Jonathan H. B. Lobl

I suppose its better to believe in no gods than to believe in the wrong one. Spoken like a true believer. You have not yet established, that your God is the right one. Or that a different God is the wrong one. you can't or won't believe in anything...period. Back to that again? How very tedious of you. Belief is your best guess to unanswered questions, while believing nothing is surrendering to what can't be factually known. One honest question mark, is worth ten thousand dishonest exclamation points. If you don't know, don't pretend. I know when I don't know. I am honest enough to admit when I don't know. It's the Secular way. You still can't tell the difference between natural process and accident. Not that it matters. We are not talking about Cosmology. Still, nice attempt at deflection. Not caring about silly, irrelevant and meaningless meta-physics is not "hopeless". It's a time saver.

Belief is not knowing. Belief is not fact. Belief is opinion. My opinion is different. A gentleman does not make threats.

I remember my Pantheist days. I had convictions about God being the totality of existence. You insisted on calling me an unbeliever. It was a very small influence on my development, but it was real. You might not remember. But I do. At the time, your calling me an unbeliever got me angry. Angry enough that I actually examined my beliefs. I started asking myself questions. Questions like -- What do I really believe? Why do I believe these things? What do I actually know about God? What does anybody actually know about God? Is my evidence objective? When I had my answers, I discovered that I was an Atheist, meaning that I really didn't believe in God. You were a tiny part of my development, but you were there for me when I needed a push. You did not push out of kindness. At the time, I was impressed by your meanness. But it was a push that I needed. Somehow, I find it difficult to be grateful. As to your influence on the lives of others on this board -- it is not for me to say. Still, I expect that you have had more impact than you know. Not what you intended, but an influence.

How about me? Don't wait for the rapture. Go now and take your bigotry with you.

What moderators? If the board has one; someone is asleep at the switch.

No thanks. We know what happened to Jesus. That must really hurt. If this is what happens to God's sons; I want no part in this.

Can you leave today?

Life has it's little jokes. You may remember me, from the days when I was an easy going Pantheist. You, were a liberal Christian. Life among pious Fundamentalists, has made me much more extreme than I was. Dan in particular, but there are others. Perhaps, I should be grateful? No. Not grateful. They were not being kind. But they helped me get where I am. Life's little joke. The Fundamentalists on this board, are doing way more than we are, to spread Atheism. Even, anti-theism.

Thank you for the thought. It helps, not being alone.

I said -- "You never change.". You do not personify truth.

We have already had this discussion. You never change. Perhaps you would like to make a formal complaint to the Board?

Please. A moment of clarity. I'm not calling you a racist. I'm calling you an antisemitic bigot. The distinction is worth making. Yes. The Word of God. What a wonderful way to spread bigotry. What a wonderful way to spread antisemitism. You find my words offensive? You sweet, warm, wonderful bigot, you. Good. I suggest you complain to the Board's administration. Seriously. This is not a taunt. I want you to complain. The results should be interesting.

Such statements never stop. Atheists believe in Science. Atheists believe in Evolution. Atheists believe in the Big Bang. Atheists believe in the Multi-Verse. Atheists believe in nothing. Atheists are of the Devil. Atheists just want to sin. Atheists hate God. Atheists lack proof. Atheists are arrogant. What if you're wrong? If Evolution is true, how come there are still monkeys? If the Big Bang is true, what banged? You all are just lying. How could everything come from nothing? There's no love in you. Without God, what's to stop you from raping and murdering? You're going to burn in Hell, forever and ever. Don't you want to go to Heaven? Agnostics don't know what they believe. Agnostics can't make up their minds. Agnostics are on the fence. Agnostics don't know nothin' Then, there is my least favorite of all I don't have enough faith to be an Atheist. Of course, there are others. This is what comes to mind, without having to think about it. A small sample.

I'm waiting to see if the administration ignores this hate speech. Well???

Over time, I have been discovering that the different labels lead to different arguments. Mostly futile. When I used the Agnostic label, I was greeted with questions about -- What would it take to make up your mind? Or philosophic nonsense about the limitations of knowledge. In general, it leads to the underlying assumption that I'm searching for answers. For these and other reasons, I have found the label to be more trouble than it's worth. The Atheist label has been poisoned. It should be useful. A simple statement of non-belief. The pious insist that it's a positive statement of disbelief. You saw this from Dan. I have seen worse. I joined some Atheist groups on Facebook. We were constantly spammed with demands that we "prove" there is no God. Because "I don't believe" gets twisted into an assertion that Atheism doesn't make. Of course: Spam arguments about objective morality. Because God. Spam arguments about evolution theory. Because God. Spam arguments about Cosmology. Because God. Truly mindless arguments about -- "Why do you hate God so much" or "Atheists just want to sin." or "Atheist are lying because the truth is written on our hearts." Dan is far from unique. The worst thing about arguing with all the stupidity, is that it keeps repeating. Each new fool makes the same demands -- the same arguments -- offers the same proof -- yet again. For the first time. It's numbing at the same time that it's annoying. Which is why I found myself driven to Apatheism. Because I'm tired of arguing with the stupid and the crazy. Because I can't do it any more. Because the meta-physics and the philosophy arguments, have taken too much out of me. In the end, Religion fades into Mythology. It is the arc of history. Reality prevails.

Yes. Anything to spread confusion and steal legitimacy; about the people who jumped off the religious band wagon.

A comforting lie. Used for control, manipulation and extortion. Despite the myth being based on fantasy. Then, it matters, to the churches, the government, manipulators and other power brokers. Certainly, when a man is kneeling in prayer, it is simple to pick his pocket. An anti anxiety medication. Like alcohol. Or marijuana. Or a numbing agent, like Lidocaine. I suppose the various intoxicants and numbing agents do matter. It's not what I had in mind, but alright. You might have noticed. I lack piety.

Alright.

The One God with many names is not a new thought. It's a very old thought. The question remains. Does it matter? Why does it matter?

That's a good thought. If you do hear the cat, open the box quickly and give the cat some water. If you don't hear anything, give a sniff. If it smells like death, you don't want to look.

Please. Pay attention this time. But Atheists claim there is no God I make no such claim. You insist that this is my position. Pay attention this time. That is not my position. Atheism draws the conclusion 'there are no gods', You keep saying that. No. This is not the Atheist position. No matter how many times you get it wrong -- it will still be wrong. "There is no God" Again, that is not the Atheist position. Your constant assertion that it is, does not make it so. In summary: 1. The concept of Atheism is clearly beyond your grasp. I'm tired of explaining Atheism to you. It's truly an exercise in futility. It's my own fault. I used to be a substitute Public School teacher, with a license in Special Ed. (CRMD) Children with Retarded Mental Development. It was my personal conceit, that I could explain simple things to anyone. Clearly, I was mistaken. 2. Your ideas about Agnosticism are a little off. Close enough to try and work with, but not while discussing Atheism. You can only handle one idea at a time. Maybe. 3. I'm going to focus on Apatheism. It seems to generate the least amount of confusion.

True. The article itself does make a distinction between Atheists and Nones. Still, it is a cultural indicator for change. It's not definitive, but it still brings comfort. At least, it brings me comfort.

I'm starting to understand Dan. There is no room in his mind for ambiguity. It all comes down to faith -- and the faith requires absolute certitude. He is incapable of understanding a lack of certitude -- either for or against. There is no room for nuance. There is no room for shades of grey. Such a mind does not distinguish between "innocent" and "not guilty." (or "not guilty" and "complete vindication") It is all or nothing. All in or all out. He can not understand "neither". He can not understand "both". He will not understand this reply. Let us not confuse rigid minds, with subtleties beyond their comprehension. I'm going with Apatheist. Because it doesn't matter and I don't care. For real. It's Dan. Do you care what he thinks? I've tried and I'm done. A small aside. Dan can't understand, how it's possible, to be Agnostic and Atheist at the same time. You think he's going to get Schrodinger's Cat? A bit of folk wisdom. Never try to teach a pig to sing. The attempt is doomed to fail and it will annoy the pig.

Yes, to both Cuchulain and to Key. I know a little bit, about The All Father, with his one eye and two ravens. How he constantly walks about the world of men, in disguise. Judging the heroes who might be worthy of Valhalla. Woe unto the world. For Ragnorock is coming; when the living will envy the dead. When the Mighty Thor and the Mitgard Serpent will destroy each other in battle. When even the gods will perish -- and all of Humanity with them. Then the cycle begins all over again. With the man and woman, set aside by Father Odhin, against this future need.