use the term ARE, as Atwater mentioned, enslaved by their own church/dogma/hierarchy. I understand, and have always understood, that this isn't always the case.

So, I apologize for my somewhat crass, maybe even a little rude response to LeopardBoy.

[Atwater Vitki]

We routinely need "clarification" around here on wording matters...but hey, that's any forum.

As the topic here is "Bible vs. Nature" it also brings up one of the many conflicts brought about by literalness. As "Naturalists" most pagan and heathen, and of course the newer collections of wiccan writers, as well as for the last 100 years of "First Peoples", are all trying to preserve what is left of an oral tradition that were steeped in nature. On counter point, that's what I believe Moses was doing some 3500 years ago with the "new technology" of writing, preserving the oral traditions set down by Abraham and monotheism. I just don't believe we should take it all "literally".

Even as a "professed Pagan" I sincerely concede the point that the Bible, Koran, Gita, the writings of Confucius, Buddha, Edda, Shinto etc etc all have a place in trying to explain our alliance with the Divine. All have valuable lessons and graphic examples of how we should, and shouldn't, treat each other.

Naturalism puts into practice the wonders of Creation, whether one believes it as written in the Bible, or the numerous versions found throughout the many, many cultures of humanity.

There is a spot on Maui where a 50' high waterfall drops into about a 100' by 50' pool about 15' deep, right at the edge of the ocean. You can sit on the rock edge and get sprayed by crashing ocean waves on your back while the mist of the freshwater falls hits you in the face, all at the same time. Swimming in this "sacred pool" and sitting under the falls, brings a person into connection with Divine Spirit, regardless of what label one puts on it, believer or atheist, devout or wanna-be....everyone that goes there is "touched" by something outside, yet inside our very Self.

Whatever it is, by definition, by label, by convention of thought that "touches" you while there is what people of every culture around the globe try to express in words about their personal experiences with the Divine. As folks who have been to those falls several times, Kay and I find it impossible to put into words just "what" that "touch" is...but it is so awesomely real. We tried to share that with everyone we met while living there, both tourist and local that hadn't been there. The feed back we got was simple mumbling, loss of words, no one could adequately describe the "connection" felt at that pool/waterfall.

And therein lies the rub with people trying to express any connection a person has first hand with the Divine.

This is precisely how I feel about any "book" that tries to express the Divine Connection. It is not something a person can read about, and "get it". It must be experienced, first hand or the definition will eternally fall short. Anyone who has this same connection with "God", or?, or?, or?, knows exactly what I mean.

Blessings of Peace,

[Bro. Hex]

QUOTE: " this thread was SUPPOSED to be our feelings about The Bible vs. Nature... " UNQUOTE

Where did this topic say "anything" about "our feelings" ??

I didn't understand that to be the case. Feelings are fine, but so are other aspects.

Edited April 3, 2013 by Bro. Hex

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

I read a quote similar to this on Facebook the other day:

If I place a Bible (or any sacred text for that matter) outside in my backyard on the picnic table it wont be long before the rain, wind and sun decompose it into the dirt from whence it came, that is why I worship the rain, wind and sun.

"The Word" is not in a book. "The Word" can not be heard with the ear or seen with the eye. "The Word" is not damaged by weather.

IMO

Edited May 2, 2013 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Ex Nihilo]

I dig that!

[Fawzo]

"The Word" is not in a book. "The Word" can not be heard with the ear or seen with the eye. "The Word" is not damaged by weather.

IMO

I agree completely my Zen friend