Hidden Buddhist in all of us?

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

5 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

 

Then let’s wonder off-topic… do you have any (grand-)children, Jonathan?

 

 

 

No.  Also no children.  This works out well because I never took a wife.  I never found anyone I wanted to be married to.

 

It's one of the few serious mistakes I managed to avoid.  So many of my peers are on their second divorce.   😆🤣

[RevBogovac]

On 12/3/2022 at 2:22 AM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

No.  Also no children.  This works out well because I never took a wife.  I never found anyone I wanted to be married to.

 

It's one of the few serious mistakes I managed to avoid.  So many of my peers are on their second divorce.   😆🤣

 

Yes, that does tend to make life… interesting… and meaningful…

 

But also more challenging (to follow the path of the Buddha). Let me illustrate; I have been in (several) severe motor accidents (having been hospitalized, operated and rehabilitated) and in war (two times; been shot at/shelled/bombed over, threatened to be butchered [with a “Rambo”-knife), had a gun cocked and put on my forehead), but I have never, EVER been (even close to) as worried as since my first child was born into my hands (literally).

 

As a (team-) lead I thought I understood my reports who had children. I did not. It’s a cliché, but you really have to live through it to understand. 

 

How does one “releas[-e] the transitory and understand[…] that everything passes” if it concerns their children?

 

 

(PS Wife I can understand, but children…)

 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

I agree.  Putting great ideas into practice is the hard part.

 

Perhaps you remember the Asehops fable about the cat and mice.  The mice agreed that someone had to put a bell around the cat's neck.  One old mouse said - "Yes.  But who will bell the cat?

 

Theory and practice.  😆

 

Jonathan 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

Next.  The story of the elephant and the butterfly.   😆

[VonNoble]

On 1/29/2022 at 11:37 AM, forester said:

A few years back Rolling Stone interviewed the Dali Lama ( or whoever the face of Buddhism was at the time).

In the interview he said that many monks are choosing to be reborn in the west, mainly to escape the totalitarian censorship taking place in the Tibet region toward anything contrary to stated government censure for the past several decades.

As a result Buddhism has been more decidedly introduced into western thought , the westerners formally being easterners, as it were.

Just an interesting thing related to this thread.  I’m sure the interview could be found online if anyones interested.  Don’t take my word for it.  

 

This made me hear the song IMAGINE (John Lennon) play softly while reading it........very interesting. 

[VonNoble]

On 2/8/2022 at 9:42 AM, Geordon said:

I don't read Rolling Stone (or any magazine, to be honest), but that sounds like something that I would expect to hear from him.  That's not a bad thing.

 

However (and this is something that I have discussed with my Rinzai Zen teacher, Meido Moore roshi at Korinji https://www.korinji.org/teachers) some of the bigger name teachers of Buddhism in the United States (especially the likes of Jon Kabat-ZInn and Alan Watts) are putting forth ideas and processes that are not strictly nor traditionally Buddhism, especially Zen Buddhism.

 

That's not to say that their teachings are necessarily bad, but they are not Buddhist. Yes, Buddhism is something that has evolved and adapted as it has moved across new cultures, but there are certain things that are fundamental to Buddhism that have to be understood before you can build on it.

 

I believe your point in well made.   I too can see that some Buddhist teachers in the United States have an unintentional (or perhaps deliberate) have a need/proclivity, to spin teaching's through a decidedly western point of view.    Good that you mentioned that.   

 

There might be either a supposition that Western vocabulary/values are clarified and familiar and inviting.  It could also be argued that diluting teachings is akin to hitting the 'easy button' ...interesting thoughts to the process of understanding.  

 

von

[VonNoble]

On 11/15/2022 at 8:20 AM, RevBogovac said:

 

 

Nice summary. Sounds indeed helpful from that perspective. 

 

But the ego wants… 

 

 

Perhaps, therein is the fulcrum.   The mind constructs wants...and the path forward  - is to explore the choice of the construct. 

 

At one point the pressure of my job was alarming.   I got paid a great deal of money. I had zero financial worries. However,

it was obvious the long hours, constant demands and fatigue were taking a physical toll.   In my mind, each day I would

(mistakenly) tell myself that this would all improve as soon as I nailed down the current five alarm fire, hired more talented

people, got rid of the malcontents or whatever it was my mind was telling me would be the magic elixir to fix life.

 

My life would be easier or better if the system would change, the government would improve regulations and legislation

and my spouse would stop being so darn pesky. 

 

Wrong.   My needs were very simple.   My wants and obligations (perceived) were quite large.   

My hopes for family members enormous.   My desire to help them, the planet, society were MY construct. 

Changing the construct of the walls, shifted an opening to filter my thoughts and actions.

 

Eventually, the wants were far less because my need to control outcomes, to help, to give was reigned in....

 

The ego might have been building an unsteady bit of walling off.....

 

von

[VonNoble]

On 12/8/2022 at 8:07 AM, RevBogovac said:

 

Yes, that does tend to make life… interesting… and meaningful…

 

But also more challenging (to follow the path of the Buddha). Let me illustrate; I have been in (several) severe motor accidents (having been hospitalized, operated and rehabilitated) and in war (two times; been shot at/shelled/bombed over, threatened to be butchered [with a “Rambo”-knife), had a gun cocked and put on my forehead), but I have never, EVER been (even close to) as worried as since my first child was born into my hands (literally).

 

As a (team-) lead I thought I understood my reports who had children. I did not. It’s a cliché, but you really have to live through it to understand. 

 

How does one “releas[-e] the transitory and understand[…] that everything passes” if it concerns their children?

 

 

(PS Wife I can understand, but children…)

 

 

 

I appreciate this posting.   That would be, on surface, a most difficult reality.   

I have never had biologic children.  So I am not qualified to address this at some level. 

 

I have raised foster children. I have taken in siblings children when life was spinning out of control

for the kid, the sibling or both.

 

The children in my care (both blood relatives and non-blood relatives) were taken away from horrid

home situations.   Often abused kids. Kids born to addicted parents.   Scarred children.    I was not

able to have kids of my own.  I concluded quickly a few that were able to birth them were not as able

to actually raise them, quite often for very understandable reasons.   So, I am not convinced that it is

completely a given that natural parents understand the responsibility of parenting and non parents are

completely void of understanding. 

 

Since I was financially able to provide resources beyond the scope of normal foster parent allocations

to the children, my ego would like to believe I made a difference.  Part of that ego driven action 

including the lunacy that I could protect them at all times, or that they had the desire to be all I could

see they could be, or that they had the same values or vision of the future or even remotely the 

same norms of what life should be...

 

I think lots of parents act towards great futures, or believe they have a super safe and bright future 

available to every child - however not every child agrees with the desires the parents are yoking upon

them from birth.

 

They don't' like some foods, they shun parental notions of order, they are not born with the same

hopes or humors or wants.   So the best plans of the parents including truckloads of pressures to

control the outside world... are (often) parental planning, in reality, beyond parent's control.

 

Yes, there are fears and dangers.   There are also kids who aren't going to appreciate your providing

things that are of no concern to them.   You want to protect them.   (one construct)    They don't agree

with your version of protection.    A different construct.  

 

At age two - you physically can control much.   At what age is that not the case.  

At what age to you prepare them (and yourself) to shift some of that responsibility.

 

How long is that transition period.   How much of your conclusions and skills are

 helpful,  and when are you simply failing at letting them take risks and fail - which

too is part of growing.

 

I am NOT implying any lines in the sand or any parent I have ever met fails.

I am very much implying that we sometimes WANT to do more in life than is possible

 

We construct demands beyond what is a reality then struggle to realize we are not wired, able, or

willing to admit we need help, we are not so great as we want to be, or as able to step back when

we should.  

 

Certainly I know that has been true for me.   That dang ego is ridiculous.

 

Mine is at least.

 

von