Turnig Witches To Christ

[Fawzo]

Isn't turning Witches to Christ

on sort of an equal par with

Turning a CHRISTIAN into A FROG ???

Both sound like some sort of WITCHCRAFT to me

Or am I jest being WICCA'd ???

Made me wonder if Jesus turning water into wine wasn't a form of Witchcraft.

[Vortex]

Fawzo

First I liked to say that I don't see "chaos" as being evil at all since all ordered systems can arise from it. I do understand what you are suggesting and while anything is possible when conjecturing about God's mindest, your suggestion seems to paint God as schizophrenic.

What seems a little more plausible to me along those lines is that maybe God could have both a feminine and masculine aspect. The Anima and Animus where the Anima exhibits the loving kind compassion of the feminine that includes intuitive processes, creativity and imagination, and psychic sensitivity and the Animus which is all powerful the athlete/muscleman/thug and the professor/cleric — "the planner" and "the guide".

Hello Fawzo.

When I wrote "chaos", "evil", "neagtivitiy," I didn't expand on it to keep the post short. Anima.Animus is another way of wording it, which I'm in agreement with as well. But Anima/Animus does not limit itself to simple feminine/masculine characteristics as we identify. It goes much deeper than this. They are in reality forces, energies, that constantly struggle to maintain equillibrium between each other, and in so doing create influences and effects. And when we experience these effects, we give them labels according to how they affect us mentally, emotionally, and physiologically. You can for example, under the heading of Anima.Animus, say that when your blood Ph value is read, you are faced with the measure of two opposing forces--acid vs alkaline. Though both are needed for the entire physiology to survive, when one or the other transgresses the boundary of its opposite in too great a degree, one will experience either a heart attack from one side, or a stroke from the opposite side. We can of course label these effect as chaos, evil, etc., or whatever we so chose to. The psychological theory of Anima/Animus can be applied to anything, because all things we know are composed, or function, on the basis of opposites. Even walking up a set of stairs requires that you first press "down" in order to go "up." This is all the Gestault of life. So, it is not that I paint God as a schizophrenic entity at all. What I point out is the possibilty that within the "whole" of what God might be, He may be more conscious of one side of His power and His ability to apply it as opposed to a side of His nature that is under less conscious control. Thus, the effect between the two sides of His nature creates forces and effects that we little humans perceive as creation vs destruction, and label each effect over us based on their affects on us. But to God, those effects may be normal every day struggles within His creative eternal being. Now just as we do not enjoy what negativity generates within us when opposing forces are not in balance, it's possible that God too doesn't enjoy of what is generate from His nature that He must set out to correct and balance.

If one reads the story of Moses, for example. God offered Moses a deal, which was to destroy the disobedient Hebrews and create a "new" nation from Moses. Moses had to remind God of His promise to Abraham. So in creating humanity, we have to ask ourselves why didn't He create a people with Freewill who would also be able to perceive the effect of right and wrong choices? In this great experiement, something in God did not know what man would choose to do with his first choice under freewill. This then would infer a side of God's nature that is unknowing rather than knowing. Hence, what comes froth from Him in the soup of creaton must, in my mind, be from the unconsious side of His forces that afterward becomes the puddy for His creative work. In other words, something comes from witin Him that is the material He creates with, and He becomes conscious of it only after it has coe forth from Him.

[Vortex]

Dan54

Jesus demonstrated that he had absolute power over evil, and he knew no sin. "God is light, and in him is no darkness at all"(1 John 1:5).

God is all-knowing, but there is no evil in him. "For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee"(Psalms 5:4). God did not create evil itself, what he created was the potential for evil, because It exist within the freedom of choice. So evil emanates from within ourselves, it was not created by God. "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord"(Isaiah 55:8).

We are taugth that Jesus had absolute power over evil, and that he knew no sin. This is true. But what are we to actually understand from this? What is "evil?" Jesus demonstrated that evil and sin are conditions of inharmony within us that are based on our lack of understanding of God's spiritual laws. Jesus also said, "What I do ye can do also." "Be ye perfect as your father in heaven is perfect." These words are all founded on principles of spiritual laws that humanity in general fail to comprehend. The effects of sin and evil cannot dominate where spiritual laws of life and harmony are clearly understtod and put into force. So Jesus' mission, overall, was to make us aware of spiritual laws (commandments) available to us that would set things in motion in the right direction. If one then manages to hit on the right key, the right tone will sound. Christ came with an inborn understanding of what the correct key was and how to access it at will. But for us, it will always be a task because our own members war against us continuously. We were created this way. All his teachings have underlying truths in them that unfold to one's consciousness experientially. Otherwise, they simply remain words in a book. His spiritual teachings, must, as he said, "be made alive", and "written in the hearts of men."

God is all-knowing, but there is no evil in him.

Read what I wrote to Fawzo.

[BrDevon]

Made me wonder if Jesus turning water into wine wasn't a form of Witchcraft.

Nah.... He just worked for a really good catering company.

[Dan56]

What about all the verses where God repents for the evil thoughts and actions he incurred upon his chosen people???

I don't think you read those verses with much understanding? God is not indifferent in his judgments towards his people, he repents from harsh judgment when we repent from evil, and God repents from issuing blessings upon those who refuse to turn from evil.

"If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them" (Jeremiah 18:8&10).

[Fawzo]

I don't think you read those verses with much understanding? God is not indifferent in his judgments towards his people, he repents from harsh judgment when we repent from evil, and God repents from issuing blessings upon those who refuse to turn from evil.

"If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them" (Jeremiah 18:8&10).

10 And David's heart smote him after that he had numbered the people. And David said unto the LORD, I have sinned greatly in that I have done: and now, I beseech thee, O LORD, take away the iniquity of thy servant; for I have done very foolishly. 11 For when David was up in the morning, the word of the LORD came unto the prophet Gad, David's seer, saying, 12 Go and say unto David, Thus saith the LORD, I offer thee three things; choose thee one of them, that I may do it unto thee. 13 So Gad came to David, and told him, and said unto him, Shall seven years of famine come unto thee in thy land? or wilt thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue thee? or that there be three days' pestilence in thy land? now advise, and see what answer I shall return to him that sent me. 14 And David said unto Gad, I am in a great strait: let us fall now into the hand of the LORD; for his mercies are great: and let me not fall into the hand of man. 15 So the LORD sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning even to the time appointed: and there died of the people from Dan even to Beersheba seventy thousand men. 16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand 2 Sam 24:10-16 (KJV)

[Bro. Hex]

VERSE WARS...

I love it!

For every thrust, a parry.

For every Thou Shalt, a Thou Shant

This is SO MUCH BETTER than Trivial Pursuit!! !

[Dan56]

We are taugth that Jesus had absolute power over evil, and that he knew no sin. This is true. But what are we to actually understand from this? What is "evil?" Jesus demonstrated that evil and sin are conditions of inharmony within us that are based on our lack of understanding of God's spiritual laws. Jesus also said, "What I do ye can do also." "Be ye perfect as your father in heaven is perfect." These words are all founded on principles of spiritual laws that humanity in general fail to comprehend. The effects of sin and evil cannot dominate where spiritual laws of life and harmony are clearly understtod and put into force. So Jesus' mission, overall, was to make us aware of spiritual laws (commandments) available to us that would set things in motion in the right direction. If one then manages to hit on the right key, the right tone will sound. Christ came with an inborn understanding of what the correct key was and how to access it at will. But for us, it will always be a task because our own members war against us continuously. We were created this way. All his teachings have underlying truths in them that unfold to one's consciousness experientially. Otherwise, they simply remain words in a book. His spiritual teachings, must, as he said, "be made alive", and "written in the hearts of men."

I agree with a large part of what you wrote.

Read what I wrote to Fawzo.

I don't personally subscribe to the theory of Anima/Animus, at least not to where its applicable to God. I don't accept that there is an unconscious side of God or creation, whereby God was/is unknowing. Since God is omnipotent (Revelation 19:6), nothing can be unknown to him, otherwise he would not be God.

[Fawzo]

VERSE WARS...

I love it!

For every thrust, a parry.

For every Thou Shalt, a Thou Shant

This is SO MUCH BETTER than Trivial Pursuit!! !

Tis true nobody wins in verse wars, just wind up with a bunch of dead bored soldiers!

[Vortex]

I agree with a large part of what you wrote.

I don't personally subscribe to the theory of Anima/Animus, at least not to where its applicable to God. I don't accept that there is an unconscious side of God or creation, whereby God was/is unknowing. Since God is omnipotent (Revelation 19:6), nothing can be unknown to him, otherwise he would not be God.

Give the Anima/Animus a little more thought in relation to God. All things are possible are they not? Why would any human assume to know the totality of what God is or is not, or what "omnipotence" really means? "Omnipotence" (almighty), does not mean there are not opposites to His nature. It may very well be for all we know, that the two opposites (by whatever name one chooses to describe it) are elements that compose His "omnipotence." We see the example of this in "ALL" of His creation here on Earth and within us as well. Now you have to ask yourself why "omnipotence" would create things to function on a foundation of "opposites," unless it was not already integral to His nature. In our human ways, we understand "wrath" to be related "destructive" regardless of the reason it is issued for, which in God's case is the passing of "Judgement". Nevertheless, it is destruction as opposed to its opposite. on others as a negative idea, yet God displays wrath in His own constitution. So, He can demonstrate "wrath" as demonstrated with Sodom and Gomorrah and other situations, or He can demonstrate the opposite, "Blessing;" wrath vs blessing are polar opposites. Wrath is "aggressive" and "Blessing" is passive--Animus/Anima.

Regarding "Unknowing." In over 40 years of studying Biblical Scripture, I have learned many things about God's ways through His work on Earth and by having been a Creative Artist for as many years. Having been a professional commercial advertising artist and painter, I was faced with having to come up with concepts and ideas every single day, ideas that were not in my conscious mind to begin with. Every artists knows that ideas surface to the conscious level from that "unknown" creative space within, many times even from dreams. Every inventor, artist, musician, and scientist who has had to create, has experienced this. Before God creates anything, it must first be an idea in His thought. Otherwise, there would be no order to His creation. And we see throughout the entire universe that all creation can be interpreted by mathematics as far as the things humanity is capable of expressing. This is order, and order means form, and form displays opposites. The "unconscious" side of God is simple put, a part of His "Creative" process; that special space that all creative artists know but can't explain. The "omnipotence" of God, is to my mind, the outward manifestation of God's Creative process giving His idea form and motion--animating it into life.

Below is a direct Biblical demonstration of polar opposites in the Bible, stated by the son of David.

Ec:3:1: To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

Ec:3:2: A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

Ec:3:3: A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

Ec:3:4: A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

Ec:3:5: A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

Ec:3:6: A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

Ec:3:7: A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

Ec:3:8: A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

[Dan56]

The "unconscious" side of God is simple put, a part of His "Creative" process; that special space that all creative artists know but can't explain. The "omnipotence" of God, is to my mind, the outward manifestation of God's Creative process giving His idea form and motion--animating it into life.

I agree that there are different or opposite sides to God. As you pointed out, God has demonstrated his blessings as well as his wrath. When you previously wrote that there is an unconscious side to God, I thought you meant that there are things he doesn't know, or parts of creation he doesn't control. I suppose that those things which have not been created yet, could be labeled as unknown until the creative process is completed and creation is established. Its difficult to fathom how the mind of God works, its probably beyond our comprehension.

[Fawzo]

I agree that there are different or opposite sides to God. As you pointed out, God has demonstrated his blessings as well as his wrath. When you previously wrote that there is an unconscious side to God, I thought you meant that there are things he doesn't know, or parts of creation he doesn't control. I suppose that those things which have not been created yet, could be labeled as unknown until the creative process is completed and creation is established. Its difficult to fathom how the mind of God works, its probably beyond our comprehension.

Probably?!?!?!

We males can't even figure out the female mind yet. how we ever gonna know what goes on in the mind of deity. It is fun to speculate though.

[Atwater Vitki]

Please pray for me in my struggle. i am attempting to get two wiccans(witches)to turn to God. it has been a long battle but i am slowly beating the powers of satan.! i am winning with Gods help. however i need all the prayers i can get

Dear "saved",

How do you relate the powers of satan to Wicca? This has probably been addressed somewhere in the 140-150?? some odd responses prior, but THAT dear brother/sister is insulting. The "powers of Satan" in Wicca? Nope sorry, two completely different subjects and Subjects. Now IF you were converting, like the rice, a couple of Satanists....maybe it might apply.....maybe that's why I never liked "Uncle Ben's"????

Winning? Isn't that something better left on the ball field or Scrabble table? Converting is not "winning", it is the oppressive mark of "Satan" if you go by Scriptures, when anyone judges another, when anyone deems another NOT to be a child of "God".

When y'all gonna learn when people come crawling on hands and knees and ASK for Spiritual help, THEN it's time to OFFER some religious advice or even a story about "what worked for you". Converting is no less the "Devil's work" than the very things y'all term as being of the Devil, from Satan etc. Me thinks you should re-read and perhaps even better UNDERSTAND what you read in them thar 58 Chapters of personal feel good.

Blessings of Peace,

PS: Sorry everyone, I realize I'm six months late in finding this topic, but whoooo-eee does that light a fire under me cauldron when such ridiculous, TOTALLY IN MY OPINION, statements are made. Ever had a Wiccan, Druid or Pagan show up at your door asking if "You've been enlightened?" Noooo? Hm, gee think there might be REASON for that? Ya never will have 'door to door sales' on Pagan beliefs either.

[Atwater Vitki]

Wasn't there one of them hippie songs....Turn, Turn, Turn... in the 60's that said all this?

Ec:3:1: To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

Ec:3:2: A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

Ec:3:3: A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

Ec:3:4: A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

Ec:3:5: A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

Ec:3:6: A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

Ec:3:7: A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

Ec:3:8: A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of

.

[Bro. Hex]

Wouldn't "fairness" (a Christian value?) require

that someone here should be striving

"to turn two Christians to Wicca"?

Sounds fair to me!

[RevRainbow]

Just turn me towards the free food and beer!

[reverend irma]

It's been 9 months. I wonder how the conversion is going?

"You'll never take me alive!"

[Fawzo]

I had two Baptists knock on my door today....they left after 10 minutes rather hurredly for some reason.

[SilverRose]

topic reminds me of lil story I read about the little girl in Sunday School class... after the teacher told the story about Lot's wife being turned into a pillar of salt, the little girl said something similar had happened to her mother When the teacher asked her to explain how her mother turned into a pillar of salt, the girl said she was driving and turned into a telephone pole

(I'm guessing with my inability to relate stories, no one will think this is funny)

[RevRainbow]

topic reminds me of lil story I read about the little girl in Sunday School class... after the teacher told the story about Lot's wife being turned into a pillar of salt, the little girl said something similar had happened to her mother When the teacher asked her to explain how her mother turned into a pillar of salt, the girl said she was driving and turned into a telephone pole

(I'm guessing with my inability to relate stories, no one will think this is funny)

I think it's funny! Why is it every time I see your posts, SR, I have a craving for ice cream!