Dan56

Oh sure, the price is cheap, but are the customers satisfied?

"My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments: For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee. Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart: So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man. Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil." (Proverbs 3: 1-7 kjv) I think it means what it says, not much interpretation necessary.

Don't beat yourself up over a temporary setback, sounds like you've got bigger fish to fry right now. Nicotine is actually a mild sedative, it might be helpful in reducing the extra stress. Hope you get it all sorted out... Hang tough and good luck

I'm beginning to think that a person must be tolerant these days, the alternative is to lose your freaking mind I say, let the kkk clean-up freeway trash, it seems to suit them and its about time they did something constructive.

I completely agree.... And its not a thing easily learned. Also agree.... Hope is everything, one of the best parts of the human experience.

I agree that God kills, and he commanded his people to kill, but God forbids human sacrifice, he never condoned it and considers it an abomination (Jeremiah 32:35). Jesus voluntarily laid down his life for others; "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:13).

Well, I interpret it differently. Scripture is not clearly definitive here, but other scripture clearly states that God opposes sacrificing children. Since God condemns human sacrifice, it would be inconsistent to green light this execution. Plus, it would be out of character for Judges 11 to focus on the virgin aspect if that wasn't the ultimate outcome. I mean, how would all those verses proclaiming that the daughter would remain a virgin be relative if they were just going to kill her anyway? No where else do the Jews sacrifice people, a Levitical priest wouldn't do it imo. So I respectfully disagree with you and RabbiO. The covenant changed, not God. The ultimate sacrifice put us under grace, the penalties for breaking the law in the old covenant were paid and mercy was obtained. The law remains, but the curse of the law is of null-effect for Christians.

God, scripture, and fundamentalist have been vilified for quite some time, welcome to the club RabbiO Folks just don't think it was fair that the Pharaoh wasn't allowed to keep the Hebrew slaves for another 400 years. That terrible Moses freed them, and in this crowd, that makes him nearly as bad as that Lincoln dude And then of course there's that incident when that bully David picked on poor little Goliath! Its also difficult for some to understand why the Jews get upset every time a Palestinian missile attack showers Israel. You may be a compassionate mentor Rabbi, but why can't your fellow Jews just sit back and accept a little violence directed towards them like they did in Germany 50 years ago? Even now, Israel is a tad impatient with Iran, when all the Iranians are asking for is a little more time Seriously, keep your secret decoder ring and mentor badge. If your faith is right and your G-d is true, than the critics have a bigger need of a compassionate Rabbi than they realize. I can go along with that (killer)... But I think 'murderer' would better define the one who set up the Nazi death camps.

I responded to the question; "So then Dan it is still morally fine with God if we kill off whole nations of people who don't believe" Your examples reverted back to old covenant law, all of which applied to the Israelites. God had a divine purpose to be especially strict by forbidding idolatry. Even then, only a remnant of his people remained to usher in Messiah. I agree, God brought the hammer down when his people turned to other gods. But my answer was 'No' because we are under the new covenant now. I not only read it, I understand it.. I wasn't justifying smashing children's heads against rocks, and neither was God. God did not order it, so he doesn't need to justify anything. That was my point. I completely disagree with your interpretation of Judges 11, Jephthah's daughter was not sacrificed but remained celibate the rest of her life "he had vowed:and she knew no man" (verse 39). Yes, A&E died to eternal life when they sinned. Sin separates us from God, its his rules, but our choice. If you want access to the Tree of Life, just don't sin............ Its sooooo simple Its all the same God to me. Jesus came as the sacrificial lamb and did not render judgement in the sense of condemnation, but Revelation has him returning a second time in judgement, and that's when we'll see that OT personally at full throttle. So you think General Patton was a murderer for going after Adolf?

No, its not fine with God if we kill those who don't believe. Did Jesus kill nonbelievers? You might be thinking of Allah? "O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones." (Psalm 137:8&9) God is foretelling the future here, he isn't giving orders to the Israelites.The Babylonians had been very cruel to Israel and everyone else, and it would be the Medes and Persians who would extend the same type of cruelty against Babylon as they had dished-out to others. Whoever said God was our great protector? Pain and suffering is due to the absence of God, we were separated from the Tree of Life and left to a world of flesh, sin, and hardship. God didn't design that for us, we chose it. What charges would you bring against God? That he hates wickedness and sin, or that God had a problem with societies that sacrificed their own children? Boy, the nerve of God to intercede against unrighteousness run-amuck.

Moses didn't pick-up a sword, its the actions of God that would be on trial..... And good luck with that! The morality (righteousness) of God doesn't change because the character of God doesn't change (Hebrews 13:8)

Is knowing and not doing better or worse than doing and not knowing? Its worse Is it worse to notice the need and ignore it or provide the necessary assistance - but only if you someone ASKS you first Its worse When faced with a need knowing you have ability to render assistance would you tend towards careful consideration of what will happen to you first before you act or does that response fall far short of the example of the Good Samaritan who acted without hesitation believing if I don't/ who will? Yes, always consider possible repercussions Is it more harmful to hit another with your fist or with your tongue? Fist What is the difference between a miracle, Karma and good luck that remarkably beat the odds? A miracle is divine intervention, the others aren't. Is it more desirable to have unquestioning faith, blind tolerance , or unconditional kindness? Unquestioning faith

The founders didn't need it, they lived it. Many came from countries of tyranny, so perhaps freedom and liberty meant more to them than it does to those today who take it all for granted.

I don't have a problem with any of it.... Those that do can always leave or just be content to stand for nothing. Imagine if our founding Fathers had the attitude of; I've got no allegiance to my country, all that 'liberty and justice for all' crap is for the birds, the flag represents nothing to me, Francis Scott Key can choke on it, and God, he never blessed the richest country on earth, we should all divide-up and pledge nothing. We can be thankful that the generations which preceded us had the character, honor, respect, and loyalty to uphold the words that so many today refuse to utter. jmo

What I believe is black and white and I have little to no doubt about it. 'Certainty' is a strength when its true, but a disaster when its not. I doubt that anyone is comfortable with shades of gray and doubt, we all want to know what's what. I am what I believe, the truth I've accepted defines me.

I guess when it comes to not judging others, understanding others, and having compassion for others, there is no wrong. Fortunately, the Rabbi had a better understanding of the cabbies situation than his own minister who advised him to dump the wife who loved and stood by him. Some things are a matter of fact and can be right or wrong, but most things are a matter of taste, opinion, preference, and common sense. Its probably why God insist on being the judge, its a job that's slightly out of our realm of expertise.

Perfect answer...... Nearly everyone else said they would kill to protect themselves or loved ones, I had wondered if anyone would kill to protect someone they didn't even know. That's very unselfish I'm a little surprised that you wouldn't want to kill some of those nasty people who dump their cats.

Frustration, anger, greed, revenge, jealousy, control, inconvenience, protection, defense, money, property, religion, war, and a host of other things cause people to kill. I'd kill to protect, defend, and in war. I think all other reasons to take a life are illegal, except inconvenience (abortion). JMO

Trust me, I got the point. You are probably correct, in that I made a broad assumption that everyone would react similarly under certain circumstances. I did not single out any specific individual, but evidently under-estimated that some would take it so personal. For that, I apologize, it certainly wasn't my intention to be offensive. Right or wrong, it was just my general opinion. I still think that given the choice of living or dying, that most people would steal some food in order to live, but apparently there are a few who wouldn't steal under any circumstances. I'll try not to use 'extreme' examples anymore to make a point. I don't believe I'm touchy and I was never insulted. I just didn't understand your logic in asserting that if Dan would steal some food to feed a starving child, that Dan would also molest a child. The two acts didn't correlate because the first helps a child while the second was detrimental. Thanks for explaining that it was just a sarcastic rebuttal, I can appreciate that.

Yes, I believe the point I was making went over your head. If I sound like a sociopath, its only because you've taken everything out of context to make me sound that way? Get your mind out of the gutter, I mentioned none of those things you listed. What exactly does molestation, torture, or rape have to do with survival? Or money? Re-read my post to get a better grasp of the content. I gave specific examples of what I was referring to. I won't rehash it, but my simple point was that if you had the choice of stealing a loaf of bread or starving to death, most people would resort to theft to survive. I did say under 'certain circumstances', which did not include molesting children... How would that feed anyone anyway? Your logic is flawed, not mine. I noticed that those of you who disagree with me could not and will not answer my simple question, that's because your answer would only provide affirmation that what I'm saying is true. By the way, you wrote; "I would eat domesticated animal flesh, such as cat or dog..... I would eat human flesh.....I would have sexual relations" So you would eat your dog, resort to cannibalism, and prostitute yourself out for a buck... And you think I'm a sociopath?

Yes, I'm aware that people all over the world struggle without breaking laws. My imaginary scenario was simply that given the choice of stealing a little food or dying, most people would resort to theft. If people are getting through hard times without starving to death, that's a whole other scenario, and I wasn't referring to them. In the case of theft or death, it becomes a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils. I still believe that people under those harsh circumstances would do what's necessary to keep their families alive, and that's not a bad thing, I'd do it myself. So its not a matter of worshipping money, it was a question of what you would be willing to do without money in an extreme life or death situation. Many here were listing what they would not be willing to do for a million dollars. My whole point was that circumstances usually dictate what a person would do, and I used an extreme example to demonstrate what I meant. I never dreamed that others would find the idea of stealing a loaf of bread to save a child to be offensive. The responses had nothing to do with the reality of what I unsuccessfully tried to present... I regret bringing it up. My comment "What a fine bunch of ministers we are" was a joke, thus the smiley face. Simply stated; If you could only save a child by stealing, but refused to steal and allowed the child to die, would you feel proud of yourself? Or would you have an easier time living with yourself knowing that you broke a rule to save a life? If people would choose the former, then I guess I was wrong about human nature.

Lighten-up, my comments were not specifically directed towards you. I said nothing about you being out of work or having to struggle.. Paid your own medical bills? Good for you. I'm glad you paid your own bills and found a job after being poor for 4 months, but I said absolutely nothing about you or anyone else's lack of work ethic being the result of choices they made. My whole opinion was that if a person was in a position where they would die or they could steal a loaf of bread and survive, they would most likely resort to theft and live. Can you honestly say that if you had a little 4 year old girl, that you would watch her starve to death rather than steal her a little food? I was not attacking anyone's character or their ethics, I was simply making a general comment that most people would break laws under certain circumstances. The fact that you never broke any laws during hard times is honorable, sorry if I unintentionally hurt your pride. Let me rephrase my assumption; "When push comes to shove, every individual puts themselves and their own family first, and given the correct circumstances, every individual would harm others for a little money, Jesus and Brother Devon excluded".

So, the bottom line is, that if our situation was dire enough, everyone of us would cheat, steal, and break every rule in the book for a buck. What a fine bunch of ministers we are When push comes to shove, every individual puts themselves and their own family first, and given the correct circumstances, every individual would harm others for a little money, Jesus excluded. I guess that's what separates the Shepherd from the flock. When it comes to survival, there's really not much difference between humans and animals. JMO

A better question might be; "What would you do for money?" Assume you are destitute, not a dime to your name, no where to sleep, and haven't eaten in 4 days. What would you do for a little money under those circumstances? I have a feeling that most of us would put our high sounding morals on a shelf and cross some boundaries that we wouldn't otherwise consider. People do what they have to do to survive. Wouldn't most of us cheat, steal, break laws, and lower our moral standards in order to sustain ourselves and our families? If it came down to 'Steal a loaf of bread or die', what wouldn't you do for money?