We May Bicker, But People Are In Jail

[marechols]

http://www.christianpost.com/article/20101124/muslims-protest-possible-pardon-for-pakistani-christian-woman/

A group of hard-line Muslims, including many students from Islamic schools, protested Wednesday in the city of Lahore against a possible presidential pardon for a Pakistani Christian woman sentenced to death for alleged blasphemy.

Please follow the link to read more.

The one thing that we are all supposed to be in agreement on is that people have the right to choose, correct? Isn't this why we became ordained through the ULC?

Um, this is going on right now, in the 21st century, and we all need to put aside our petty differences and pray as one for these women and those who would opress them.

Please?

Thank you & Much love to all...

Rev. Margaret

[SoundofPeace]

I am a firm believer that we as a species have a very long way to go on the evolutionary tree. And I do see it happening. In the days of Alex the Great and Gengas Khan, battle was the way of life. Then we graduated to the world war series. We tired of that and our conflicts became Koreas, Vietnams and Afghanistans. And now you really gotta have a tip-top script if you want to persuade people to attend another battle.

The prayers help hasten us to better days, but have faith that we do seem steadily headed in that direction.

[Fawzo]

The prayers help hasten us to better days, but have faith that we do seem steadily headed in that direction.

Maybe we need running shoes!

[emalpaiz]

I am for freedom of religion; nevertheless, I have a question. If the woman had been a Hindu, would the West be concerned?

Note: I will be saying special prayers for this woman.

Hermano Luis

Moriviví Hermitage

[marechols]

I was made aware of this problem by a Muslim-turned-Christian Minister who is trying to stay under the radar so that he can continue his ministry. He is clothing, feeding, and educating his people. General education, not just religious. So no, I don't think it would matter much.

[Youch]

http://www.christian...hristian-woman/

A group of hard-line Muslims, including many students from Islamic schools, protested Wednesday in the city of Lahore against a possible presidential pardon for a Pakistani Christian woman sentenced to death for alleged blasphemy.

Please follow the link to read more.

The one thing that we are all supposed to be in agreement on is that people have the right to choose, correct? Isn't this why we became ordained through the ULC?

Um, this is going on right now, in the 21st century, and we all need to put aside our petty differences and pray as one for these women and those who would opress them.

Please?

Thank you & Much love to all...

Rev. Margaret

Religious intolerance and oppression is rampant in many parts of the world. And this is not new. But it has gotten more focused in the last decade or so, and certainly the 24/7 media amplifies both the good and the bad in the world.

If the woman had been a Hindu, would the West be concerned?

As opposed to the East? I think you mean "as" concerned. Actually, the people of India would be more concerned. Such is the way of cultural perspective, priority and proclivity. Things that happen in San Juan, or to Puerto Ricans around the world, are more important to Puerto Ricans, for example.

[panpareil]

Not all American freedoms are honored in the rest of the world.

At least not until others do the work that we have done and continue to do to obtain and maintain possession of these rights.

Freedom is not free. We must work and sacrifice for it.

Edited December 2, 2010 by panpareil

[Carl Harry Carlson]

http://www.christianpost.com/article/20101124/muslims-protest-possible-pardon-for-pakistani-christian-woman/

A group of hard-line Muslims, including many students from Islamic schools, protested Wednesday in the city of Lahore against a possible presidential pardon for a Pakistani Christian woman sentenced to death for alleged blasphemy.

Please follow the link to read more.

The one thing that we are all supposed to be in agreement on is that people have the right to choose, correct? Isn't this why we became ordained through the ULC?

Um, this is going on right now, in the 21st century, and we all need to put aside our petty differences and pray as one for these women and those who would opress them.

Please?

Thank you & Much love to all...

Rev. Margaret

Rev. Margaret,

My estimation is that we are talking about civilizations that have been living for centuries under authoritarian control. Individualism just doesn't seem to be a part of the culture of so many people.

In those societies, anyone who dares to think or act differently or who insists on creating their own path are seen as a dangerous threat to society, apparently. Punishment by death is seen as appropriate for any insult to the established way of doing things.

Remember, in Afghanistan in 2006, a man was condemned to death by the government for the crime of "apostasy." That means abandoning the Muslim faith. But the criminal was given a chance to live if he went back to his Muslim faith, explained an elder, "because Islam is a religion of tolerance."

Once a Muslim, alwasy a Muslim, in these societies, or else.

And those are our moderate allies! We are fighting to support them instead of the Taliban!

And yes it seems more than a coincidence that the stories that reach us are usually about someone who is a Christian. The man in Afghanistan had converted to Christianity.

Whether there is more aggression against Christians, or the story is more newsworthy in the West if the victim is Christian, is hard to tell. Probably both. Outrages that are conducted by Muslims against another Muslim are probably not as newsworthy in the West.

Billions of people never got the memo about the Magna Carta or any of the other moves away from authoritarian governance that have happened since in Western society. It will probably take centuries more for the idea of individual human rights to sink in.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Carl Harry Carlson

[marechols]

Thank you, but please remember that the effective fervent prayer of a righteous [man] avails much!

[emalpaiz]

At the Moriviví Hermitage prayers are being said for Ms. Asia Bibi and for all person who suffer persecution for their religious beliefs.

Hermano Luis

Moriviví Hermitage

[Fawzo]

Thank you, but please remember that the effective fervent prayer of a righteous [man] avails much!

How true is that in real world scenarios and what constitutes a "right-use man"?

In a test versus an empty milk carton prayers to God were answered as often as prayers to the milk carton.

Edited December 4, 2010 by Fawzo

[RevRainbow]

If one does not have faith in their praying, nor trust in God to answer their prayers, they might as well pray, then, to a milk carton. We don't test God, we trust Him and we know, when we ask, He hears us.

[Fawzo]

If one does not have faith in their praying, nor trust in God to answer their prayers, they might as well pray, then, to a milk carton. We don't test God, we trust Him and we know, when we ask, He hears us.

I feel the key is praying within the stream of consciousness that is God's will. Going against the stream no matter what one's level of faith makes it tough!

[Brother Michael Sky]

I feel the key is praying within the stream of consciousness that is God's will. Going against the stream no matter what one's level of faith makes it tough!

exactly my opinion as well... I do not pray with a desired result in mind.... I pray that the difficulty experienced by the individual will be clarified, and that their Highest and Best good will be accomplished - and yet I do not imagine that I have any firm grasp of what that may be... I am simply joining that soul in a desire for clarity and understanding....

[RevRainbow]

Nothing I said should be interpreted that I disagree with you.

[Youch]

Individualism just doesn't seem to be a part of the culture of so many people.

I understand what you are saying. But I disagree. I think that it is a primal yearning of all humans to want to be free. Perhaps, as you suggest, some are born to be subsurvient to a regime, but when given the chance the aggregate will always choose freedom. The human world, in all ways, reflects this. This leads to a much larger conversation, of course....

If one does not have faith in their praying, nor trust in God to answer their prayers, they might as well pray, then, to a milk carton. We don't test God, we trust Him and we know, when we ask, He hears us.

There is a small island in the South Pacific who's people are referred to as the Cargo Cult. I posted about this a couple of years ago.

Then there are the Jedi people.

And, of course, there are all the peoples of the world who worship something other than your God.

I post this with no disrespect to your beliefs. I simply point out that disparate belief systems are both good in terms of freedom and diversity, and bad in terms of the proclivity toward tolerance and peace, and of course the issue that they undermine religious veracity as a whole.

[Raincloud]

Not all American freedoms are honored in the rest of the world.

Freedom is not American

Thankfully I have Australian Freedom, which is superior to American Freedom.

*lights a match and runs*

[Youch]

Freedom is not American

Thankfully I have Australian Freedom, which is superior to American Freedom.

*lights a match and runs*

Agreed that freedom is not uniquely American.

It is, however, preserved in no better fashion than our Constitution. The vast majority of the global human migrants ultimately agree, it seems.

But, whatever....

An interesting side note.....once upon a time I seriously considered becoming a citizen of your excellent county. I have visited your nation many times, always loved the experience. On one such occasion I met a woman who stole my heart, tantilized my brain and worshipped my body, and she convinced me I should move there and become a duel-citizen. I came very, very close to doing so. What I respected most about the process at that time (late 80s) was that Australia required an "economic need" for an immigrant prior to allowing citizenship. Gosh, what a concept....if only America was as prudent as that.

Cheers,

Spectic Tank Yank (an endearment I have heard all too often Down Under)

[marechols]

I have not read anything or heard anything that convinces me that we don't worship the same God, regardless of what we call Him/Her/It...

I guess I am just trying to light a fire under fatalists who shrug and say that is the way it is. Of course it is if we sit and let it happen.

My best friend is a Wiccan Priestess. We discuss our beliefs openly with each other and respect each other's 'religious' affiliations.

It just makes us part of who we are. She was sent to me by the Almighty, of that I have no doubt. Not for me to try and 'convert' her, but to understand and respect her beliefs as being as equally important as my own.

You CAN'T tell me that the God of ALL creation, the One who made us and everything around us out of the same 4 DNA molecules, the One who created ALL this diversity of cultures only made ONE way to Him. Why on earth would He do that?!

If we all became just alike, we would surely bore Him senseless!! How can anyone even think that? That has to originate from a control freak (and we all know a few of those, dont we?). I do not disrespect God like that...

*stepping down off of my soapbox, brushing it off and tucking it back under my arm*

Thank you all for your input and especially for your prayers!

[RevRainbow]

There is a small island in the South Pacific who's people are referred to as the Cargo Cult. I posted about this a couple of years ago.

Then there are the Jedi people.

And, of course, there are all the peoples of the world who worship something other than your God.

I post this with no disrespect to your beliefs. I simply point out that disparate belief systems are both good in terms of freedom and diversity, and bad in terms of the proclivity toward tolerance and peace, and of course the issue that they undermine religious veracity as a whole.

Dear Hooka, Perhaps I should mention, as I have stated times past, that when I use the term "God" by itself, I am using a generic definition of The Creator, whom some may believe is MY God, and others, THEIR God. We have different concepts of just Whom God is, and when you state that "no disrespect to my beliefs," I must assume you interpret my use of the word selectively. If I had said "My God," then you would be correct. But the response was replying to the purpose of Fawzo's milk carton test analogy.

While my God is the God of the Bible, I did not exclude yours, or anyone else's Gods (if indeed they be "other"), unless by cargo cult you inferred that some people worship milk cartons. If they have faith in that milk carton, then, let them do as they will. My point simply was, by conducting a test as mentioned by Fawzo, one cannot arrive at any conclusion without the "Faith Factor." Did those people in the test, truly beleive the milk carton would answer, or did they pray with sarcasm. And to what God did the others pray? Where they all Catholics, Fundamentalists, or a multi-faith group or even unbelievers with contempt for any specific God?

By no means, unless one is looking for debate, should my response have been understood as an indication that MY God is the only One who answers prayer. Yes, from my experience, MY God does answer prayer, but I cannot speak for someone else of a different faith who also prays in fervent faith. Many people pray to representative images, so, perhaps (I do not know) those praying to the milk carton, where using it as a representative image of their concept of God and not praying directly to it AS God, but merely a symbol OF God, which then could be merely a faith inducing visual concept. For instance, in Catholicism, people would deny they are actually praying to the statue of St. Peter, Paul or Mary, but rather using the statue as a visual representative concept. Indeed, it is not the statue of Jesus that answers prayer (at least it should not be).

Knowing on this forum one must walk on eggshells most of the time, it is difficult to make a point without incurring some negative response. To me, simply dropping a comment about a "test" of praying to a milk carton vs a generic God (with no reference or documentation to consider), can be taken as an insult quite easily. Yet, that is overlooked and my response to it critiqued in an unfavorable light. With no disrespect to the Cargo Cult,of which I am well aware, my point was simply that without faith, one cannot expect to have prayers answered. Fawzo's "test" was no doubt employed as a device to disprove effectual prayer and that is why I used the term of milk carton in the same context as the test.

I do agree with Robin, that on this forum, the Bible, and subsequently those who believe in its inspiration, seems to be, IMO, the most favored to be negatively criticized.

Edited December 6, 2010 by RevRainbow