Religious Persecution

[scottedward]

I'd like to take a moment to acknowledge those who have been unjustly ostracized from The Church of Scientology, 'disconnected' from any indoctrinated family, and yet still choose to risk legal consequences from their former church by practicing the religion.

Hm, religious persecution... interesting...

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

This is news to me.  I didn't know that Scientologists did that.

[scottedward]

1 hour ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

This is news to me.  I didn't know that Scientologists did that.

I watch a lot of CNN.  lol 
They have a show called 'Believer', and last week's episode was about Scientology.  Because the official church didn't even return the host's calls, he interviewed people that have been booted but still chose to practice their religion.  The church has been less than tolerant. but the point is these recent events mirror much of what other religions have had to deal with throughout history.

Edited March 28, 2017 by scottedward

[mererdog]

1 hour ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

This is news to me.  I didn't know that Scientologists did that.

I suggest Googling the term "suppressive person" if you want to know more... 

Personally, I take everything I hear about Scientology with a grain of salt or fifty. Their church has both a lot of secrecy and a lot of enemies. That leaves a lot of room for slander against it, but also a lot of room in the closet for skeletons.

[scottedward]

56 minutes ago, mererdog said:

I suggest Googling the term "suppressive person" if you want to know more... 

Personally, I take everything I hear about Scientology with a grain of salt or fifty. Their church has both a lot of secrecy and a lot of enemies. That leaves a lot of room for slander against it, but also a lot of room in the closet for skeletons.

You just described most of our religions.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, mererdog said:

I suggest Googling the term "suppressive person" if you want to know more... 

Personally, I take everything I hear about Scientology with a grain of salt or fifty. Their church has both a lot of secrecy and a lot of enemies. That leaves a lot of room for slander against it, but also a lot of room in the closet for skeletons.

Over the years, I have looked briefly into Scientology.  I mean briefly.  They have always creeped me out.  I have always wanted to go home and take a shower.

[scottedward]

24 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Over the years, I have looked briefly into Scientology.  I mean briefly.  They have always creeped me out.  I have always wanted to go home and take a shower.

That's understandable.
While I feel the same way, i don't think it's about the religion.  I've never practiced, so I won't pretend I understand it.  I think the primary source of disdain that we feel should be more for the church and the way it's treated its followers.

Edited March 29, 2017 by scottedward

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

8 minutes ago, scottedward said:

That's understandable.
While I feel the same way, i don't think it's about the religion.  I've never practiced, so I won't pretend I understand it.  I think the primary source of disdain that we feel is more for the church and the way it's treated its followers.

Not disdain.  At least, not my disdain.  My fear.  They discomfort me as few things have.

The first time I encountered them, I was in High School.  They suggested I take an introductory class.  I declined.  I was sent to a supervisor for persuading.  Then on to his supervisor.  And on for a few more layers.  There was something wrong with their eyes.  Something behind their eyes.  Every step up the ladder, that something wrong with their eyes was worse.  It was very creepy.  I have not been back.  All those years, the memory lingers.

We speak lightly about eyes being the windows of the soul.  When I encounter true madness, it's not funny.  Just scary.  

[scottedward]

1 hour ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Not disdain.  At least, not my disdain.  My fear.  They discomfort me as few things have.

The first time I encountered them, I was in High School.  They suggested I take an introductory class.  I declined.  I was sent to a supervisor for persuading.  Then on to his supervisor.  And on for a few more layers.  There was something wrong with their eyes.  Something behind their eyes.  Every step up the ladder, that something wrong with their eyes was worse.  It was very creepy.  I have not been back.  All those years, the memory lingers.

We speak lightly about eyes being the windows of the soul.  When I encounter true madness, it's not funny.  Just scary.  

Hm
You weren't a legal adult in high school, so how did the school push you into seeing a Scientology supervisor, or attend their introductory class without peeving off your parents? I apologize, but you're not making any sense. I don't think you could have gone so deeply into the church or their organization without being taken in at least partly? 

Regardless, it wasn't the Church of Scientology I was wishing to acknowledge. It was its followers that have since been discarded.

Edited March 29, 2017 by scottedward

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, scottedward said:

Hm
You weren't a legal adult in high school, so how did the school push you into seeing a Scientology supervisor, or attend their introductory class without peeving off your parents? I apologize, but you're not making any sense. I don't think you could have gone so deeply into the church or their organization without being taken in at least partly? 

Regardless, it wasn't the Church of Scientology I was wishing to acknowledge. It was its followers that have since been discarded.

It had nothing to do with my High School.  I mention this only to place the incident in time.  They had street corner people handing out "invitations" to an auditing.  I accepted to see what they were about.  I came, I saw, I walked out shaking.  

No involvement.

In my misbegotten youth, I also attended the public lectures of the Unification Church.  Also not what you would call involvement.  I sized them up and decided that they were crazy.

I also investigated the Jews for Jesus.  There are amazing things in New York City.

And the Process Church of the Final Judgement.

And the Hare Krishna people - ISCKCON - International Society for Krishna Consciousness.

I came by my Atheism honestly.  Yes.  I know.  Not the point.

[scottedward]

8 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

It had nothing to do with my High School.  I mention this only to place the incident in time.  They had street corner people handing out "invitations" to an auditing.  I accepted to see what they were about.  I came, I saw, I walked out shaking.  

No involvement.

In my misbegotten youth, I also attended the public lectures of the Unification Church.  Also not what you would call involvement.  I sized them up and decided that they were crazy.

I also investigated the Jews for Jesus.  There are amazing things in New York City.

And the Process Church of the Final Judgement.

And the Hare Krishna people - ISCKCON - International Society for Krishna Consciousness.

I came by my Atheism honestly.  Yes.  I know.  Not the point.

Nope, but I appreciate the necessary clarification. 
The depth with which you've looked into various religions should be admired.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

8 hours ago, scottedward said:

Nope, but I appreciate the necessary clarification. 
The depth with which you've looked into various religions should be admired.

There were others.

 

[scottedward]

1 hour ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

There were others.

 

For the both of us.  Any examples?

[mark 45]

21 hours ago, scottedward said:

Hm
You weren't a legal adult in high school, so how did the school push you into seeing a Scientology supervisor, or attend their introductory class without peeving off your parents? I apologize, but you're not making any sense. I don't think you could have gone so deeply into the church or their organization without being taken in at least partly? 

Regardless, it wasn't the Church of Scientology I was wishing to acknowledge. It was its followers that have since been discarded.

if you watched leah remmicks show about the church of scientology you would understand that the age of consent was set by them for whatever reason they had at the time.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 hours ago, scottedward said:

For the both of us.  Any examples?

I explored the Devin Light Mission when Sat Guru Maharaji was 16.  I applied for initiation.  The Mahatma conducting the ceremony wanted to know if I was willing to cut my head off for the guru.  I told him "no."  He told me to go home and come back when I was ready.

In my second year at City College, a pretty young woman walked up to me and asked if I would like to go to a Buddhist meeting.  I looked her up and down and decided I was interested in Buddhism.  It turned out to be Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism.  A silly cult.  I made Junior Group Chief before I dropped out.

I explored the Buddhist roots of Reiki.  I was initiated to Medicine Buddha, White Tara, Quan Yin and Sekhmet.

I was a member of Eckenkar for a while.  I came to my senses.

I was in Mahihari for three years.  The group lead by the Founder's daughter.  There was another group lead by the chief disciple.

I was trained in PanGu ShenGong.  The Qi Gong is good.  Then I read the book.  Wow and Yikes.

I took a lesson in Falun Gong.  Then I read the book.  Wow.

My first Reiki school was the American International Reiki Association.  Very cultish.  They alone had the complete seven degree system.  I believed them for a while.

 

There were other things in my foolish youth.  This is what comes to mind.

In the Western World, there is the persistent belief that somehow, Eastern Religion is more pure.  Or more spiritual.  No.  It's not.  It's different but it's not better.

 

Edited March 30, 2017 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

4 hours ago, scottedward said:

For the both of us.  Any examples?

Maybe I should mention that for several years, my closest friends were all Hasidic.  I spent a Summer vacation in their yeshiva in Morris Town, New Jersey.  A long story.

[scottedward]

On 3/29/2017 at 10:27 PM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Maybe I should mention that for several years, my closest friends were all Hasidic.  I spent a Summer vacation in their yeshiva in Morris Town, New Jersey.  A long story.

I apologize for taking so long with a response, but did you find that a positive experience, or no.

[mererdog]

On 3/28/2017 at 5:17 PM, scottedward said:

You just described most of our religions.

Hey, sorry, but I missed your response before.  

I do not disagree with your point here, but my feeling is that there is a difference of scope, even if not of type. I would say that Scientology and Mormonism are in a league all their own on this one. The number of conspiracy theories surrounding just those two groups is kind of insane. The only other organization that really compares is Freemasonry.

[scottedward]

5 hours ago, mererdog said:

Hey, sorry, but I missed your response before.  

I do not disagree with your point here, but my feeling is that there is a difference of scope, even if not of type. I would say that Scientology and Mormonism are in a league all their own on this one. The number of conspiracy theories surrounding just those two groups is kind of insane. The only other organization that really compares is Freemasonry.

I'm not entirely sure if the differences of scope or type should matter, if any of us are able to question motives. 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

7 hours ago, scottedward said:

I apologize for taking so long with a response, but did you find that a positive experience, or no.

It forced me to be honest with myself.  I really had to search my heart at that point, and ask if I actually believed any of it.  The answer came back, loud and clear.  No.  I did not believe any of it.  Not one word.  I was living a lie.  Without integrity. I had to stop.  I had to be authentic.

One side note.  It's amazing how many people have asked me if I gave religion a fair chance.     

Edited March 31, 2017 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl