Persecuted

[ActingUpAgain]

Religious persecution - one of the many reasons the pilgrims left England for the New World all those years ago. And yet it continues to this day in every corner of the world, to people of virtually every faith.

Personally I've never experienced it, at least to a tangible degree. Most likely because I keep my beliefs private in the real world (and all the good and bad that comes with that). Still working on opening up that part of me.

I'm curious to hear of stories you might have dealt with in regards to you living/teaching your faith. What kind of persecution have you experienced? How have you overcome? Or have you been unable to and need advice from others?

[Rev.Fred]

I get harassed by my family about it. Out in public, people just inch away from me or give me dirty looks...nothing major. I kinda get a kick out of it when I see the looks on their faces when they read my bumper stickers or see my religious tattoos.... I really see no need to tell people about my faith unless they specifically ask otherwise I let it be. I think I've been messed with more when people mistake my faith then when I tell them. My husband and I have had a few times where we were out with our kids and people whispering that we must be mormon and when they do that we just start shouting "Outta the way, Roman Catholics coming through".

[RevRainbow]

You got tattoos?

[Rev.Fred]

You got tattoos?

Yes but you can't see them....

[Bro. Hex]

Yes but you can't see them....

Invisible tatoos?

Edited December 11, 2008 by Hexalpa

[Youch]

What kind of persecution have you experienced?

The entire American Judeo-Christian culture has been under assault by not-so-well disguised secular religious bigotry for about 40 years now. While the vast majority of American's still call themselves "Christian," more and more the parts of the culture that reflect those historical beliefs are having a war being waged against it, and are laregly disappearing from the politically correct mainstream. Happy Winter Solstice everyone.

Invisible tatoos?

[Rev.Fred]

Invisible tatoos?

Tried to make one into a "bad spot" joke and the others are actually because I have a few curse words on me...inappropriate for the forum...

Have you had any problems with your religion?

[Bro. Hex]

Have you had any problems with your religion?

Nope. It is thoroughly in remission. Under control.

Doc says I got many good years ahead!

[RevRainbow]

Getting back to the thread...No, I haven't personally experienced what I would term persecution because of my faith.

[Tsukino_Rei]

I guess that depends what you classify as persecution. Do you mean death threats, loss or change of livelihood, persnal rejection, people just generally being mean, being graded not on the quality of your work but on your beliefs, or forcible alteration of future prospects/dreamkilling due to your beleifs?

Nobodies threatened to kill me. But there are more ways to die than physically.

I'm still angry. Some shrinking part of me rages at all of Christendom. Rages that every pulpit on the planet is missing a little plaque warning *Not As Advertised*. It's getting better. Mostly I'm just happy to be free of it all - happy I didn't continue down that path and become one of the well meaning world hurters manipulating people for a christ idol of human making (<-- angry me speaking).

Suffice it to say that I am a faithful beleiver that the majority of Christian persecution is executed by Christians.

Damn - I can't talk about this. It focusses me on the anger which I am trying to stop having.

Edited December 11, 2008 by Tsukino_Rei

[Rev Ed]

Religious persecution - one of the many reasons the pilgrims left England for the New World all those years ago. And yet it continues to this day in every corner of the world, to people of virtually every faith.

Personally I've never experienced it, at least to a tangible degree. Most likely because I keep my beliefs private in the real world (and all the good and bad that comes with that). Still working on opening up that part of me.

I'm curious to hear of stories you might have dealt with in regards to you living/teaching your faith. What kind of persecution have you experienced? How have you overcome? Or have you been unable to and need advice from others?

Can't say that I have ever experienced it either.

[ActingUpAgain]

I guess that depends what you classify as persecution. Do you mean death threats, loss or change of livelihood, persnal rejection, people just generally being mean, being graded not on the quality of your work but on your beliefs, or forcible alteration of future prospects/dreamkilling due to your beleifs?

Any of those qualify - I'm interested in hearing about any experiences.

My wife (long before becoming my wife) had some difficulties. One man she was dating had devout Christian parents that were very kind and loving towards her. Then they stumbled across her personal website where they discovered some links she'd posted about being pagan. While they never admitted that they'd even seen it (mentioned in passing by the boyfriend), their attitude toward her changed quickly to unacceptance and hostility. It ultimately led to the end of that relationship, and her biggest regret was that they never gave her a chance to explain her beliefs.

Conversely, when I told my devout Catholic parents about her beliefs (and explained how similar they actually were in many ways), they grew to accept her. Sure, they'd love for her to convert to some form of Christianity, but they understand where she's coming from and appreciate that she doesn't try to pull me away from the church. My wife has cried tears of joy on more than one occaision over being accepted and loved "just as she is".

[Rev.Fred]

Any of those qualify - I'm interested in hearing about any experiences.

My wife (long before becoming my wife) had some difficulties. One man she was dating had devout Christian parents that were very kind and loving towards her. Then they stumbled across her personal website where they discovered some links she'd posted about being pagan. While they never admitted that they'd even seen it (mentioned in passing by the boyfriend), their attitude toward her changed quickly to unacceptance and hostility. It ultimately led to the end of that relationship, and her biggest regret was that they never gave her a chance to explain her beliefs.

Conversely, when I told my devout Catholic parents about her beliefs (and explained how similar they actually were in many ways), they grew to accept her. Sure, they'd love for her to convert to some form of Christianity, but they understand where she's coming from and appreciate that she doesn't try to pull me away from the church. My wife has cried tears of joy on more than one occaision over being accepted and loved "just as she is".

When I told my grandmother she asked why I would want to turn into a cat....ummmm...WTH? When my dad finally accepted that my being Pagan wasn't a phase I was told I worship satan. My family and some devout Christian friends feel the need to constantly send emails about God and Christ though they know my position on things. I can feel the frustration of your wife wholeheartedly....

[Lord Occultis]

Religious persecution - one of the many reasons the pilgrims left England for the New World all those years ago. And yet it continues to this day in every corner of the world, to people of virtually every faith.

Personally I've never experienced it, at least to a tangible degree. Most likely because I keep my beliefs private in the real world (and all the good and bad that comes with that). Still working on opening up that part of me.

I'm curious to hear of stories you might have dealt with in regards to you living/teaching your faith. What kind of persecution have you experienced? How have you overcome? Or have you been unable to and need advice from others?

Well, I haven;t been persecuted for my religious beliefs, simply because I lie very frequently about them. I feel no need to discuss them with the Jesus Dvision, since I know they don't care anything about me.

However, I have been persecuted for my lifestyle, which to me is a form of spirituality to me.

My parents sent me to a psychiatrist when I was a kid, because they kept finding my diaper stash. You have to remwember, that back in the 80's, when no one knew what Infantalism was, or for that matter what a Teen baby was (?!), any interest in that sort of thing was a sign you were seriously sick and who knows, even one of those disgusting pedophile perverts (BTW, the Infantaphobes still try to connect the two. I guess if there still too brain damage to understand gay men are interested in gay men, NOT children, then what can we expect?).

Worse yet, because of the deficient farce in High School and Middle School they call "Sex Education" (Should be renamed "Hetrosexuality 101" not Sex Ed), I had no information about it, neither did my parents. I most certainly refused to speak to the shrink about it they sent me, partly because I was afraid and partly because my parents filled my head with the idea that only freaks and deviants did such things.

I remember one specific incident that sort of crystalized the societal concept of it at the time. I was at Perry's Drugstore, and because my bicycle tire had popped and I was broke, I couldn't call my parents to pick me up or for that matter, ride my bike home. Anyway, I was spending sometime in the Incontinents section of Perry's, daydreaming about those lovely diapers, when my father came in. I didn't know he was behind me, but he was. He grabbed me, my bike and threw it in the trunk (the bike, not me (: ). He then began screaming at me in the care, asking me "what the ** is the matter with you". In typical tolerant fashion, when I attempted to talk to him, he backhnaded me in the face and caused my nose to gush blood.

I learned that day all I had to know about "normal" people. I learned they will use violence to make others like themselves, and willfight to the death to force everyone to be like them and conform. I also learned that I wasn;t acceptable as I was, unless I was the cookie cutter son my dad expected.

I eventually escaped their house, and began living my own life. I have been gratified by many people's open mindedness, allthough I am continually reminded they consider us freaks and deviants. I get so sick of HetroSupremacists and their accusations againstmy community that were pedophiles. What si so sickening is that these hypocrites are MANY TIMES the ACTUAL pedophiles! I am so tired of living in a HetroSupremacist society, where they expect us to kowtow to them and their prejudices.

My community, and by extension myself, are constantly under attack. Since the laws do not protect us from HetroSupremacists or Itheir Infantaphobia, they can fire us for it or deny us employment. They can do this even if we keep it to ourselves, in the closet in effect! At least one Deputy Sheriff of a local p.d was fired, not because he was unethical or criminal, but because he was an adult baby! He was so frightened of how the local bigots would react, he didn;t even sue the Infantaphobes who discriminated against him!

I am therefore dedicated to the destruction of their society. I would gladly hurl a bomb in a church that was filled with them, and in doing so remove some of my enemies from this planet. I hate them, I hate their religion, I hate their society and I wish them only death and pain. I would gladly strap a bomb on to myself and blow myself up, if in doing so I could kill the lot of them. I am glad everytime I hear one of them gets killed in an accident, and I would love it if someoneone would bomb that Church that runs the website "godhatesfags.com". I feel no more guilt about them being killed then I feel about stepping on a cockroach. I consider them my mortal enemies.

In fact i consider them lower on the evolutionary tree then cockroaches. I truly believe that they are thugs and bullies, and the only thing that will make them treat us with respect is if we are armed and willing to shoot them dead if they violate our rights. I believe in an armed response if they should persecute us, with bombs being planted to explode in their churches, e.t.c if they turn on us.

Edited December 11, 2008 by Lord Occultis

[Tsukino_Rei]

Any of those qualify - I'm interested in hearing about any experiences.

My wife (long before becoming my wife) had some difficulties. One man she was dating had devout Christian parents that were very kind and loving towards her. Then they stumbled across her personal website where they discovered some links she'd posted about being pagan. While they never admitted that they'd even seen it (mentioned in passing by the boyfriend), their attitude toward her changed quickly to unacceptance and hostility. It ultimately led to the end of that relationship, and her biggest regret was that they never gave her a chance to explain her beliefs.

Conversely, when I told my devout Catholic parents about her beliefs (and explained how similar they actually were in many ways), they grew to accept her. Sure, they'd love for her to convert to some form of Christianity, but they understand where she's coming from and appreciate that she doesn't try to pull me away from the church. My wife has cried tears of joy on more than one occaision over being accepted and loved "just as she is".

A Wesleyan College in New Brunswick (though it's a thinly disguised U.S School) called Bethany Bible College - though it claims to welcome all denominations - has/had a professor that would mark down the exegetical work of Baptist Students for no other reason than the conclusions they reached weren't Wesleyan. I felt bad for those students. They used to get publically called out and slapped down in classes too. So much for welcoming all denominations. Should have said they welcome the cheque books and student loans of all denominations but check your beliefs at the door please.

They were less likely to be chosen for opportunties such as leadership positions in the college choir too. That's as much a political decision as a religious one though - as those who were chosen for various opportunites tended to be related to board members and big money contributors, which wouldn't be so bad if they also had any talent at all or even some form of spiritual superiority.

Non-Christian or Non-Mainstream staff members had to stay very on the down low. Professors who weren't Wesleyan had to at least pretend to be or couldn't teach anything outside Wesleyan Doctrine even to show that there were other opinions. When students asked them questions - but what about where the Bible says this, or what about people who beleive this - they had to oh so carefully tiptoe around it and be careful not to express their own honest beliefs. These men and women were brilliant though - to those interested and passionate enough to search the breadth and depth of the subjects these people had mastered and seek to pick their brains for deeper guidance.

Oh, they had weekly staff led meeting groups (small) that everyone was required to attend with specific syllabi too. In these ridiculous sessions the men were given real meaty subjects to dive into.... while the women got tips on Christian Homemaking and good dinner table Etiquette. - Suggesting that this was not really in keeping with the purpose of the School, wasn't right, and wasn't What Jesus Would Do wasn't popular. Does that count as being persecuted for ones beleifs?

The idea that Christian's aren't actually 'called upon' to create and enforce laws on earth or to put a Christian in the White House wasn't a popular one either. Or the idea that even if Homosexuality is wrong and harmful to people it's not Christendom's place to dissalow it or purge it from society also wasn't popular.

It turns out that seeking God and Truth with all your Heart, your Soul, and your Mind isn't that popular when your Heart feels more passionately than most peoples, your soul searches more deeply than most people, and your Mind is more powerful than the majority of the planets population. Apparently there are supposed to be limits and God forgot to put those in the Bible - but that's ok because we have Progressive Revelation to sort that out for us. Our elected Church Leaders (who were ergo chosen by God) will tell us everything that God 'meant' to put in the Bible but forgot to and tell us the 'right' way to interpret things when the Bible seems unclear.

Bull*%&$

.... I really shouldn't have gotten started on this.

Edited December 11, 2008 by Tsukino_Rei

[RevRainbow]

.... I really shouldn't have gotten started on this.

Oh, what the heck, keep going! It helps give (me) perspective to your POV's on this stuff. You aint the only one pissed off with religious hypocrisy. Somebody named Jeshua also was, long before... exceptin' there were no Christians around at that time (Methinks He would've gotten on their case also!).

Edited December 11, 2008 by RevRainbow

[ActingUpAgain]

I agree - vent the spleen. It's a healthy choice!

[RevGen]

Invisible tatoos?

ROFLOL!!! My question exactly!

I'll see your Invisible Tattoos, and raise you Imaginary Tattoos.

I've been Places in the World where I had to be politically Very Sensitive for the sake of Others...that is, making sure the people I spoke with about their spiritual lives did not get into trouble. Although this was MANY MANY MANY years ago, I still take it seriously enough to Say-No-More about it now.

Since I'm not the type to see myself as particularly "persecuted", I have not much minded the askance-looking-peer, etc.. My Path goes toward Peace, and this is what I find.

[Tsukino_Rei]

Wow, really thanks alot guys. I guess it's stuff like that and so much more that made me turn around and look straight at what exactly it was that I was about to go out into the world and invite people into and I thoug, 'What sort of supposedly loving Christ-like individual would knowingly invite wounded unsuspecting God-seeking people into something like this?!'

Divisive, hateful, spiteful, gossiping, self-centered, idolatrous, closed minded, closed spirited....

I was told that Unitarians weren't Christians - only Trinitarians were. I was curious - so I went to a Unitarian Church and worshipped alongside them and questioned the pastor and you know what I found out?!

Trinitarian - One God - Three distinct Forms so full and complete to be distinct personalities/Beings - but One.

Unitiarian - One God - Three Manifestations so full and complete to be distinct personalities/Beings - but One.

... It's the same freaking thing.

And yet I was told in no uncertain terms to never go back there.

Ultimately, all the ideological differences eventually added up to a letter stating that I lacked the spiritual graces for ministry and that I would never develop the spiritual graces for ministry. Didn't that just bless my cotton socks? Well no, actually, it didn't. It - along with the great pile of other things not even yet brushed upon - broke me, killed me, and freed me.

Even with all the ideological difference, even with all my questions and my stuborn explorations, even with all of that before that point I was still towing the company line. I was still holding back - staying away from certain 'forbidden' fruit like books on Wicca by Wiccans and other 'Satanic' religions. Imagine how pissed I was when I found out that everything I'd been told to beleive about these people was a lie - but that was later. No - before that point Christondom very much owned me - I was a company girl ready and willing to dedicate my considerable intellect, developing literary and speaking skills, my music, my powers of persuasion and debate to the cause of converting the world. Hell knows how many sheep I would have led to that slaughter. How bought into the whole thing I was makes me ashamed- particularly concidering that it's me. I saw what wasn't right but didn't let it lead me to the proper, the only, conclusion because I was clinging to the idols of my established foundations.

Freed from the expectations of the 'family/body' I formerly beleived myself to belong to, and from some misplaced sense of beholden honour to obey and live up to the expectations of pastors, spiritual leaders, and sunday school teachers - I went learned about all the things I wasn't supposed to and WASN'T struck by lightning and if ANY demons haunt me they're straight from the 'Body of Christ', not the books I read. There were no nightmares, no sense of drifting farther from the God I was praying to give me wisdom and show me Truth at any cost - no loss of sense of peace, indeed there was an INCREASING sense of Peace.

It was so neat, and exciting, and empowering to read all these other mystics in all these other religions and see similar experiences and similar beliefs and at the same time so bloody irritating! Oh wait, was Satan trying to trick me with a false sense of peace? Collywobbles! Colly*%&^&*(WOBBLES! It's disproven by scripture... Seek and ye shall find, can't be snatched from His hand - yadayada. Crap like that is designed to make us a AFRAID of KNOWLEDGE! 'God has not given us the spirit of fear' the Dude gives peace, understanding, and a sound mind. -.- BTW - If they wanted mindless slaves to tow the company line they probably should have done some IQ tests for entry and only taken the low scores, oh and getting me to repeatedly, critically, and exegetically read the entire Bible a few times was probably a BIG MISTAKE! grrrrrrrrrrrr.

[RevGen]

grrrrrrrrrrrr.

This is a recurring theme in many discussions: namely, how do we categorize/reconcile/respond to people who are trapped in a Discrete-World-View? These folks are often Raised into their beliefs from the most impressionable ages (during Magical Thinking at 4-7 years old, or as irrational teens before the age of 23 years)...they are often cravenly Fearful for their own Security and the Salvation of others. They inadvertently persecute-from-inside-the-family by placing unreasonable demands and burdens on those around them.

It has been shown that the brain contains certain places involved in Religious Belief, and so it may be that some people are physically unable to resist dogmatism. Other people who have experienced Temporal Lobe "damage" report that they suddenly see and feel the Oneness of Everything! As though chains of neurons had been holding them in a World-View Prison before their accident, seizure, etc. Released them!

For whatever reason(s), Dogmatists/Literalists/"Fundamentalists" live in a Prison of Right-vs-Wrong-Judgements, and are much to be pitied. How awful to be so anxious and afraid for a lifetime!

In your private meditations, first send Love to someone you have Unconditional Regard for (a child works well, but yes, even your pet, if necessary), then send Love to Yourself, then send Love to those who are Close to you, then send Love to those who have Harmed you (whether by intention or accident).

Pray most especially that all people everywhere may become enlightened and free from error (whether due to design or instinct). Mercy Road is a short-cut to the Peace Palace.

I am filled with gratitude for your Understanding, and Bless you to continue growing in Virtue and Peace!

Sorry for the Detour, but I don't think a discussion about Persecution is complete without Forgiveness...