Jonathan H. B. Lobl

Thank you. When I have a lucid dream, I must do some finger counting.

I've had plenty of dreams where I was in a library or school of some type. My brain can fake read a sign. It can't read a book in a dream. That's how I test to know if it is a dream. Maybe I have a more suspicious mind than you do. Sometimes, I feel compelled to put reality to a test. I am Agnostic.

I didn't expect to need to ask. If the Earth is flat, where is the edge?

It sounds like a call for objectivity. Interesting, but generally elusive.

Sometimes, lines are useful for seeing the obvious, or the obscure. As they say -- "Connect the dots." . There are also the lines on train platforms. The ones we shouldn't cross.

This method will tell you if you are having a lucid dream. It will not tell you if you are in a computer simulation.

Both pills are equally illusory. It doesn't matter which pill you take.

"The Matrix" was one specific movie trilogy. Aside from that -- we could be living in a computer simulation. How would we know? We wouldn't. There is a way to tell if we are dreaming. The dreaming brain is dyslexic. Pick up a book and start reading. If you can read the page in front of you -- you're awake.

Unless we are engaged in true "Gnosis" -- where we know something with absolute supernatural certitude -- we must have some confidence in our experts. Yes, experts have been mistaken. Sometimes, the experts have such strong evidence that the probability of their correctness is high. The Earth has been measured with great precision. I'm willing to go with the consensus. The shape of the Universe? Maybe. The evidence is weaker. But maybe.

Alas, the Flat Earth continues to have it's advocates. Some of them can be observed on You Tube. Our Education system has failed us. Some of these Flat Earth advocates, have come to their conclusion as a result of Scripture. It is a thing of great sadness.

It is possible to have too much intellectual purity. I know that I know that the Earth is round. Not a perfect sphere. Actually, egg shaped.

In binary, everything is either a 1 or a 0. There are no other numbers. In binary, the other numbers don't exist. A 10 is not a ten. It is a one and a zero, but it is not a ten. That makes asking -- if something equals a 10 -- a trick question. You have been deceived. Anything built on that deception will be false.

This is for a philosophy course. Not a computer graded exam. Philosophy questions have a way of looking simple -- even simplistic -- and then jumping on basic opening premises. We are starting with the premise that the answer is true or false. To me, it smells like a trap.

I thought you were pushing for an impossible standard, of intellectual open mindedness. This has been irritating without being helpful. At least now -- finally -- I have some grasp on what you are getting at. What's wrong with my thinking skills? Please. Be specific. While we are at it -- what's wrong with my understanding of Agnosticism -- big A -- ?

Not in binary.

Not to a blind person.

Which brings us to such matters as the credibility and objectivity of this person, warning me about my car's brakes. I never ask a barber if he thinks I need a haircut. I never ask a car salesman, if I should buy a car. I'm not stupid enough to expect objectivity.

Metaphor and parable aside, there is judgement here. My judgement. When I'm threatened with Hell Fire -- I make my threat assessment. Then I move on. There are some things that I am not obliged to take seriously. Neither am I obliged to engage a mental incompetent in debate. In the past, you have made it clear to me that you are agnostic, with a small "a". Why are you urging me to take this crap seriously? Clearly, you don't. Why should I?

That's funny.

Let us take your example at face value. If my mechanic tells me that my car's brakes are faulty, I will take his word for it. He is my technical advisor. I will go with his judgement. If the local Imam tells me that I'm going to burn in Hell, unless I become a Muslim -- piss on his opinion. If the local Bible humper wants to tell me that I'm going to burn in Hell, unless I accept the Christ as my Lord and savior -- piss on his opinion. Some things are valid warnings. Others are terrorist threats. I am responsible to know which is which.

I want a sharp focus on the issue. meredog -- he does insist on the small M -- is insisting that "nobody knows" is a form of blindness. That is the issue that I want a narrow focus on. I am disagreeing with meredog on this one narrow point. It is my opinion that "Knowing" is objective. If someone wishes to assert "Knowing" about God -- "Knowledge" of God -- this is different from belief and needs something objective to back it up. Belief about God does not need proof. Knowledge about God does need proof. IMO Your point is taken.

Often times, the pious like to define Atheists. In the view of the true believer -- an Atheist is someone who asserts that God does not exist. The claim is further made that since Atheists are asserting that God does not exist -- the Atheist must back up this assertion by proving that God does not exist. No. The only thing an Atheist is asserting, is that he does not believe.

You missed the word humor. "Perspective" in a painting, is how some things are made to seem farther away or closer.

The bane of religious/spiritual discourse, is the level of fraud, bull crap, deception and humbug. If someone wishes to assert that they know about God -- let them provide the evidence. An assertion made without evidence, can be ignored without evidence. Nothing brings out the stupid and cray in people, quite like religion. Anybody can claim anything in these matters. That does not mean that it has to be taken seriously.

It depends on things like plans and goals. In a situation like college, you have to know where you are going and how you are going to get there. Lines can be good. They keep a train on it's tracks. Pick your metaphor. An artist without lines loses perspective.