Jonathan H. B. Lobl

This is a great truth. At the same time, it is not the peaceful majority, that make the laws and the wars and the social climate. The majority of Catholics were peaceful people who never wanted the Inquisition. The majority of Muslims were never Islamists. Yet here we are. Consider the Mafia. I remember a time when people insisted that the Mafia did not exist. That the fantasy of the Mafia was a defamation against Italians. In truth -- The Mafia was and is real. It was only when Italians faced up to this that society made progress against the Mafia. We are not going to deal with the Islamists -- or any other variety of religious extremism -- or organized crime -- or government -- until we can be honest about who is doing what to the world. If we can't be honest, nothing will be resolved and things will get worse.

My extended family has disowned me. Religion was not a core issue.

Just so. The two words have different meanings. Some people are both. It adds to the confusion.

Tibetan Buddhists understand their gods. Medicine Buddha personifies healing. Wisdom Buddha personifies wisdom. There is no worship.

In the end, congratulations. Clearly, you traded up.

Much like "God", "Chi" is an elusive concept. So is "energy" outside of physics. So is "spirit" and "Spirit". None to be confused with "spirits". Then we have "spiritual" which does not help understanding. What then is "soul"? We don't have the words in common.

Sometimes, it's subtle. Like being afraid of losing your friends. Or worse. Finding out your friends don't like you any more. Or the good will is there, but there is nothing left to discuss.

Yes. It does. Which kills the point of the label. Try saying "Witch" to a Fundamentalist Christian. See what kind of peaceful, rational discussion, you get about living in harmony with Nature. Take the same Fundamentalist. Say "Agnostic". Does this signify someone who is rational and open minded? Or someone who is indecisive and needs help seeing the "Light"? In Saudi Arabia, "Agnostic" gets people killed. No matter what label we use, it will be misconstrued, turned inside out and used against us.

A joke: "There are thee kinds of people. Those who understand math And those who don't."

How very sad. You might have shared being Druid with her. What a wasted opportunity for bonding. For closeness. If only she had said something.

It's amazing, how many half wits begin by demanding -- Prove there is no God ! They can't even define God, but somehow, you are expected to disprove it. Life is too short for silly arguments with true believers. I can't be bothered. I'm starting to think the best label is Apatheist. As in, "Screw it all. I don't care.",

In the abstract this is true. A label doesn't matter. On the other hand, if people who hear your label hear something awful -- like immoral scum -- maybe it does make a difference.

We were discussing the follies of American Education. Genesis is not a Science text. If we teach Genesis as a Science text, it will weaken American science education. It will also open up American Education to world wide ridicule. Rightfully so. That is what is wrong with that.

I have not studied astral projection. In hindsight, I remember a few people who were into it. A very small sample. Still...... The few people that I knew who were into astral projection/travel, had weight problems. They were fat. In hindsight, I'm wondering if astral projection makes people fat, or if it was coincidence.

Sometimes, stereotypes are based on reality. Not always. Sometimes.

Responses vary. I've also seen people freak out over the energy and get upset. Some people are not ready to have their ideas of reality challenged. Yes. I said that. The Agnostic thinks that people need to be exposed to more reality, than they know about.

"Most things"? Well, many things.

Like so many other religious questions. Opinions are many and diverse; and facts are few indeed. We are not going to come to any conclusions, until we can define the basic terms. Even then, I see much diversity and little agreement.

Interesting. We have come to an important distinction. Belief and Knowledge. Knowledge is what we actually know, based on evidence. Belief, for all the passion that belief and faith summon -- is just an opinion. This is why I prefer Agnosticism over Atheism. As an Agnostic, I can have an intelligent discussion about what we know; and how we know it. As an Atheist, all I can say is -- I don't believe that. It's valid, but not interesting.

Betsy DeVos. Brace yourself. She wants Creationism taught in science class.

A practical application is walking into a grocery store and making a simple purchase. A 25 cent bag of chips is half an ounce. (4/8) A 50 cent bag of chips is 7/8 of an ounce. (7/8) People can't do a simple doubling and see that they are being cheated out of 1/8 ounce. Our schools have failed us. I don't mean higher math. I mean basic survival math.

The structure of the board is still being established. I'm trying to avoid gumming things up. If we can figure out where to take that, I will be happy to resume. Regarding the soul -- we can include the rest of Nature. If Humans have souls, so do the other creatures. That is a big if. I don't know that souls exist. I don't know that souls don't exist. The objective evidence is lacking. In this matter, I am firmly Agnostic. I am firmly persuaded that Humanity is not outside of the Natural Order. Either we all have souls, or none of us have souls. I also do not mean to limit this to animal kind. It seems to me that trees are as much entitled to a soul as I am.

I still don't know why I had to suffer through any of it. Even then, nobody gave me a reason regarding real application to anything.

1. I take it as a given that all scripture -- ALL scripture -- was produced by people. How odd that God -- All powerful, All knowing, etc. etc. -- should need human scribes. Would be confounded by translation problems. Yes. Translation problems. Consider how different translations of the opening lines of Genesis change everything. "In the beginning, God created Heaven and the Earth." "In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth." "In the beginning, God began creating the Heavens and the Earth." Just the opening lines. A serious comparison would be a huge undertaking. Each minor difference makes a huge difference. 2. Humanism is Atheism with philosophy. Atheism is not religion. I would be pleased to argue that point. I don't think this is the thread for it.

A claim that I have seen over the years -- is that the Earth is not a perfect sphere. It is egg shaped. I remember the term as "Obloid Sphere". If we have an argument between a Flat Earther; and someone who insists that the Earth is a perfect sphere, We end up with a false binary. This should appeal to your sense of humor. Sometimes, all the extremists are mistaken.