The Bible is a Parable in itself


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7 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

You god is. It is the "old" hostage taker dilemma... but even more discerning; if you god was really omnipotent, all-knowing and loving as you say then he simply should have found a solution which doesn't include the killing of en entire nation of innocent kids. 

 

For 400 years, generation after generation, there was no solution.. God being omniscient probably knew that there would never be a solution, so he brought the madness to a screeching halt. There's no solution but one for those who continually rebel against God. Wrath is the end of God's patience. The Canaanites likely sacrificed more children as burnt offerings to Baal over 400 years than God had eradicated, so who was the real villain to the kids?  

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Your freedom of religion shouldn't allow you to impact my freedom.  If your God exists and he gave us all free will then who are you to deny me what your God gave?

You god is. It is the "old" hostage taker dilemma... but even more discerning; if you god was really omnipotent, all-knowing and loving as you say then he simply should have found a solution which doe

God being all powerful and knowing means he set the circumstances up in the first place for there to be no solution.

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3 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

For 400 years, generation after generation, there was no solution.. God being omniscient probably knew that there would never be a solution, so he brought the madness to a screeching halt. There's no solution but one for those who continually rebel against God. Wrath is the end of God's patience. The Canaanites likely sacrificed more children as burnt offerings to Baal over 400 years than God had eradicated, so who was the real villain to the kids?  

God being all powerful and knowing means he set the circumstances up in the first place for there to be no solution.

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12 hours ago, Dan56 said:

The Canaanites likely sacrificed more children as burnt offerings to Baal over 400 years than God had eradicated, so who was the real villain to the kids?  

 

What is this? A pissing match? If your god really was all-mighty and all-knowing acting out of love he would have found a better solution than infanticide... 

 

It's like saying the Germans put millions of Jews to death  so now we'll eradicate all the Germans. Sure, it's a point of view... but don't come telling me that it's the point of view of an omnipotent being that is acting out of love...  

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On 11/2/2020 at 7:10 PM, cuchulain said:

God being all powerful and knowing means he set the circumstances up in the first place for there to be no solution.

 

Sacrificing children wasn't a circumstance God set up. The solution was in the hands of those doing such detestable things. Its called "free will".

 

18 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

What is this? A pissing match? If your god really was all-mighty and all-knowing acting out of love he would have found a better solution than infanticide... 

 

It's like saying the Germans put millions of Jews to death  so now we'll eradicate all the Germans. Sure, it's a point of view... but don't come telling me that it's the point of view of an omnipotent being that is acting out of love...  

 

A God of love, yes.. But He is also a God of wrath.. And many Germans who had nothing to do with exterminating Jews were killed. God did offer a solution to the Canaanites, but they rejected it. The biblical God does not impose His Will onto us, but He does and will react to our choices. We are here to be tested and have the freedom to commit grievous sins, but judgement falls on everyone. 

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10 hours ago, cuchulain said:

We act based on genetics and environment both of which God controls absolutely.  You know the all powerful bit?  Then our free will must by definition be illusion.  Meaning God set it up entirely

 

Nonsense.. We aren't controlled by our genetics or the environment. Christianity teaches us to overcome the world and flesh by bringing them under complete subjection to your spirit. Your essentially saying that we are all screw-ups and its God's fault. That would only be true if we didn't have brains and free will, that's what separates us from plants & animals. The choices we make are not illusions, they are very real and have consequences. 

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2 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

Nonsense.. We aren't controlled by our genetics or the environment. Christianity teaches us to overcome the world and flesh by bringing them under complete subjection to your spirit. Your essentially saying that we are all screw-ups and its God's fault. That would only be true if we didn't have brains and free will, that's what separates us from plants & animals. The choices we make are not illusions, they are very real and have consequences. 

How do you learn Christian beliefs?  Oh yeah...your environmental upbringing.  

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4 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

From a collection of God inspired books called the bible.  

The environmental learning, yes.  So you clearly agree that we are a product of our environment and genetics.  And that God created and set the rules for both.  And that he is by default responsible for his programming.

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9 hours ago, cuchulain said:

The environmental learning, yes.  So you clearly agree that we are a product of our environment and genetics.  And that God created and set the rules for both.  And that he is by default responsible for his programming.

 

True if not for free-will, but since we are not robots and capable of independent thinking, its not logical to blame God for our woe's.

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14 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

True if not for free-will, but since we are not robots and capable of independent thinking, its not logical to blame God for our woe's.

If God is responsible for our environment and genetics and those are what determines how we choose then yes he is.  Now you have said that the environmental option was nonsense and you have agreed with it.  Obviously he would be responsible for the genetic option since he designed it.  He stacked the deck from the all knowing perspective you credit him with.  Yep you agree he's responsible...your just afraid to admit it

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17 hours ago, cuchulain said:

If God is responsible for our environment and genetics and those are what determines how we choose then yes he is.  Now you have said that the environmental option was nonsense and you have agreed with it.  Obviously he would be responsible for the genetic option since he designed it.  He stacked the deck from the all knowing perspective you credit him with.  Yep you agree he's responsible...your just afraid to admit it

 

Our environment and genetics might influence us, but they don't determine or control our choices. We aren't genetically predisposed to sin, nor does our environment determine our choices. Christ being the perfect example, did not make choices based on his genetic composition, nor did he yield to the physical environment. Our spirit (mind) can rise above what and where we are. God is responsible for the what and where, but we independently determined who we are and what we'll do. Saying that our fate is predetermine by God excuses us of any responsibility, but our decisions are our own,  they don't emanate from our genetic makeup nor our we environmentally controlled.

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17 hours ago, cuchulain said:

If we're not predisposed to sin we're not beholden to the original sin and not born in need of salvation and your religion becomes a racket

 

We are condemned to a sinful world because everyone has freely chosen to sin, condemnation is not the result of anything Adam & Eve did, that event just set the stage. If they did not commit the original (first) sin, the next guy would have. Sin is nothing more than disobedience to God, and rebelling against our Creator does require salvation.

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6 hours ago, cuchulain said:

Nonsense

 

If you see no sin in the world, your blind.. If you don't think you have the ability to freely make decisions, your in denial.. If you think your condemned because of something Eve did 6000 years ago, your wrong.. If you don't believe salvation is a necessity, your lost.. And if you think religion is a racket, your 90% correct.. Nonsense is the insistence of accepting a lie because of an inability to discern the truth. 

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22 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

If you see no sin in the world, your blind.. If you don't think you have the ability to freely make decisions, your in denial.. If you think your condemned because of something Eve did 6000 years ago, your wrong.. If you don't believe salvation is a necessity, your lost.. And if you think religion is a racket, your 90% correct.. Nonsense is the insistence of accepting a lie because of an inability to discern the truth. 

Truth in my view requires fact.  Lack of evidence would suggest you have your statement correct but applicable to yourself instead.  Can you accurately define delusional?

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On 11/4/2020 at 2:39 PM, cuchulain said:

We act based on genetics and environment both of which God controls absolutely.  You know the all powerful bit?  Then our free will must by definition be illusion.  Meaning God set it up entirely

You can really talk about this for a very long time. If you take for example characters from a computer game, perhaps these characters are also confident that they are consciously making this or that choice. But everything is predetermined already in advance

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