Jonathan H. B. Lobl

That was interesting. Thank you. Do you see a trend here?

If I were to set out on a search for Big Foot, I would have to deal with some inconsistencies. Size, weight, fur color, region, etc. Still, I would have some vague notion -- at least -- of what I was looking for. Seriously, God -- souls -- I've got nothing to go on. Nothing. Well, stories. If I want to be generous, these stories count as mythology. Otherwise, they are fantasy. Badly written fantasy at that. At least, if I say unicorn, we can agree on the basic characteristics, of the creature in question.

Please. We are both beyond mob mentality. I know you are. It is still possible to take an intellectual stand against mental illness. Of course, that now leaves me open to the accusation of calling religion "mental illness." It's not true, but I expect it.

I think it depends, at least partly, on classification. If God is part of the Natural order, then yes. Anything that is part of Nature can be understood. If not now, then in the indeterminate future. If God is Supernatural, then no. Supernatural things can not be known, if they exist at all. The same deal with souls. As an Agnostic -- capital A -- I hold that all real things are part of the Natural order. If God exists, (big if) -- then God is part of the Natural order. Of course, neither God nor souls have been defined. Looking for something that has no definition is not useful.

I was speaking of Damnation doctrine as terrorism. The stand I was urging you to take is mental. Did you think I was telling you to take up arms?

That's nice, but the "knowledge" quest here is God and souls. Do you still think such "knowledge" is possible?

We are losing the distinction between taking a course to learn -- and taking a course to get a degree. Taking a course just to learn is fully valid. If the student wants a useful degree -- the degree needs to be useful. Generally, that means accredited. At this point in my life, I think the best place to get knowledge is the Public Library. There are no credentials, but in all other ways, it is the best possible deal.

It's a thought. The person to discuss that with is Amy over at ULC Seminary.

That was impressive. You do good work.

I'm not in a position to say how easy the work is. To be useful, the accrediting agency must be, in turn, recognized by the U. S. Dept. of Education. Unless of course, you plan to work for a church that does recognize the accrediting agency. None of them are doctoral programs.

Please -- some examples. I would like to know what you think of as being ridiculously easy. You did say, accredited?

No. You're not wrong. They would have to start from the ground up. It's not going to happen. The ordinations and the honorary D.D.s are court tested. Beyond that -- caution. You don't want to be the one who makes history.

When I still thought a convention might be possible, I located the Modesto Chamber of Commerce. They sent me some promotional material about Modesto -- including a list of the local churches. ULC was not on the list. The ULC Mother Church not on the Modesto Chamber of Commerce list? That's some serious indifference.

A few years back, there was a members push to resume the October conventions. Andre made it clear that it was up to the members to put together a convention. I might add, if you visit the ULCHQ site; they are still looking forward to the 2006 convention. This board has life in it. As for HQ -- it's like dancing with a corpse.

No. I'm saying that an "earned degree" -- that stinks of fraud -- is a bomb. It can go off at any time and have serious consequences. It is legal for the ULC to sell us their Ph.D. If we are foolish enough to use it, the church won't face the consequences. We will. An additional observation. In the event of such a problem, old Kirby would have jumped into it. I am convinced that Andre will not get involved, no matter what.

When a church has a hierarchy at all -- this already makes a statement about values and authority.

This is true. Further, life gets interesting when someone decides that they have been lied too -- and takes the case to court. It's then called, "intent to deceive". Then the court decides on "intent". Say, someone hires me as a Reiki practitioner. Were they impressed by my status as a minister? Not a problem as long as I state where I was ordained. Was my earned doctorate in metaphysics a factor in the decision? Well, now we have a shade of grey. What was my intent in advertising this? Whether the case has merit or not -- it takes one unhappy customer to ruin your day. And one Assistant District Attorney who's in a bad mood. Call me paranoid. The Law is a strange beast -- and I think we need to be careful.

An honorary degree is a good will offering. An earned degree is a credential. It signifies academic accomplishment. I think this is similar to someone who never joined the military -- then makes up a story about being a war hero. It's called "stolen valor".

Everybody here is a U.L.C. minister. It produces some amusing stories. Other than that, it has not changed my life. Well, ULC is Interfaith. Maybe something more specific? I took some Reiki training from a school with dual corporate status. They were both a school of Reiki and a church of spiritual healing. They ordained me. It made even less difference. I find that being an Agnostic minister means something to me. Nobody else cares. There is no point at all in trying to be inclusive. I expect that Catholic Bishops, for example, find being clergy to be a different experience.

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations This is a well known passage from Genesis. (KJV) Notice, "Spirit" has a capital "S". This is a theological statement. If that one letter S is changed to lower case, the whole meaning shifts. Needless to say, the Jewish translations use a different word.

Not at all. Why would you want to take a stand against terrorism? Or terrorists? You are under no obligation to take a stand. None at all.

I refuse to be terrorized into submission. Grow a spine. Take a stand. I can be killed. Fear is optional.

Yes. One inerrant word. Oops.

You have a good vision of the future. To bring it into being will require the Medical world to change as well.

It is a poor basis for social harmony. However -- This is not an either or binary. Should I be in terror of the Christian Hell for non-Christians? Or should I be afraid of the Muslim Hell for non-Muslims? I prefer a different solution. Screw all the terrorists with their fear based doctrines. I repeat. All of them. While I'm at it, screw all the secular minded, who can't tell the pious terrorists where to stick it.