Jonathan H. B. Lobl

Do you remember dating norms? I may be showing my age here. If the first three dates went well, the third or fourth might end with a good night kiss. No groping. Just a kiss. "Putting out" was not an expectation or even a possibility. That died about forty years ago. It's been a long time since I've done any dating. Now, it's scary.

I don't know who said it. "Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all your self."

The person who has been wronged needs to release anger over the wrong. This is not the same as forgiveness. Asking the wronged person for forgiveness, also serves emotional health. This is why A.A. asks the recovering drunk to make amends. The Catholic confessional regards God as an injured party. Obviously, I don't agree.

When I was new to Facebook, I joined several Atheist groups. To my surprise, the Atheists spent very little time talking to each other. "We" were constantly being trolled by Christians and Muslims who thought that all the damned souls were gathered together -- for their convenience. Some of them engaged in "preach and run." They would sermonize, or quote their Scripture -- Bible or Koran -- then flee the temple of evil. Others would try reapeatedly, over time, to enlighten the poor damned heathen. They were genuinely surprised by their "rude" reception. Then, there were the intellectuals, who would ask the same stupid questions as though for the first time. "If evolution is real, how come there are still monkeys?" Or "How come the Universe exists instead of nothing?" There was a big list of these questions. Always, the same questions. Or, "Prove to me that there is no God." Or, "Give me your top three arguments against God, so that I can refute them." It's pretty much the same crap -- that I've always gotten from face to face missionaries. It never ends. The only real difference is that now, I'm getting lectures from Muslims and Christians, instead of Just Christians. It never changes and it never ends. I'm not as nice as I used to be. I'm worn down and I don't care any more. I'm done with pretending that I care what they think. The exception is this board. With a few exceptions.

I wasn't even thinking of divorce. Since you brought up divorce, no. I also don't see a causal relationship between more divorce and mating rituals. If anything, there is more divorce, because people are more honest. They refuse to stay married to someone that they can't stand to be with. To my memory, "dating" -- at least in the beginning, was different. There was more talk and less sex. When there was sex, it was more gradual in unfolding. I found it more comfortable. I had a sense of what was expected. I had a sense of norms. There was a focus on getting to know more about each other. When people were not compatible, they found out more quickly, without things becoming more committed. Breakups were swift and less traumatic. People simply didn't date each other when there was nothing there. Now, there are no norms. At least, I don't know of any. I miss norms.

I sometimes marvel at the depth of some customs. I'll be in the middle of a civil service exam. I do not want to get caught by the proctor, in anything that might be construed as cheating. I'll sneeze. From behind me, I hear "Bless you". Someone had to respond to my sneeze, risking the proctor's wrath? Yes. They did. Further, I felt a strange guilt in not saying -- "Thank you.".

And getting older by the second.

Some of the old rules were helpful. Even when we ignored the rules, we knew what they were. What did happen to dating?

Orch or on Youtube: There is a lot of material on Youtube on the subject of Orch Or. The subject matter is quantum consciousness. The video that made the most sense to me, was the one that insisted that Orch Or is bull **. (From the standpoint of physics)

If we are going there, the sole is the bottom of the foot. Also a tasty fish. And the capital of South Korea.

In very loose terms, I would say that the soul is what survives the death of the body. Let us find this. Then we can figure out what it is.

What language are they speaking ? Why does it stink of cultishness? My b-s detector is going off big time.

Now that you've asked -- I don't know. Perhaps my reasoning is flawed. I don't have an answer. Is there a reason to think that somebody does know? Or might know? Distinct from thinking that they know, and being mistaken?

This is similar to my understanding of Agnosticism. When death comes, there are only two possibilities. Either there is something that happens next -- or nothing happens next. If there is something that happens next, we may or may not find out, depending on what it is. If sentience continues, then we will find out. If sentience does not continue, we won't find out. If nothing happens next, then we will never know. Best to enjoy this life while we have it. It is the only life we can be sure of. Above all, we must not let our selves be intimidated, by people who insist that they know what the answer is. No. They don't. They may believe that they know. They are mistaken. Nobody knows. Belief is not knowledge. If any real evidence comes up, I will be happy to reevaluate everything. I do mean EVERYTHING. It has to be real evidence. Not this humbug.

Yes. You and Von. Being reasonable again. Arguing with facts.

The most hard core of materialists, would agree that we process and store stuff in our brains. It's not really pushing the boundary.

The sad thing here, is that I would love to be convinced, with real evidence, that I have a soul. Alas, what really sets off my bull crap detector, is when people adopt the language of science, without actually talking science. A prime example is the author of this piece, talking about "quantum state". Does the author even know what "quantum state" means? It's all very sciency but it's not science. It was a lovely thought and I thank you for the effort. If you find something with more substance, I would love to see it.

If only Justice were simple.

I would be thrilled if such proof of the soul actually existed. That would be wonderful. As it is, what did they prove? That death brings about physical changes? I can contain my excitement. Even if they found the receptor site where the soul resides -- they call this proof?-- it still remains to establish that something continues to exist. Seriously? A dead body loses it's quantum state? It's called decay.

Yes. It is. We want to be kind. We want to be just. Sometimes, the path forward is so bent, there are no good choices.

Sometimes, the punishment should fit the crime. A repeat drunk driver should be supplied with a limitless supply of vodka. After he drinks himself to death, the problem is over. So much cheaper than long term confinement. The best part is, punishment is self administered. I do think this is consistent with what Rev. Cali advocated in this thread. Again, if this is what we want, it requires radical honesty. I know. There are times when I blow my liberal credentials.

The current trend in America is privatization. That includes, for profit prisons. Humanity and justice are swept aside for profit. On another note, repeat offenders are common in these matters. If the only way to keep them off the roads is prison, then so be it. The goal is not revenge. The goal is to keep the roads and streets clear of drunk drivers. If they will not be cured, they can be caged. Again, my emphasis on honesty. What do we want from the legal system?

It might be better than being part of the general prison population. Sometimes, we want the best possible bad choice.

Which is why I keep talking about honesty. And what we want. Being drunk, or otherwise intoxicated, is not of itself, a crime. Driving while impaired is.a crime. We do need to make a distinction, between behavior which is obnoxious -- and behavior which is dangerous to society. Rehabilitation and Education are better than prison. When they fail, there is prison. A drunk driver who kills someone -- or many -- should not pass Go. There is a time to go directly to jail. A drunk driver -- who is caught driving while impaired -- without a licence -- and plows into other vehicles -- and attempts to flee the scene -- is a dangerous criminal. There is a time for prison and this is the time. Now is when we set the example. Notice please. I have said nothing about good and evil.

Let us speak plainly. If the only goal of prison is to keep people in confinement, until they die, the technology is available. The technology already exists to combine virtual reality -- any fantasy existence a person could want -- with true life support. This means that if the person leaves his tech hookup, for any reason at all -- like an attempted escape -- death will be close to instant. As a society we can do this. Of course, it means being honest with our selves. For the truly dangerous, for whom this is not an option -- We have a low tech solution. We put them in a ten foot pit and keep them there. They can be supplied with any food or drug they want -- and they remain until they die. They will never again have a conflict of any type with anybody. If that's what we want. If we can be honest.