Jonathan H. B. Lobl

That's it then. So many come to this board to preach some message or other, then wander off. Some come here looking for a following. Some just do drive by preaching. Good riddance to them.

Do you have anything to offer beside bald assertions; unsupported by anything?

It's a sad thing to be a moderate. We end up being hated by all the extremists. This much I have figured out. If we are not all free to be our selves, then we are all in danger. The pendulum swings. The wheel turns. Power shifts.

I am a poor, miserable choice to be an advocate for the religious. Still, as the saying goes -- there comes a time when we must set aside our values and do what's right. The manuals of mental disorder do not list religion or religious belief. No. Religious belief is not a form of mental illness. I shouldn't have to say this. History is filled with highly intelligent, brilliant minds that were -- are -- deeply religious. I've met a few of them. Being religious is not the same as being weak minded. For that matter, I used to be religious. I think my understanding of such things has improved. In truth, I'm not actually smarter than I was then. We have such a small planet. We have to find ways to share it and live with each other. That includes living with disagreement.

Job 3:4 Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it. In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations Job 3:9 Let the stars of the twilight thereof be dark; let it look for light, but have none; neither let it see the dawning of the day: In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

I enjoy Bible symbolism in the same way that I enjoy poetry. I do not confuse Bible symbolism for reality. I do not use Bible symbolism to explain reality. That is because Bible symbolism is not reality. I take a statement like -- God is Light -- or -- God is Love -- to be symbolic statements. These symbolic statements have nothing to do with reality. Your confusion stems from the fact that you disdain distinctions. You have been clear on that, these many years. Yes, I have quoted passages about Light as a symbol for God. That is the point of this thread. Symbolic representation of God. Not the actual existence of God. Small wonder that you were confused.

Do you really want to argue with Dan's beliefs? You know he's only going to throw more Bible Scripture at you.

I read it years ago. Great stuff.

We must first define God. This is one reason that I've lost my taste for religious arguments. What does it really count for, when I define the God that I don't believe in? Trying to prove or disprove an undefined God is futile. Still the arguments wage on. So much heat. So little light. No pun intended.

If you really want to do this. Alright. Small bites and strictly my own Agnostic opinion. Is God real? I want to be clear on the meaning of real. Something is real when it has independent, objective, existence. Is God real? We have no objective, verifiable facts about God. Nothing at all. God could be real. We have no good reason to suppose that this is so. In my opinion, God is a fantasy. Or a personification. I don't want to make those distinctions now. Later, if you like. Is God Light? No. This is confusing a symbolic representation with reality. Light is real. Light is a symbolic representation of God, which is not real. As symbolism for God goes; Light is a lot more sophisticated than an old man in the sky. Thanks to physics, we actually know a lot about Light. Is Light a particle or a wave? The correct answer is "Yes."

You want Genesis to make sense? Let's have a look. Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations The Earth is a six day construction project. The stars -- the rest of the Universe -- were an after thought. "He made the stars also." Galaxies beyond counting. Billions of light years away. Billions of stars in the galaxies. "He made the stars also." For that matter, the Moon is not a light. It reflects the Sun's light. Then again, light does not need to be separated from darkness. That's not how it works. All of this is beside the point. When I started this thread, I was thinking about the symbolism of God as Light. That was the focus of my intent. It still is. I find Light symbolism interesting. Poetry. Not science.

2 Samuel 22:29 For thou art my lamp, O Lord: and the Lord will lighten my darkness. In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations 2 Samuel 23:4 And he shall be as the light of the morning, when the sun riseth, even a morning without clouds; as the tender grass springing out of the earth by clear shining after rain.In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

The Lighter Side of Covid Doomsday Because we need a laugh

Images of Light and Dark in Scripture I think this can be a fun thread, without reference to personal belief. Two from the King James version. (BibleGateway.Com) Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations Jeremiah 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

In my younger days, I thought that there was something romantic about working for a lost cause. I don't know if I have become wiser, or just more tired. I don't do that any more. I have lowered my expectations. I am not going to end suffering in the world. I still donate blood. In the end, it's the small things that matter. I make the world a better place when I take a shower. At least it's a better place for the people around me. It's easy to love humanity. Dealing with people is more difficult.

Most of the time, when I see mention of critical thinking skills, the context is religion. As you say, official narrative. I think the same applies to government propaganda, political party propaganda -- and various personality cults. The rabbit hole is deep. Commercial advertising for laundry detergent, breakfast cereal, fast food...... The sheep do love their shepherds.

Did you see my last exchange with the stupid troll? His only reason for being here is to get us angry and upset.

He's just a stupid troll, looking to stir up conflict on the board and get us all upset.

You want credit for trolling the board? For making yourself an affliction to others? For pretending to be a stupid bigot? Even now, you are trying to start more stupidity. Nothing about you is worth the trouble. Just piss off.

It's your usual inane ramblings. I don't give a crap what you believe. Your beliefs are not my problem. If you expect an adult to listen to you; you're going to have to do a lot better than that. Bald assertions are not worth arguing about. The strongest claims require the strongest evidence. You have nothing. Belief is not a path to truth. It is so easy to believe things that are not true. Scripture is not evidence. Your Scripture is not more trustworthy than the Koran, for instance. Your belief is not more valid than the beliefs of any other religion.