nestingwave

Hi brother Sky, To be a little clearer on my own personal perspective: Allow me to ask a couple of questions. First, can we agree that the basic intention of Almighty God (our One Source) is for the highest good of all the Created beings which emerged from the One Source? If so, your personal basic intention "for the highest good" is at the fundamental foundation of all your doing, whatever that may be, as a healer. Then, you are fully aligned with the Divine intention when well prepared in your own state of conscious readiness. The "belief" is not in the procedure but in the basic intention because procedures will vary according to the need of the moment and also according to ones limited range of concepts. "Procedure," which is not the basis of our belief in energetic healing, includes our preparation as an energetic healer. However, even when our belief is not in the procedure, that does not relieve anyone of the responsibility to be prepared to the very highest degree that is personally possible. In fact, your amount of preparation will directly reflect the strength and conviction of your belief in that basic intention for the highest good of your patient. You are steadfastly aligning yourself with that basic Divine intention by your careful and thoughtful preparation EVERY TIME before ever touching anyone. The details of such thoughtful and careful preparation will vary from healer to healer but most will say that meditation is basic. All the focused attentions are only the outward methodology of conveying the energetic vectored intention for the "highest good" which is most often completely beyond our understanding because it is automatically customized to the individual patient according to their individual energetic signatures which can only be completely discerned through honed intuition which undoubtely is a great lack in all of us, since we are all rank beginners at this, even if we have been at it for twenty seven years as I have. Otherwise we would be co-creating regular instant healings including regrowth of limbs, restored hearts, cleared mental and emotional problems and other phenomena that some would call "Divine miracles" and others would view as supernatural magic of the "devil." Such an energetic healer would have to remain very hidden and incognito indeed or else experience the ruination of "stardom" being raised up on a pedestal of idolatry by millions and finally murdered when they did not live up to the imposed expectations. And, that is exactly why that doesn't happen--but it is not "impossible" only highly imprudent. Of course, such energetic phenomena are neither "miracles" nor "magic" and most folks view them as "impossible" anyway--but they are not. No, I never did such things but have experienced enough strange energetic phenomena to fully believe that they are entirely possible. I have absolutely no doubt that they are possible and know how they are achieved but they require a life style, focus and dedication that is way beyond me at this point in my human incarnation where I am only first coming into my understanding of the powerful beings we ALL are. A fact greatly hidden from us for millenia. Such attentions may be the various methodologies that include Huna, Qigong, Acupuncture, Reiki, Herbology, Homeopathy, Chropractic, Christian Science, Traditional Alleopathy, Surgery, or whatever. And, yes, the details of any energetic co-creation itself are sub-conscious (you don't need to know anyway) but the basic intention is very conscious if ones belief system fully and genuinely accepts it from the beginning and has no doubt about it whatsoever. And that includes no doubt about the fact that the highest good is the Divine Intention as well as your own. And you are aligned with that Divine intention. All you have to do is not get in the way of it. There is no need to "wish" anything. In fact, a good example of "doubt" is "wish for." It is the "hope" that something might happen not the belief that the "highest good" for that moment will indeed be accomplished--but not necessarily according to your concepts. Also, "wish" includes the element of doubt that healing will occur at all. But, it may occur on a level deeper than you can readily see. And whatever you "wish" or "hope" might happen is according to your highly limited concepts only, not the Divine intention for the highest good of all beings which cannot fail. Only your alignment with that Divine intention can fail by elements that might get in the way of it. It depends upon how clear an outlet you allow yourself to become. Living water cannot flow through clogged pipes but the sick person may be healed anyway because he has relinguished all his own personal baggage in that particular moment. "Your faith has made you whole." And there is more to that than a healed cut or a mended arm. And your alignment with that basic Divine intention is simple. Only a full agreement without doubt. Any doubt means that one does not quite fully accept the Divine intention for the highest good of all created beings with which your own intention (as an energetic healer) can be fully aligned. For example, perhaps one still views Almighty God as one who curses and punishes those who refuse to fit into his doctrinal mold? But, this alignment with the Universal Intention makes you an outlet of the Divine when it is not obstructed by doubt such as "wishing" for your limited concept. "Wish for" is one's own supposition based upon ones own conceptual desire such as the healing of the disease or the relief of the person's pain with visual confirmation that such has occurred. Feedback that you "did well." A gold star on your report card. Pure egoism based upon doubt. The conditions of disease and/or pain are only the outward symptoms of a far more basic spiritual problem manifested in someone's physical meat-sack. "As a man thinks in his heart---so IS he." Your physical existence, including your biology and the environmental circumstances you find yourself in, comes from your non-physical THOUGHT. This may be hard to grasp at first, but your entire 4D physical world is a holographic projection of your own thought. When we realize the truth of that, we rethink and begin to take personal responsibility for our own thoughts and also the circumstances we ourselves have already energetically created through them. We no longer consider ourselves to be "victims" but powerful co-creators with the Divine. We can no longer "blame" others but are able to completely forgive them no matter how "bad" they were or what we thought they "did" to us. Herein is perfect freedom from all bondage. Yeshua well knew this of course. "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free." The turth is, you are responsible to know who and what you are and you are responsible for your own thoughts and your creations that arise from them. You can no longer play any kind of "blame game" at all. But, at the same time, no GUILT is called for only repentance which means re-thinking former false concepts that greatly hindered your life progress. The Buddhists simply call this "overcoming ignorance and suffering through self-realization." There are many ways to describe it. Intention, as used here, is a belief in the integrity of the natural process of energetic healing based upon how much one has actually seen and personally experienced of those natural processes in their own limited life experience and upon their degree of willing conscious alignment with that Universal intention which is to uplift Life in its incessant evolution toward growing awareness of the Source and how that translates into our daily lives in 4D. In other words we have to get completely out of the way of the Source and that means dropping our own desires/wishes and allow any co-creation of our intention to naturally occur according to all the subconscious and conscious elements involved--and indeed it will because that's the way all creation occurs all the time anyway including art, music, architecture, construction, mechanical invention or dance. Every one of those is creative willful (intentional) manipulation of energy and, in its most positive expression, is for the "highest good" of all concerned. So, this may give you some idea of the Universality of intention for the "highest good." It can become the basis for all human activity. What a civilization! No, creation didn't come to a stop after seven days but continues 24/7 even when there is no clock. It is all a salty wet beautiful living tango of infinite intelligent energy which is both entropic and neg-entropic coallessing and dissolving, morphing, mutating and transforming through the vast matrix of a holographic manifold of space-time and time-space across multifarious densities and dimensions way out beyond our tiny circumscribed human imaginations. That is--the Great Creation but the First Source is even beyond that--even beyond the thought boundary. And yet, it is a tiny singularity at the core heart of all in our present 4D holographic projection made up of our numberless individual holographic thought projections. But most of all, it is our All-Parent and we can have real relationship with love unconditional. Amazing indeed. Awesome in fact. In order for healing to take place, the healee must be ready and willing to open up to the possibiity in their own belief system. Or, you as the healer must coax the patient toward that, although you cannot do that for them only pave the way. They must participate in their own healing which also involves not getting in the way of it. This, in my opinion, is why (for example) CHARGING MONEY for energetic healing greatly hinders it by introducing ulterior motives which are so subtle and so much a part of our common every-day experiences that few are able to recognize this as any hinderance at all. However, some do and have much greater success. As far as I know, Yeshua never charged a single coin for his energetic healing ministry and neither did Gutama ever charge a single coin to learn about meditation or anything about the Dharma. In our present society we need to learn that some things are not for sale. This is what I mean by becoming an unrestricted outlet for the Universal intention of Source--instead of our own "wishing" which is a belief system that our wishful desire may (or may not) happen according to our own restrictive opinions about how we think it should happen. We 'wish" to win the lottery. We "wish" that Aunt Maude will recover. We "wish" that our prayers will be heard and that some separated "God" will not turn a deaf ear and restrain his supernatural powers because of his angry fury. We wish that the highest good will be accomplished but lack the confidence that it will be accomplished because we are fully aligned with the Divine intention but well know that our individual baggage is still standing in the way. "Wishing" is a belief system of doubt. It carries one away from the basic intention for the "highest good" while trying to make that "highest good" conform to our own very limited concepts. We have no idea what that "highest good" is because "highest" in the Divine intention is way beyond our cognitive thinking and even beyond our conscious awareness as well. I think this is what the son-of-man was touching on when he used the term "belief." Making a "wish" is quite different than belief. It is very easy to "wish" for something not aligned with the Universal Intention for the highest good but actually only aligned with our own personal desires (wishes) which we only assume to be the "highest good" and our personal desires can be very short of the Universal Intention for the very highest good of all because that Divine element is far beyond our limited concepts and usually not even close to our constructed concepts at all. Of course, if we think an energetic healing is due to our own cleverness or methodology we are setting ourselves up to be self-deceived--as you fully understand. You can see this every single day on so-called "Christian" Tee Vee and the many slick salesmen with $300 suits, hair-dos and expensive white shoes. A genuine energetic healer is certianly not a pop-star and is usually almost completely unknown. However, music can energetically heal and this is one effective methodology that I have personally used often with success--and without charge I may add. The reason why a true genuine energetic healer does not advertise is because he relys totally upon synchronicity to meet those in need. When he does this, his own needs are always met. Although he is poor in the eyes of the world, he is never impoverished. Yeshua is the best example I know of. "Go and tell no one." "Wishing" is ourselves determining what that "highest good" is and frankly we do not have near enough information to determine that. More factors are present than is readily apparent to our highly limited biophysical sensorium. There is a non-physical factor that simply cannot be ignored. Perhaps that better explains my own view of it. Having said this, I fully give agreement for you to wish for anything you wish to wish for because when you said "for the highest good of all" you are certainly on the right track and obviously HAVE had success with your "wishing." I think that indicates that your belief in the basic intention for the "highest good" outweighs any disappointments you may have encountered in your doubt when a "wish" was not always fulfilled. But any lack of fulfillment may only be the lack of fulfillment of what you "wished" for and yet, in reality, it may have been the expression of the Divine intention for the "highest good." at that temporal moment, anyway. Some folks fail to recognize the "highest good" even when they receive it because of their own limited conceptualizations and wishings which may even be contradictory to that basic Divine intention. So, in my own experience, when through synchronicity the opportunity arises to apply energetic healing to someone who feels they are in need of healing, I look for a change of perspective and attitude when energetic healing is applied, not only physical proof of the relief of symptoms--although that at times has outwardly appeared spectacular and even stretched my own concepts of what I thought was possible. I too am a child of reductionistic materialist/realism. I too received my education in the public schools and universities. The only way I can even begin to understand my own part in those instances of co-creation is my intense focus on that inner basic intention and my knowing beyond any doubt that it is fully aligned with the Divine intention I have just been speaking about. Certainly it is not about any methodology I used because that has been different in almost every single case according to the need of the moment and the individual patient involved. I am not confined or bound by any one "system" because the methodology is the least important item. In my view, the basic intention is the most important element and that is what I continue to cultivate. It is very uncomplicated. The fact is, we already live and move and have our being in an incomprehensible ocean of infinite energy and intelligence and apply it through our will ALL THE TIME. All of us do that whether we are aware of it or not. I do suggest that it behoves us to become aware of it. All it takes is simply noticing it. Energetic healing is nothing strange nor peculiar nor complicated at all and any lack of "success" I may have is only due to my own lack of preparation by not taking care of my own state of consciousness which determines my ability (or lack of ability) to interface with discreet energetic frequencies and thereby intuitively discern the energetic signatures of anyone seeking healing that I may encounter through synchronicity. A genuine energetic healer is not interested at all in procuring "clients." They are drawn to him/her or not drawn to him/her by synchronicity only. Divine energetic healing is not a "profession" but a continual confession and proclamation of the One Source---the same One and Only Source that every spiritual teacher that ever incarnated on planet earth pointed directly to--never to himself. That is my personal concept of it and it works for me. Brother Sky, you and I have the exact same basic intention, only, in my view, there is no need to "wish" for it because it is a Universally fully established fact underlying all the Great Creation in all the worlds of time and space. We are ALL already completely immersed in that fact and all anyone ever needs to do is recognize it and acknowledge it. But, they cannot do that until it is real to them and guides their belief system without any doubt. So, this is my personal goal as a healer. And, even uttering these words of affirmation leads me further along the path toward that goal. "That which I do, ye shall do also," said Yeshua, "and even greater things than these shall ye do because I go to the Father." That is for right now, not tomorrow or back two thousand years ago. I don't just only have "faith" in these words because my ears hear them but personally believe in them because my eyes have seen and my hands have touched and I have experienced living water flowing out of my own belly and drank the living water of others as well--including everyone posting on this thread. Thank you all. namaste

These further thoughts come to mind. This is a basic intention out of which all attentions can emerge and that is a step toward personal bliss rather than suffering. When a person recognizes that there never is and ever was any lack of energy and all energy can be focused and accessed from the basic intention, then one can choose whatever focus vehicle they prefer in order to direct the energy, such as moving the hands over the body. Whatever is comfortable without stress and strain. If you take the metaphor "hand" and broaden it to mean "touch," then even your thoughts become your "laying on of hands" that is, directing the energy for the "highest good of the soul" regardless of what that may be. Certainly not only according to the very limited perspective of whatever is outwardly apparent. That is not the "bottom line," so to speak, but only the most outward symptom. And, you do not have to know the details of what that "highest good" is at all. In fact, you need not even speculate. The energy itself knows exactly where to go according to that basic intention and will do so invariably because that's how the Great Creation operates. This in no way lessens ones own personal responsibility to be the best outlet and channel of that healing energy that one can possibly be. So, all we need to "do" is relax and allow when we understand and believe in the integrity of the process. Let go and let be, once that basic flow is established through our own individual conscious connecting to our First Source allowing ourselves to be an outlet to be tapped according to whatever lack needs to be filled in order to bring a human instrument back online and into resonant harmony with it's Self, both physical and non-physical. And the only way we can allow that connection to be made (in the first place) is to "let go" and "let" our First Source, which most call "God" or whatever designation one wishes to call their innermost core Light/life/Love. That established conscious connection with the Source of All-That-Is, is step number one. There is no need to "dissect" how it happens, (the process) but only trust in the innate intelligence of the process itself as a conveyor of your basic core intention. Mother Nature herself does quite well with the details of the process and considers all the factors, including many that our limited cognitive minds cannot yet even imagine. She selectively transmutes the continuing ambient Universal energy fields all the time--and does so rather well. Expertly, I'd say. So, humility and appreciation by and for the human instruments are required, along with the basic intention which can be truthfully stated as "a wish for the highest good of the soul." However, personally, I would not use the words "wish for" but "belief in." Why? Because it is already an established fact in the realm of the established intention and only needs to be realized and manifested through conscious awareness of the already existing potential which has no objection since it is aligned with the basic intention of Universal Creation. And that is a belief system that comes along through direct personal experiences and not through second or third-hand information such as whatever is cognitively gained through mental examination of various systems via "learning" and "assimilation." Methodology can (and does) vary greatly. For example, in one story, Yeshua once put mud over a blind person's eyes (blind from birth) and completely restored his physical sight in an incremental manner. What was called for in that particular incidence in space--time is in no way a "textbook" methodology. There is no textbook methodology because the methodology is spontaneous, according to the need of the moment. Circumstances vary greatly. That particular nexus of synchronicities is sure to vary the next time and may call for an entirely different methodology, or a modified one, which depends on an entirely different set of awarenesses, causalities and circumstances. After all, our physical body is only a meat-sack, vessel, container, or to put it more eloquently "a HUMAN INSTRUMENT" to contain and flow out the Spirit/Soul. This can manifest as any kind of energetic creation (or co-incidence of creations) between the healer and the healee who are, in reality, one and the same--however, expressing in two human instruments as two different personalities on the surface level. In the case of "healer/healee" the healer's awareness of this fact is sufficient and the healee receives both the benefits from it and also receives yet another strong indication in his/her own life flow about the omnipotent First Source within and his/her undeniable interconnectivity with other discreet energy fields all around him/her. The adept "healer" has once been a "healee" themselves and that is what helped them to become cognizant of their own inner Source. By "healee" I don't ncessarily mean the recipient of "laying on of hands" or some other method of energetic healing. Laughter can also heal both physical and emotional ills. So can MUSIC. Anything can be an instrument of healing due to the effect it has on the human consciousness. My CAT set my wife's broken shoulder and the bone-doctor. with over 30 years experience, fully admitted it with awe but with no incredulity. Quite a surprise to me. A bell, for example, can be a resonating RING that deeply stirs ones conscious awareness by simply saying, "HELLO?." Like an alarm clock set for 7am, it awakens the sleeper. Likewise, a photograph, a strong piece of poetry or visual art or energetic interface with the auric fields of plants, animals or other human beings. Anything that reminds us of the fact of our basic ONE SOURCE and our unbroken interconnectivity with All-That-Is, deeply stirs ones conscious awareness into resonantly realigning itself by attuning to the processes of the Great Creation with its vast unlimited filed of infinite energy and intelligence. In other words, when we "lay hands upon the sick and they recover," the "recovery" is more than a mere "correction" of the symptoms of a physical illness (or pain) but can be a fundamental opening of the healee's awareness. This can be slight or great or any degree in between, according to what any healee is able and ready to receive. That's why one person's "healing" can be great and permanent and another's can be slight and/or varying. Either way, life is promoted according to the original basic intention, which can be stated as "a wish for the highest good of the soul." Or, as I would state, "A belief in the highest good of the soul" to become manifest. Manifested where? In the apparently "outside" environment for all to witness. Life is in no way selfish but always longs to spread and propagate where ever and when ever it can. At this point, the biggest danger is that the healee would mistake the "power" of their own Source for the power of the healer laying hands upon them. When that happens, which it often does, the healer is then put upon a pedestal of stardom and ignorance because the Truth of the matter has been side-stepped and averted. namaste

Me too. Leads one to think that those "common themes" are very basic to how we as human creators create. The differences come, of course, in cultural metaphors to express them plus added ritual, some of which is excess baggage that may actually distract away from those "common themes." Ritual can focus attention beyond the ritual to those common themes, or it can become an end in itself and thus distract one from the basics. namaste

Hello Morning Light Sky, Yes, those seven principles are magnificent and very easy for a person to prove to themself. They are very natural indeed. I like principle 3: Could you expound a little on it? I am particularly interested in what you might have to say about "Attention" and what relationship it might have to "INtension?" namaste PRINCIPLE 3 MAKIA: ENERGY FLOWS WHERE ATTENTION GOES

Okay, the very first link in the google page I gave above is VERY good. Huna Scrool down a little to the second box and there you will find a link: Huna principles Very simple. Read that. I find it very basic and helpful. namaste

Hi, brother Sky, Here is a goggle link to many sites about the Huna healing system, which as I understand it, is very related to Reiki. Huna Healing System namaste

In my view, you are very correct. Such interference is not allowed. If such was the case, instead of a "Spirit Guide" it would be a "Spirit Dictator" and completely contradictory to the way the Universe operates in its incessant evolution of life and consciousness. Now, on the other hand, a lower astral frequency that one invites in will always be of a controlling mindset. The "devil-made-me-do-it" scenario. But actually, it is easy to tell which is which----but, if a person is inviting such astral scum in the first place, they are often likely not to realize this principle and allow themselves to become very deceived indeed and begin to expend their energy on an illusory battle with windmills that appear to be dragons. It is all a matter of one's own heart and its basic intention, either for selfishness or for the highest good of all concerned (and that, of course, includes oneself.) Why? Simply because fear brings angst and suffering while unconditional love brings inner peace and happiness. Those old cartoons of a devil on your left shoulder and an angel on your right, each whispering into your ear is a metaphorical exteriorization of what's going on inside our own soul. And, always, it is WE who choose which way to go. I have had angelic "intervetions" that were quite physical indeed. On the other hand I once entertained some evil thoughts that almost instantly resulted in me stepping on a metal peanut can barefooted and nearly dying from loss of blood. Every step I took for a month and a half after that was a.... uh.... reminder? No outside pressure, just the Law of Cause and Effect in action. Instant Karma. From such experiences one learns the importance of what their own thoughts can produce. Sweet peaches are far more pleasant to eat than cactus thorns. Every tree eventually produces its own kind of fruit according to its energetic signature (nature.) All things grow, develop and come to fruition according to its particular cyclic nature. Sometimes rapidly, sometimes not so rapidly. And, I think if we are honest, we can all say that we have experienced both ends of the spectrum. Making choices is always our own personal responsibility. There are no "invasions," only what you invite in. You get whatever you call upon from the depths of your core energetic frequency and intention, not necessarily from your cognitive thinking processes. Interestingly, the UFO/ETI experience is precisely the same because they are interdimensional experiences. In fact, our interpretations of our experiences are what we remember about them. Although the people of Haiti are undergoing a terrible crisis at the moment, not all are experiencing horror and fear. Some are panicing, looting, running amok but others (actually the majority) are co-operating, saving their neighbors, ministering to the wounded and viewing the experience as a new beginning rather than despairing that it is the "end" of everything. All a "Spirit Guide" does, from my own perspective, is remind us of Who and What we are and how each and every one of us is totally interconnected. Some people "name" their "Spirit Guides," others do not. So, we and we alone must make a choice, either to embrace that reminder of Who and What we are or reject it, which happens (most often) due to our own selfishness and desire for instant gratification or the interruption of our own convienience. {quote]I like Brother Michael Sky's description of soul groups, etc. It has been explained to me much the same way (with a few differences) by spirits I work with. Me too. But, there will always be variations in our interpretations of what is going on since a large portion of such experiences are completely beyond our usual four dimensions with which we are the most familiar. For example, some consider 1) "Spirit Guides" to be external "spirit entities" or different "souls" than our own. 2) Others recognize them as their own "higher self" of which we only occasionally become aware and, when we do, "channel" into our cognitive understanding. The received information is always downstepped through our personal mental processing grids accordomg to the information already contained therein. That's all our interpretive mind has to work with to construct a senario that makes cognitive sense. A way to describe this is that it is a kind of peeking through of our own higher consciousness. From my own point of-view, I tend to to accept the #2 view but the effect can be the same either way. Except, that if one views such "Spirit Guides" to be outside entities completely apart from themselves, then the idea of outside manipulation can easily insult ones understanding of their own personal soverignty and assume that there is an outside pressure of manipulation, which, in my view, is not the case. Some, likewise think that "demons" or "astral scum" are separated "invading" entities, however, each and every one of us is immersed in those lower vibrations also, which Carl Jung called our "shadow." We all have a "shadow self" as well as our "higher self." They are both US. We listen to one or we listen to the other. And again, we continually choose which to follow according to our deepest heart's intention. I think that's where meditation, and opening our hearts, becomes our greatest benefit as far as our life path is concerned. Certainly our greatest benefit when it comes to our inner desire to serve others through the comfort of healing. Nice to meet you, Sky of Morning Dawn. hmmmm.... the sky is expanding. Cool. namaste

Ever seen healing at a distance? namaste

Much wisdom here, brother Sky. "Desperately wanting" may cause a blockage itself simply because the "letting go and letting be" can be easily stifled by our own concepts---well meaning, however often counterproductive. When I pulse my chi outward to heal, it is only driven by one emotion and that is for the highest good of the patient. There is no consideration of any personal judgment that I may have---yay or nay---good or bad---like or dislike---visible improvement or no visible improvement. That is, the basic intention has no strings attached and can be intense without any hesitation or doubt. All the necessary power of emotion can be funneled into that basic intention. It includes the basic heart compassion to comfort, inspire and uplift life to its highest potential. In this intention there is absolutely no concept about "what" that highest good may be----only that it be the most useful need for the highest good of that person at the most present moment---a need beyond my ability to fully discern. The Universe decides what that need really is, knowing the patient far better than I. I am only a conduit of the chi and far from an expert on that person's Karmic situation and would be foolish to entangle my own Karma or collide with the other person's Karma causing some interference according to my own very limited concepts. And yes, the chi can be used to destroy as well as heal and I will talk more about that later. One need not fear however, if that basic intention for the "highest good" is maintained and ramped up with fervent emotion. Any personal agendas will dissipate that every time, even when one assumes that such a personal agenda is "righteous." For example, if a person is charging money for healing, that must be factored into the entire intention. Personally, charging for healing is like charging for meditation technique and in my experience I have seen it to be counterproductive every time. In matters of the spirit we must depart from restrictive social concensus thought memes and let go of them. If we are not willing to, it means we are clutching a counterproductive thought form and accepting it as normal. Of course, I do not expect everyone to hold that opinion and have personally taken much flak over it. In my own view, if a person is to charge money they must never deny to help someone because they have no money to pay. If such healing ministry is not given freely to those who are poor, then its effect is greatly reduced. This includes meditation too. However, on the other hand, if a person receiving something transformative doesn't have the gratitude to give something back in exchange, then whatever they received can only be temporary. However, such "exchange" need not be money at all. There is little appreciation and gratitude expressed in money anyway, in a social system where money is thought to buy everything from plastic surgery and toothpaste to the bodies, minds and souls of men. To me, the things of the Spirit are in a totally different category and should be recognized as such. However, as "conductor" the chi can be directed to afflicted parts of the body where the patient is experiencing pain, such as back problems as long as the basic intention is maintained. Now, back problems may or may not be due to the kidneys, for example. I have no need to know which... the chi will go where it is aimed and will spread out where needed, if my only intention is for the patients highest good and I am not trying to "manipulate" the energy because I trust in that basic intention to direct it where needed. Even if I am remote viewing the person's body to see where the problem is, that basic intention must be maintained in order to not cause any damage. If I consciously try to focus it somewhere any more than that basic intention, then, as you say, I am operating out of my own concept and not trusting the process, the whole of which I cannot know anyway because my interface with that patient is and always will be, partial and limited according to my limited conscious awareness. So, even as a conductor who aims the energy at specific parts of the body which are causing pain, for example, or an obvious tumor etc., I need not use any cognitive process other than maintaining focus upon the basic intention for the highest good whatever that may be. And it is not always the healing of anything immediately visible. Brother Sky, could you define what you mean by "someone" and expand a little on that point? namaste Thanks for this brother Sky. Are you a Reiki practitioner? namaste

In my view, an energetic healer is both a conduit and a conductor. He/she is a conduit in that they let go, get out of the way and let the energy flow through them. They are a conductor in that they vector their intention where they wish the energy to go. Energetic healing is both biological as well as spiritual. It is biological in that an "energy sink" occurs. It is spiritual in that the cells are reminded of their part in the life purpose of the human instrument which they serve. The term "energy sink" is thusly defined: Our biology is able to tap the Universal Intelligent Energy Field and draw this energy into itself. It happens to us all the time. The outward symptom of this is whenever you get goose bumps. What is happening is that your bodily cells are reaching their maximum capacitance of the energy they can hold. When you are frightened you get goose bumps because your body is suddenly having an "energy sink" and your cells are charging up to be ready to protect the body. When you are greatly awed, your ego is no longer standing in the way and an "energy sink" occurs. You get goose bumps. Likewise when you experience great beauty or experience a sudden synchronicity you feel that tingly sensation as you are suddenly reminded intuitively of your interconnectivity with all that is. All of us have experienced this. Salem Witch Child, an empath feels the pain of the other person because they are interfacing with their energy field. Their "aura." With such interface you can tell where the problem is and where your energy needs to be directed through your vector intention. However, a person does not have to be an empath in order to energetically heal. An empath has to be on guard not to become so entangled in the other persons pain as to become distracted themselves. Quite a challenge. The emotion of our heart's compassion is a very important element. Strong emotion could be called the "carrier wave" of the subtle healing energy which is at the sub-quantum level and does not "travel" from point A to point B but emerges from the singularity wherever it is directed by the healer (as conductor) through their vector intention. That's why healing at a distance can occur and often does. The human body already knows how to heal itself. The energy only reminds and inspires it at the cellular level to do so. All disease can be looked upon as an energy blockage. Once the bodily energy centers become balanced and flowing in the normal way, healing occurs spontaneously. However, if the cells have already decided to shut down because the life cycle of the human instrument is over, all that may occur is a lessening of pain and a much more peaceful death free of anxiety. namaste

Greetings, Fawzo, Salem Witch Child and Sky. All of your comments so far have given me goose bumps. It is so wonderful that you three jumped right into this (some would say) esoteric subject. I consider that to be very significant and even in the few words all three of you have already spoken so far, new considerations and possibilities are already opening. By sharing our experiences and points of view with each other in a transparent way, we can learn quite a bit from each other and help each other to facilitate our inner intentions to spread wellness to all beings, including ourselves. The challenge is to trust one another and remain open. May we be willing to trust in our kindred spirits as friends, let go and let be. Salem Witch Child and Sky, it is so good to meet you two on an energetic level. Fawzo and I have already been close in this way for quite a while. Although we are all such different personalities, at some level we all recognize our energetic interface. And we have overlapping similar experiences that have not shut us off to the unfolding possibilties. Brother Sky, I know very little about Reiki, could you tell us a little about your experience there and how you discovered that you have a natural healing gift? I found your avatar very interesting. Frankenstein's "monster" as played by Boris Karloff. A "monster" with a very gentle streak that had considerable physical abilities but at heart only wanted to be free, to love and be loved in return. Then underneath your avatar you have "Relenting Misanthrope" Now, Misanthropy is "a general dislike, distrust, disgust, contempt, or hatred of the human species." <==wiki. When an angry mob chases you with termination on their mind, no "explanation" will suffice so running to a better life of beauty and peace is the only option. However, to be "relenting" means to let persecution go. In other words, forgive. "Let go and let God," as you say. Like Frankenstien's "monster" your God-given gift as a healer makes you somewhat of a mis-fit in our ordinary social concensus reality. We can probably all relate to that. I know I can. Salem Witch Child, your avatar is quite energetically sexy. You, of course, have felt persecution for being out-of-the-box but you know who you are--a beautiful woman full of life energy and you even take away the pain of other beings. Thank you. You get depressed at times, but you do not let it get you down. You are the goddess, the Universal Mother and yet a fierce warrior that protects her own brood with her very life. Fawzo is a Llama (Lama) who prefers the simple warmth of the heart to intellectual struggles. We just want to hug him and look into his sweet face of peace that ultimately says, "Its all going to be okay, no sweat." nestingwave is blue energetic hand that wants to ride the cosmic pulse while nested in the eternity of the phi spiral relationship--waves that never collide and cancel themselves out. So, synchronicity has brought us together here. Let us share our hearts. namaste

OK. Let's discuss this. First, I have no doubt that it is real and works simply because I have seen it work and have some small experience in using it. However, I can fully understand why someone might not believe that, having had a different experience and being in a culture where, up till now, it has not been accepted as "real" or "scientifically proven" to the satisfaction of those who have their own parameters for such "proof" and feel such "proof" is the only measure of what's "real" and what is not. But, our present culture is only a drop in the sea of history. All indigenous cultures across the planet have known about energetics for thousands of years as have previous high civilizations. Now, the materialist/realist scientific paradigm, which we in our culture have been under for only a few hundred years, is showing itself to be far short of explaining much at all about Mother Nature. Much of this limitation is due to the cultural separation from Mother Nature and the passed down idea of our recent ancestors of CONQUERING NATURE rather than living in harmony with her and appreciating her great wisdom. People have still not quite come to grips with the fact that the entire Universe is a play of energies on an infinite number of frequencies interacting in all dimensions of space-time and time-space. As Einstein once said, "there is NO SUCH THING AS MATTER." And every scientist now knows that everything is energy spinning in different configurations----and that includes what we call "solid" matter. There is no "solid" matter because the space between all the spinning particles of energy (that were called "matter") is far more vast than the spinning particles themselves. And what we call "particles" are in reality only various configurations of spinning energy with various magnetic polarities. The example usually given is a golf ball at one end of a football field. The adjacent particle (in what we refer to as "solid" matter) is a golf ball clear down at the other end of the football field. This is a greatly enlarged vision of the microcosm but shows the real proportional relationship between "matter" and "space." So, is this "space" empty? Nope. It consists of a sub-quantum energy flux, (the seething "vacuum" energy) in what is referred to as the "time-domain." This is entirely outside of our readily experienced 4D and yet totally resonating and interacting with it. That is an analogy of what we refer to as "solid" matter. There is far more space than there are particles. What we are able to "see" of the Universe is not the whole thing by a long shot but only a tiny tiny portion of it in four dimensions---width, length, depth and one of linear time made up of various time-lines. The Galactic macrocosm operates by the same creative principle as the mesocosm and the mircrocosm according to the Fractal Geometry of repeating patterns which are always in energetic resonance. There is no exact line that can be drawn between what we call "organic" and "inorganic." The entire Unverse is very much ALIVE. The entire Great Creation is a Holographic energy field in which even the tiniest part not only reflects the whole but also contains the information of the Whole. Genetics is a materialized expression of this and is very pliable and able to morph easily according to its interaction with any particular energetic environment. It is now known that all energy is not just blind-force (as once supposed) but INTELLIGENT INFORMATION. The Great Creation is the Universal Energetic Information Field which contains infinite mirrors of itself on all scales and in all dimensions. So, how much of this Universal Information Field can we access and assimilate? Only as much as our conscious awareness will allow. However, our conscious awareness is only a tiny portion of the vast Energetic Information Field of which we are an integral part while being fully immersed and fully interconnected with all portions because of its singularity. But our conscious awareness is only partial and varies in scope considerably as it grows. morphs and evolves. That's what makes you and I individual beings with individual vantage points and thus differing points-of-view according to our own individual experiences. The above is what modern physics is finally discovering. It includes a most important element which only came into serious consideration in the late 1980s----human consciousness. It was the discovery of the geometrical shape of the DNA molecule that brought a serious scientific inquiry into human consciousness since the late 1980s. Considerable progress has been made but only the surface scratched. However, the path to take in this inquiry is clear as are also the former destructive concepts which must be abandoned, because they were just plain untrue. For example that man and Nature are separate and man is superior, needing to conquer Nature for the sake of his own cognitive plans and ambitions. The outcome of that is, of course, the irresponsible trashing of the entire planet, earth, air, water and fire in the name of "civilization" that is in reality, barbarism of the most destructive kind. Much of our present dis-ease can be directly traced to this blundering ignorance. So, if everything is a play of energy, is it possible to understand how these energies interact? And since we ourselves are an energy field, can we, as conscious entities, willfully influence our bodily energetic interactions? In my own view there is no doubt about it. And, in fact, we already do it all the time but are only partially aware of it. Now. The question is HOW? How can the energetic healing of the human instrument be practically accomplished? Any suggestions? namaste

OK. Check by tomorrow in "Stories Beliefs and Trials." It will be entitled: "Energetic Healing." I will greatly appreciate your participation, brother Sky, but I also invite virulent opposers, skeptics, near-skeptics, non-skeptics and anyone else. No exclusivity here. I am just a student of energetic healing with only small experience. However, I wish to increase my understanding and so I ask for lots of input and questions, a few of which I can give a partial answer according to my own limited experience but most of which I cannot. Some folks have pieces to the puzzle that they don't even presently know they have. We may even be able to devise some practical energetic healing experiments. I think we owe it to our extremely ill world and all her suffering children to explore this as thoroughly as possible and even if we only get slightly into it, something of real value could be achieved. Or, it might fall flatter than a pancake, as other healing threads have before. Most folks in our present culture of materialism put their faith in pharmaceuticals and knives even when those items are often proven to be highly counterproductive. The religious often tend to relegate anything that doesn't fit this paradigm to the "supernatural" and thus beyond their ability to approach or understand except through begging petition of they know not what. namaste

Sometimes the biggest healing of all is a peaceful death knowing that others care for you. When you declare that "it didn't work" what you mean is "it didn't work according to my narrow concept of how it should work." There is a big difference. namaste

As brother Sky just pointed out, Reiki healers are now even accepted in some hospitals. Why? Because there is demonstratible evidence that energetic healing works. Like Einstein said, "there is no such thing as matter---all is energy." Matter is just energy spinning in different configurations. You have not yet realized that thought is a vibration also. Your biology vibrates continually. All energy is a vibration. The entire Universe vibrates. Oh yes it does. And you are totally wrong about there being no "demonstratable" evidence. True, it is not accepted by the materialist/realist paradigm under which most of us were miseducated. You simply have not seen it because your belief system is clouded by that materialist/realist education. However, that is what you know and thus your belief system and its skepticism. And, that's perfectly okay. I am not here to "convince" you of anything, only to share my own experience. Take it or leave it. Whether you believe that the laying on of hands avails anything or not, does not matter in the least, only not being open to such a possibility highly limits a persons perspective. The fact that Jesus Christ said it should give you an inkling that something might be there, even if it goes against the materialist/realist thinking with which we were all enculcated in our present world paradigm. Yet, the laying on of hands will continue because many know, as I do, that it is effective beyond any shadow of a doubt just as Jesus Christ himself said and often demonstrated also, being a well recognized energetic healer in a previous culture which did not reject such things. Yes, Jesus was very accurate on that point. And it is very clear precisely how it is done, how and why it works and it is open to all, not just him and the many others throughout history who have practiced it, such as the Qigong Masters whose abilities have now been verified by western science as have many of the Shamans in South America who know very well how to use energy in various ways for healing and that is no secret nor difficult to find out about. So, yes, it is my belief system but not just an opinion out of my own supposition nor something that I only read in a book somewhere but have direct experience with. And whether you believe what I say or not also does not matter in the least because anyone can verify it for themselves if they are open to the possibility. And, if they are not, so be it. namaste

Exactly. Very astute observation. Not only "related" but fully interconnected all the time. Dr. Lipton has proved beyond any shadow of a doubt the full interaction between mind/body and it is continual. Our bodily cells respond directly to our own thoughts and that's what "Cell Talk" is all about. The limitation is only our own belief system as to what is possible. If you believe something is "impossible" indeed it is. Likewise, if you believe something is possible it certainly is. In this way we determine what our "reality" is and what it is not. Not yet anyway. Most folks think such things are "impossible" and so they are. However, they are not "impossible" in the Great Creation. Other genetic beings, such as Salamanders do this all the time. We too have that potential within our DNA because all DNA is not only related but interconneted. It only needs to be released through becoming activated. And that occurs through the focus of our belief system. Our thought effects our DNA. Our cognitive minds formulate our belief system. Our belief systems focus our Meissner fields. (human aura) Lipton found that our DNA responds to EVERYTHING including our own thoughts. DNA is the most pliable physical matter that there is. No other physical matter has such ability to morph in response to whatever is in the environment. The tiniest ripple in the energy field is responded to, such as thought-forms and subtle energetic patterns such as chemicals on a molecular level or EM radiations on a quantum level or scalar waves on a sub-quantum level. Thought energies work at both the quantum and sub-quantum range. They are a bridge between dimensions. They are interdimensional. We are already interdimensional beings focused into a Four Dimensional experiential hologram we call our physical "world." Uh.... how would you really know that? Thse dear folks are highly infected by Christianity Tee Vee. So, what made the illness go into relapse in the first place? What made the cancer come back? Their own thought-forms which in most cases were beyond their control. FEAR will bring the cancer back every time. LOVE heals all. My wife has X-rays that show her broken shoulder before and AFTER the cat SET THE BONE. The kitty crawled up on her broken shoulder purred, tapped her to turn over a bit, scunched herself underneath the broken bone, purred louded and my wife felt the bone snap back into place. The bone doctor said he had never in all his 30 years of experience dealing with broken bones seen anyone heal so fast. It was the cats PURR up on her shoulder throughout her recovery that facilitated that healing. And that also is a proven fact. In Europe they even use a mechanical machine that re-produces the sound vibrations of a cat's purr and they are used to help broken bones heal rapidly. Of course, that is outside our materialist/realist scientific paradigm that is called the "Standard Scientific Model." Most folks have no idea historically how that materialist/realist paradigm came about. It was in the days of Descarte. The Catholic Church said, "OK, we and we alone will handle all spiritual matters but you can look into all things physical." That division between "spiritual" and "physical" produced the materialistic reductionistic scientific paradigm of today. The basic philosophy of reductionism is that you can find out how the Universe and Nature operates by carefully breaking it apart and studying all the component parts of it and then figuring out how they all function together. Totally absurd. The Great Creation is far more than the sum of its component material parts. We are in a very dark age actually. It is called the "Cartesian Split" and, as a civilization, we are still very much emmersed in that error against God, Nature and Reality. When you understand that healing is an energetic phenomena, then you will get what I am talking about. There is much medical evidence that cannot be explained away by the present materialist/realist scientific paradigm that governs what is called the "Standard Scientific Model." Any doctor will tell you that they have seen things that their knowledge about "science" does not explain and in fact often contradicts their beliefs based upon the science they learned. Exactly. The experience I described is not my only such experience. But, in that case, the girl herself knew something had happened that shifted things from a rapid plunge into death to life and healing. Perhaps it was the change of her own depressed thought when she heard the scripture from issiah and was then able to receive the energy necessary to heal her damaged cells. The doctor saying "its a miracle" is only his lack of knowledge about how the mind interconnected with the human body operates. As I said before, energetic healing is in no way a "supernatural" phenomena. To a materialist/realist, a "miracle" is only something that works outside their known science and that they assume is breaking the Laws of Nature but actually is not because the Laws of Nature extend much much further than our present so-called "scientific knowledge." God is not sitting up in outer space on a golden throne deciding who is worthy of physical healing and who is not---as the ianity often teaches. Some folks know that their life-cycle is over and that they are going to pass. There is nothing anyone can do to stop that. Nor should they. Our cells have a built in program when to begin to shut down. Death is not the end as many folks think due to our long enculturation. Only a new beginning. Our minds are not confined to our physical brain, although our linear thought processing is confined to our physical brains and we find it difficult to imagine anything BUT linear thought processes, however, there is energetic interfacing which is already happening all the time, although we most often do not recognize it because cognitive thought processes demand and hold our attention. It was unexpected energy that caused her bodily cells to very quickly knitt her burned out esophagus, throat and scorched intestines. To the doctors, something beyond their experience. It wasn't a "supernatural miracle" at all, just the unusual (and in this case very spontaneous) application of energy not often seen and most likely never seen before by those doctors. Often, those serving others in the middle of a plague never get sick themselves because their focus is on helping those who are afflicted. When Chernoble happened and huge amounts of radiation were released, some of the Russian firemen plunged into the highly radiated areas to offer aid to the dying. They expected to die of radiation poisoning themselves. However, they didn't. Some of them never even got ill. Surprise surprise. Why? Because of their willingness to give their own lives to comfort the dying. Somehow, their selfless thought forms became a physical protection. Who knows if they were "Christians" or not. Probably not, being raised as atheistic communists. But, they put aside their own self-interests out of true compassion for others. That mind-set itself produces abundant life-energy and has no religious qulifications. The Universal Energy Field is tapped through our thought as biologist Bruce Lipton and many others have now discovered. No one would consider that a "supernatural miracle" including you. That is a poor analogy to use in this case. There are no such "supernatural miracles." All a "miracle" really is, is something our present science cannot explain. But healing that occurs through the laying on of hands and other thought processes, even at a distance, is entirely the natural focus of thought energy. It can also be used to kill as voodoo black magicians and others with evil intent well know---and some of them are politicians in three piece suits and highly respected in society. Learning to use and properly focus energy is the key, as the Qigong healers tell us. Just asking God to do something supernaturally does not suffice. God says, "why are you asking me to do something you are already well capable of doing yourself?" God never does ANYTHING that one of his servants can do. All our doubts, fears, beliefs, abilities, understandings come about through our differing human experiences. So, there is no need for me to "forgive" you because you are only operating out of what you know and believe like all of us. There is no need to "forgive" another being for not being "perfect." We are all in kindergarten and very limited beings at this point. That's why we all need to overcome our limitations in order to become more Christlike and better outlets for the Christ within to flow out. All of our experiences are highly limited. Our "beliefs" come about through what we have seen in our own individual experiences. It cannot be otherwise. In my own belief system, I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that it "can" happen simply because I have experienced it and more than once. But I also know that there is a tremendous responsibility involved in consciously handling the energy from the Universal Intelligent Energetic Information Field that is everywhere and everyplace in all time and space. If we suddenly could pray and heal someone, we would have a huge ego-problem.... unless..... we had been living the life-style that Jesus and the disciples lived. Energetic healing requires a giving up of so much that we normally hold "dear" in our life-style that few are willing to make that choice. It is a choice that emerges out of an inner calling that is according to your individual purpose for being on this earth and the calling of a healer is simply not for everyone. Just because you prayed for people and they died, does not negate the power of prayer at all nor does it say anything at all about healing. Next time you are in that situation and have a patient dying in pain, try interfacing with them. You may actually feel their agony. Have a conversation between your spirit and theirs. Comfort. Then try sensing the organic problem. Remember all that you know about human anatomy and the trillions of cells that make up our wonderful physical bodies. Talk to the cells directly. Appreciate them. Give them a "high-five." Remind them of what they are suppose to do and ask them to resume their normal function. In the case of cancer you have cells running amok. Remind them that they are not there for their own purposes but to coordinate with that human vessel for the sake of their life's mission and purpose. Then when you lay your hands upon the patient imagine a very compassionate energy flow from you to them. This may drain you very much if you are not prepared as before stated. However, it is absolutely proven to be effective. How effective it will be depends upon the previous preparation. But, it cannot hurt because your intention is for the highest good of the one suffering. It has been discovered that the palms of your hands contain neurons that are highly sensitive to magnetic fields. (Dowsing for example has now been proven to be a real phenomena by much scientific study) Your hands can become masers of energy transport. That's why people get so much therapy from properly done body message. "Father, I give myself to become an open channel of your energy to this suffering person." Get yourself out of the way. Let go of your expectations and let that life-energy fill you up and let it flow through your hands into the suffering person because of God's love in you for them. Never ever arbitrarily say, "YOU ARE HEALED." That may only be your own analytical speculation. They will not jump up and say, "I'm healed!"---as is so often advertised in the propaganda. But they may at least pass this life with some comfort. And, if that's all that happens, God has touched them through you. Have NO expectations and NO doubts. Or they may completely "recover" as Jesus said. That's not up to you. It may be their desire to depart because their life-cycle is simply over. So be it. I have seen nurses in hospitals and I'm sure you have too, whose VERY PRESENCE is comfort and healing to the patients. It is really quite remarkable some times. I have seen others who are just the opposite because their energy fields create stress whereever they go. They should not even be involved at all in hospital work. I used to be a caregiver for developmentally disabled and mentally retarded adults before I retired. Many times I prayed for them. This was before I ever knew anything at all about "cell talk" or the now-proven mind/body interface. I always knew that was true but the scientific evidence for it only came in recently. Yet, I would often lay hands on them and pray and they ALWAYS responded positively. Just the human touch is comfort! Really good doctors know that well. People are starved for human touch anyway because our sick culture is a "hands off" culture. Even children are not cared for by human touch the way they were fifty years ago. Today, parents dump them off at a "professional" day-care center where they get nothing but stress and constant control and "correction" to conform to artificial "rules" developed by busy administrators for their OWN benefit. Any "touching" of the children, can be construed as "sexual" thanks to the HAOWWWLY Roman Catholic Priests who so easily duped people for so long. Don't you dare lay hands on that child lest you be arrested. Paranoia of touching has greatly increased since the exposure of the Pedophile Priests who for centuries were the supposed caregivers of children. Now, even a totally innocent Priest who was never involved in such abomination has trouble with "touching" children. My, how evil spreads and what incredible damage it can do to the mind and the fact of our interconnectivity with All That Is. Knowing that Yeshua taught reincarnation, I prayed, meditated and contemplated this belief which is totally outside the culture in which I was And the following is how I view it and what it means to our present life. Of our five senses, the sense of touch is the most basic. It is a Universal sense that connects you to the entire Universe through your individual energy field. All your other senses proceed from the sense of touch in their specializations. Even our sense of INTUITION is at root TOUCH because, again, intuition is a sensory energetic phenomena. Touch is the first sense we experience in the womb and the last sense we are cognitively aware of as we die. It is the sense that we have after death but is no longer specialized into separate components and no longer filtered through a mental process, since the brain is no more. It is an at-one-ment with the comfort of belonging. But then the soul starts to recollect the memory of its recent experiences and reviews them in the light of the All One. And the future experience is developed according to the souls needed lessons to become fully cognizant of the All One continually.--so, a new physical material hologram is created in linear time for the individual soul to move through those experiences So there is a magnetic attraction to those exact "lessons" and a new physical incarnation begins. That is the evolutionary growth process that all human beings on planet earth are involved in. The world we see around us and assume is "reality" is a projected hologram. To each one of us it is slightly or greatly different. It is a play of energy created by our souls individual need and focused intention to merge with the All One. In this sense we are all parallel Universes which sometimes overlap but more often remain completely separate throughout our entire lifetime. We only hear about other concepts, places and lives from afar but only interact with a tiny tiny portion of them within the realm of our own life experience which is the perfect life experience for our individual growth. We are all on our own individual holodec and what we see and experience is a holographic projection customized to our individual need. Yes, many of those are similar but no two are exactly the same. The number of such projected holographic "worlds" is infinite and not all of them are like this one. It depends upon where we are in our souls overcoming and becoming. Right now, we can envision a world free of the present dysfunctions and so we are already beginning to project our new experience. When we focus on peace on earth and good will toward men, that's the hologram we project. When enough people focus on that transformation takes place even before physical death. If physical death occurs before that our present vision will be realized in our next incarnation. We are always born into the exact environemt we ourselves created by our projected though-forms during a lifetime. If we dwell on negativity, that's what we get. If we dwell on an uplifted civilization, that's what we get. It is all up to us and how much we recognize our own responsiblity for our own situation whatever it is. And... personal responsibility is another item that the ianity removed from the gospel of Jesus Christ. Why? Because they wanted people totally subservient and dependent upon them and them only. A very Roman mind-set. That is a Control Paradigm. However, we can just say "no" and create something else which will manifest either in this life or the next. We get whatever we call upon from the core depths of our heart. Anyone who calls upon the Name of the Lord will be "saved." Saved from what? Saved from self-inflicted suffering. Save to what? Their "VISION." And without a "vision" the people run wild (perish.) In this way we slowly begin to take responsibility for our own incarnations until we can finally choose either to merge with the All One or come back to help our fellow struggling beings do likewise. And that is what Jesus did and what the Buddhists call a Bodhisatva. And that is the genuine unconditional Love of God fully manifested and fully touchable. The Christ. namaste

What did the disciples long ago have that you don't? A very different life-style and understanding of what such healing is. You don't believe in it because you have never witnessed or been involved in it. Seeing is believing, as they say. You, and all of us, only have our individual experiences to go by and distant reports of such things. I think the term "heal people by their faith" is completely misunderstood and the present concept is gotten off of Christian tee vee. Yet, I and many others have both been involved in and witnessed healings take place that most would call "miraculous." It takes life-energy to repair phsycial cell damage. And genuine spiritual healing is energetic healing. Yes, faith is one of the main elements but the energetic aspects of it must not be ignored as most do when they talk about "faith healing." They assume it is super-natural. It is not. It is not beyond the energetic level in any way. And bodily energy is entirely of the natural Great Creation of which you are a fragment. Where does such energy come from? It is already all around you all the time in the Universal Intelligent Energy Field. It takes only a proper psycho-pysiological state to tap into it and vector it through your intention. A persons religion has absolutely nothing to do with that. Qi-Gong is a method of energetic healing that is even scientifically proven to work. The Qi-Gong healer energizes his own body from the Universal Energy Field and then transfers it to the patient by the laying on of hands. It is the same way the "laying on of hands" operates in the Christian Religion Religion has nothing whatsoever to do with it. As I said before, I have had a few of those experiences and seen others healed. Instantly? No... not except in one case but yes very rapidly. The bodily cells repair themselves properly back to their normal state when laying on of hands is done without expectation or doubt. The most spectacular such healing occurred when I was praying for a girl who was in the ER when she had tried to commit suicide by drinking drano. Somehow, I came into the proper psycho-physiological state, leaped out of my body and went down inside her body and addressed the damaged cells directly demanding that they "obey the Word of God" after reading Isaiah aloud to the dying girl who was a "Christian", in spite of the fact that she had tried to end her own life---she had good rason, by the way, having been sexually abused by her own brother since she was a child. That tends to make a person very depressed indeed and is not something many wish to talk about or confide in another person about. They live in fear and depression. For one thing, they fear the offender because he might murder them----which in this girls case did happened to her a few months after this healing incident. The next morning she was sitting up in bed and SMILING AND TALKING AND EVEN ABLE TO EAT AND DRINK and the doctors declared that a "miracle" had taken place because she was fully expected to die. The doctors had no idea that I and my wife had prayed for her and we only told them that we had "prayed," and nothing more about the incident. At the time that happened I had NO IDEA about energetic healing whatsoever. My ideas about "faith healing" were pretty much in line with what the ianity had always told me---a "supernatural" occurrance after petitioning God. However, years later, I began to discover how this actually works and I discovered through the incredible work of biologist Dr. Bruce Lipton a thing called "cell talk." I have used this technique many times since then to heal both myself and others at various times. Never in any kind of public "prayer-line." However, inducing that proper psycho-physiological state to allow this to happen is very rare when a person is not practicing lots of fasting, continual meditation and prayer and eating a diet which does not include meat. Meat digesting will block the energy flow and requires other elements to compensate for it such as very intense and fervent emotion and intention and even an exteriorization as occurred to me when the suicidal girl was healed--I was not a vegetarian at the time. When I started praying for her, I had no idea whatsoever about popping out of my body and addressing her bodily cells directly. Never heard of such a thing. It was a complete surprise to me. It just happened spontaneously because of the psycho-physiological state I had unknowingly come into. How, exactly, I had no idea but here in 2010 I know a little better how that happens and why. Does this happen to me on demand? Certainly not. However, once you have such an experience you know beyond the shadow of a doubt why Jesus said, "ye shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover." Yep. And, Jesus was very correct in that statement. Pete, you doubt it simply because you have not experienced it directly and there certiainly is no "lack of faith" in that, only lack of life experience. You were told this was suppose to be a "supernatural" event but it is not. It is an energetic event which becomes ALLOWED because of the healers faith and the faith of the one being healed as well. However, a lack of faith in either one does not stop it from happening when the conditions are right. I have seen plenty of ianty fakers BLAME a person for NOT being healing when they arrogantly commanded God that it should happen. Of course, it was never their own "lack of faith" but the other person needing healing that "lacked faith." What an abomination. What a phoney circus of sick entertainment! Oral Roberts attempted all sorts of things to make healings happen to the many people who sought after him for it. They sought after him because indeed he did have a gift. He certainly believed it because he had both experienced it happening to himself and also to others that he prayed for----but---he could never tell when it was going to happen and when it wasn't, which was most of the time. He stated that sometimes it would happen spontaneously but often didn't.... but he had little control over WHEN it would happen because, like me, he had no idea of the mechanism as to why it would happen one time and another time would not. It was certaianly not because some God in the sky WITHHELD healing from one person and granted it to the next as the ianty often believes. Almighty God withholds NOTHING.... EVER. If we do not receive it there is some other reason and that doesn't mean it is OUR fault either. I am amazed at how much BLAME comes from the same ones that spout "judge not lest ye be judged." It is disgusting. Oral even hired some people to come in on crutches and in wheelchairs and with all sorts of fake maladies to appear to be "healed: on cue (theater) thinking it would induce faith in the audience to make their healings happen. And guess what? As phoney as that was..... it sometimes did happen in spite of the fakery to induce faith. Oral knew that there must be some mechanism involved in order for it to happen and he was trying to induce it some way---not for selfish purposes or profit. He paid one guy $500 to arrive in a wheelchair and be "healed." In order to become a real healer, one who has a ministry of genuine energetic healing, one must do as Yeshua did. That is, fast.... pray.... meditate.... eat only vegetables... be celibate and keep themselves pure from the world';s pollution, including the world's thought pollution. The purer you are the more likely that you will be able to get in the proper psycho-physiological state to allow energetic healing to occur. And by the way.... although the Qi-Gong healers are not "Christian" this is exactly the life-style they too live in order to have a healing ministry. So, it has absolutely nothing to do with religion and when you do finally actually experience energetic healing you no longer have a problem with believing it and having faith in the Source from whence you came. And, if you do not want to live such a life-style you can still enjoy your own healing and the occasional healing of others by simply talking the proper way to your bodily cells daily. Such an interface helps you to learn how this life energy is received into your body in the amounts necessary for it to be transferred to another or to your own bodily cells for healing. namaste

This is a wonderful post Rainbow. Thank you. You communicated very well here and I thoroughly agree. Both Jim Jones and Daivd Koresh, by the way, were CIA mind-control experiments. The CIA was trying to find out how to manipulate people's belief systems---at the expense of other human beings, just like the ones who originally manipulated the Bible. I have done research on both Jim Jones and David Koresh. They were highly manipulated. Mind-control is what draconian governments want. Cuts down on civil unrest when folks are being herded into a cage. They experiment with individuals to see how they can eventually manipulate whole populations for their control agendas. But.... it only works when a person does not raise question to the manufactured "authority figure." Thus, cultic behavior is created. "Follow me... kill yourself." Our Military/Industrial Complex would like to produce Manchurian Candidate type killers that will kill on demand with a phone call that puts them into a dissociated personality. So, they experimented with something called Monarch Mind-Control. This is TRAUMA based mind-control that tortures folks in order to cause them to "dissociate." That produces separated personalites which may not even know that each other exist. So, they don't even remember what they did afterwards. The theory is that political assasins cannot blow the whistle because their alternate personality did the killing and they don't even remember it. Sirhan Sirhan, who murdered Robert Kennedy, was one of those and many others were also. The CIA has been up many times before Congressional Investigation Committees for their nefarious activities in mind-control experimentation, and of course, nothing ever happens because our Congress cannot go up against the powerful Military/Industrial/Congressional/Economic Complex that President Eisenhower, in his last speech to the nation, warned us about so long ago---which was, of course, totally ignored. Usually the CIA before these investigation committees promises to "never do it again"----and so business as usual continues unabated. The "slap on the wrist" doesn't slow them down one bit. And, of course, the Congressional Investigation Committee is fully controlled by the same powers-that-be ordering the mind-control experiments and their implementations in the first place. The "investigations" only occur because there are leaks that this is happening and they wish to appear as if they object and wish to stop it. hahahah. The Nazi CIA experimenters have a mind-control devise that can project a voice right into your head making you think Almighty God is talking to you and that's what they used both on Jim Jones and also David Koresh. Those two already had huge egos wanting to have followers under their control, so the mind-control programming simply used and enhanced their own egotistical tendancies, to see how far they could be stretched. Pretty far, I'd say. Their followers were exactly like the followers of all control based religions. Blind obedience. One of those earlier Nazi CIA experimenters was Dr. Euwin Cameron who did mind-control experiments on his unwitting "mental" patients. And, get this, Dr. Euwin Cameron was once the HEAD of the American Psychiactric Association. Another Nazi, Dr. Jose Delgado. He did experiments in mind-control by putting implants into his patients without their knowledge. He once demonstrated his ability to electronically control another being in his famous experiment with a wild bull. He put an implant in the wild bulls brain and whenever the bull started to charge he would change the bulls mind by remote control. Frightening to some folks indeed. But, of course, our wonderul government would never allow such a thing... would they? However, all forms of mind-control only work with a persons abdication over to some "authority figure" allowing their hypnogogic techniques, whether it is electronic or simple persuasion, or truama based personality splitting, to take hold. Mind-control today NEEDS NO IMPLANT but can be done with induced scalar waves. Invisible Warfare. You not only never know what hit you but never had the slightest clue it was coming. Militarist LOVE that. America has already come under attack by this more than any other nation on earth. And it was all done by our OWN CIA in alignment with all the other three letter intelligence agencies serving those Oligarchs who wish to have a world-wide totalitarian system. This, of course is connected with our criminal financial system, so Financial Reform and doing completely away with those robbing us through debt, is a first step in getting out from under this bondage. We know how to accomplish that but our government is fully controlled as others are now slowly discovering as their money is stolen from them in broad daylight and disappears without accountability---never to be seen again. Pooof.'' David Rockefeller said, "we have always wanted a world government but had to keep it secret until all the factors were in place. However, now all those factors are in place and we will no longer have to maintain the secrecy." And that is almost a perfect direct quote. Of course, that was a private interview with David Rockefeller and never never ever reported on CNN, FOX, NBC, CBS, ABC, PBC etc because guess who owns them? There are actually some despots in this world who would like to see whole populations zombified into obedience. In fact.... uh.... take a good look around you. People are already so used to blindly abdicating their wills over to supposed "authority figures," whether they be religious authority figures or political ones, that it makes the job of totalitarian mind-control very easy. The somnabulized population does most of the work for them. As long as they have a pay-check, a ballgame and a beer, all is well. In Korea the Chinese used mind-control on our captured soldiers and all the intelligence agencies are very much into using it ever since. Why? Because is it very effective. Invisible Warfare. Why should the Chinese and the Russian have an exclusive franchise on it? And, of course, that is why the outward events taking place in our dysfunctional civlization often seem so utterly insane. They are. This is presently a Prison Planet... but that is about to end forever as every secret is loudly shouted from every rooftop and a very great awakening occurs. And it already is. But, it is not instant but little by little. So, there is no reason to fear or despair. Just question whatever comes out of your Nazi government and be aware. The spiritual decendants of Dr. Mengele, and their stooges and dupes, can only exist in total darkness. Once the light is shined upon them---- game over. They can only be successful as long as they remain in secret---like the Wizard of Oz, who is actually a little weak and insecure man behind a curtain pulling the levers on a huge Mechanical Boogyman to produce manipulating fear via theater. This whole mind-control, which is a viral thought-meme, contains within itself the seeds of its own suicidal destruction because it is totally contrary to Almighty God and the way the Great Creation works. In their greed and arrogance, the manipulating controllers have only deceived themselves while thinking they would be able to deceive the whole world. Nope. At this point in linear time America is the most deceived nation on earth because she is the only thing standing in the way of this tyranny. So, the agenda is to bring down America totally. But her people need to wake up to what is and has been going on for a long time. The CIA created "super-soldiers" which through mind-control were trained to kill but some of them are now blowing the whistle, having been so abused and used. Few know about this because they didn't hear it on CNN. And, there are many others who stick their heads in the sand not wanting to know because it is just too frightening to them. However, it must be faced head on and dealt with. The light is always better than the darkness, even if it shines on some things that are not too pleasant. <==and this, of course, is exactly parallel to all we have been discussing on this thread. All these things are totally interconnected. Yes indeed they are. Duncan O'Finian namaste

Have any children? Ever play music? Ever invent something? Ever write a peom? Ever start a business? So, if you don't recall creating anything you may be in the first stages of Alzheimers. It might be a good idea to see your phycisian right away. We will have that disease licked soon and there are already new methods of restoring your memory. I will pray for you. By not understanding the Law of Cause and Effect and thinking there are no consequences for their actions. Ignorance. But, as the Bible clearly tells you "ignorance is NO excuse." Yes. However, if they continue crucifying people, do not repent, do not make amends, then they learned nothing from the "mercy" and will have some severe consequences. Mercy does not aleviate one from the responsibility to repent and amend their ways, it only mitigates a bad situation giving you space to repent and make amends. Not for your individual sins. Your individual sins cannot be done away with by the blood of man or beast. You must repent and make amends. You must forgive others. The blood of Jesus does not lift that requirement as today's ianity insists. The consequences are not burning in eternal fire forever. The consequences are the rebounding effect of the Universal Law of Cause and Effect. And it is equitable not unjust draconianism. "As you sow so shall you reap." Your view of hell-fire came directly from Rome not God. And yes, your Greek scriptures were highly manipulated in that respect. There IS a hell. People are ALREADY there. It is the consequence of their own thinking. There IS a heaven. People are already there. It is the consequence of their own thinking. YOU choose either way. And this is the true meaning of heaven and hell in the OT and in the New. You see, brother Dan, WE are responsible for what we create. Every action you preform is a creation. This is a basic teaching of Jesus that your "Holy" Roman Fathers obfuscated in their didactions, redactions and editings. Why? Because they only wanted you dependent upon THEM and their Hierarchy of control. Totalitarian control. Control over your body, mind and soul. Anti-Christ. Still here today. The United States of America is the Roman Empire and its outcome will be the same as the Roman Empire and for the same reason. All this fraudulent religiousity is Babylon and it will burn right along with the criminal banking system, the Military/Industirial Complex and the Politicians who serve only their $$$ masters. You cannot serve God and Mammon. The Bible that you wrongly say I "dismiss" happens to be very clear about that. And yes, that is in the original gospel. Those Roman Fathers and all those who bought their poisonous good are in Babylon and don't know it Come out my people, says the Lord. But it is not easy because people have been inculcated with a false gospel for so many thousands of years. The Bible calls that "the vain traditions of the fathers." Exactly. Right on. No I do not "dismiss" that but many do. In fact, many dismiss the Bible thinking it is "inerrant." How absurd to think any document written by the hand of man is "inerrant. NONE is inerrant. That's why you have the inner Spirit and the Law of Almighty God written upon your heart. So, you can either seek with all your heart, mind and soul and find Christ within you, or you can accept what the faulty merchandise that the manipulators sold by means of threats, violence, book burnings, pogroms, inquisitions, editings, false interpretations and all manner of power trips. It is and always will be YOUR choice. You and only you are responsible for your own actions (creations.) As I clearly told you before and will say once again hoping you get it, of course, Almighty God protects His/Her OWN WORD. And that's why the Roman Fathers in their criminality only partially succeeded in capturing the minds, souls and bodies of the ones who allowed themselves to be duped by simply accepting whatever they were told by those sself-styled "authority figures" who threatened them. Authority that DEMANDS respect is false authority. Authority is ALWAYS to be questioned. ALWAYS. Even Almighty God makes no such "demands." Almighty God is NOT like the Roman Emporer as your "Holy" Fathers assumed thinking that Rome was the seed of the Kingdom of God on the earth. Almighty God WANTS you to question and not just accept something because some man-made authority figure told you so. Authority is no authority that demands respect. And that is even true of Almighty God who does not demand anything but only IS. PURE BEING. I AM THAT I AM. ALL BEING. Almigty God is NOT a God of force as is falsely advertised. God is a God of power to love and transform. If you think Almighty God is dangling you over a pit of eternal fire, you are brain-washed by the hands of evil men. If you perish it is YOUR CHOICE. God does not wish ANY man to perish. Oh yes, that is in that book that you so lightly say I "dismiss." And Almighty God, unlike several men in recent history does not delight in torture, murder and deception as your "Holy" Roman Fathers did with glee. Look up what the word "holy" means. It means WHOLE which is exactly what Jesus prayed for in John 17, the most "gnostic" and misunderstood chapter in the entire Bible. When it comes right down to it, brother Dan, you and I choose who will we serve. Either Almighty God---or our own ego-personality with all its perishing baggage. And if we cling to that baggage in spite of so many opportunities to let go and let God, we will burn with it. But not in eternal hell-fire but in the bon fire we ourselves lit in our ignorance. But even that burning is not the eternal end, only a necessity to repeat kindergarten. The entire Universe is cyclic. True spiritual authority does NOT demand respect.... but earns it through its own doings. That is the only true "authority." Now... I know you agree with much I have said here. However, as long as you interpret it through the lens of the Roman Fathers that brain-washed so many millions of folks for thousands of years, you will miss it. Not only I. Historically it is proven and I suggest you inform yourself. That is entirely up to you. Put "deceptions of the early church fathers" into your browser. Get both the "pros" and the "cons" and then come to your own conclusion. But don't stop seeking there. READ the earliest manuscripts before Rome did their manipulations! See what they changed and why. It is clear what they changed and what they did not change. Yes, I do too, in spite of all that the Roman Hierarchy tried to achieve. They were not able to burn all the original writings. But they tried. They wanted to cover-up their manipulations. They even ADMITTED it in their OWN WRITINGS (better find out) that they used "deception" as a MEDICINE and that they invented a history that was in the interest of the Roman religion that they invented. IN THEIR OWN WRITINGS. Get that? But, the history of the Church's bloody inquisitions and burning of people at the stake for having different ideas should tell you right away that they were as far from Jesus Christ as one can get. And they were the ones who gave you your Bible of today. Duhhh? I have studied that text, enjoyed it, prayed it, meditated on it, danced it, sang it and rejoiced in it for many many years. Every post I write is full of that book. It is my life and breath. But in all this focus I found out that it was in no way inerrant and that no religious text on earth is inerrant. Yeshua himself said so. It is very unfair for you to say I "dismiss" the texts that you hold sacred. I know what they are and some of them are the Roman deception. What I dismiss are the manipulations of that text which happened several hundred years after the advent. Anyone who really desires to know the truth of that can inform themselves, however most folks would rather not because it might upset their belief system. It is not the Bible you hold sacred at all. If you did you would find out where it came from. No, it is not the Bible you hold sacred. It is your belief system. So, fine. God is not a man with a beard up in the sky. If you experience hell it is because YOU created it. If you experience heaven, the same. And God does not perform human sacrifices. The meaning of Christ's redeeming of the world on the cross is very clear from the original texts and that is one of the main manipulations of the Roman Fathers. They wanted a "religion" that the Pagans could understand. Human sacrifice is one of those items. But the reality is---you still have to repent and make amendments for your sins. I explained that a few posts back. In closing I ask this question. Why would Almighty God allow this deception? The answer is quite simple: so that you and I would seek with all our hearts. minds and souls and not settle for the doctrines and dogmas of men. Without the Great Deception we would never focus our entire being to know the Truth that sets men free. It is the chrysalis that produces the butterfly. Absolutely necessary for transformation. So, thank you Holy Roman Fathers for your lies and deceptions which you called in your own writings a "medicine." Indeed it was. hmmm.... it was all in God's Holy Intention anyway. Now that's really earning my deepest respect for Almighty God. What man could ever think of such an ingenious plan? namaste

Yes. The Gospel of The Holy Twleve And here is a whole collection of many ancient texts. The Nazarene Way namaste

Pete, thank you for posting this. This is simply what Yeshua lived and taught before the "corrector" got hold of it. Of course, it is not status-quo-ianity and so some will disdain it and even "rail" at it calling it "liberal." But... so what? It has been said anyway. Everyone can choose to take it or leave it. Matthew Fox demonstrates his own surpassing poetical joy in mentioning these items which actually are fully in accordance with the original Aramaic writing, whether he is aware of it or not. Some dear folks are so programmed by Rome that they do not even realize it. They haven't a clue.... yet. However, not everyone is programmed by Rome. I have no idea if Matthew Fox knows about the original writings. I will have to find out more about him. If he does not, it only goes to show that the Spirit is speaking right here among us. Yes indeed. If he does, at least he is not "quoting" it but has taken it within and processed it in a most creative way. The items he is pointing out here are the exact items I have been talking about in my posts. This inspiring writing of Matthew Fox is most excellent Pete. Not only to I just "agree" with it but it is my inner revelation and also the inner revelation of many many others who, like Matthew Fox, have seriously done some intense seeking. Some dear folks simply cannot get beyond Roman doctines and dogmas and become an outlet for the Living Christ. That highly virulent programming is really entrenched. I still have to say that this is in no way a "liberal/conservative" issue at all. It is a "freedom/slavery" issue. And doctrines and dogmas do not set anyone free but drive them deeper and deeper into complete bondage. Very sad, but we are always responsible for our own choices despite all the false advertising to the contrary. Well, I have said too many words here and will now put my focus elsewhere. Like this wonderful writing of Matthew Fox, few have understood a word I have said and that's entirely to be expected whenever we step outside the prison of the massive Control Paradigm now governing our entire world---a prison whose bars are complete mental hallucinations held in place by a manufactured viral thought-meme begun long ago. When we finally get down to the root of this slavery, we will simply shift our thinking and see that there was no steel box to begin with--except the one of our own making through abdication of our God-given free will over to tyrants who did not have our best interest nor Christ's gift in mind at all. Even those who may have an inkling that something is amiss with the ianity still do not realize how virulent and serious this disease really is. However, healing is always available to all who call upon the name of the Lord and do more than just mouth the words. It is a heart matter---just the opposite of the manufactured doctrines and dogmas. Thank you again for this thread and for all your sharing and everyone else's wonderful sharing also. Peace be upon the earth and among all beings. namaste

It is true God is our Creator Source. However, we are co-creators and have something called free-will. WE are the ones that choose either to pay attention to our All-Parent or not. Our most ancient ancestors (long before the Bible existed) struggled with the concept of "destiny" and "fate." They distinguised between these two. "Fate" is what WE determine by our choices. "Destiny" is that which is to be regardless of the choices we make. And.... it is often difficult for us to tell the difference between those two ahead of time. So in todays dumbed down social consensus reality, most folks have no idea of any difference between "fate" and "destiny" and use the two words interchangably. Just as they do "faith" and "belief." However, there IS a distinction. That is "rightly" dividing God's word of Truth. It doesn't mean a separation but it means dispelling our own ignorance by rightly dividing in order that our cognitive minds can properly interpret what our Spirit already fully knows. Yes I know there are those that believe in total "pre-destination." And claim to believe that because "the Bible tells me so." However, the Bible is very clear about your personal responsibility and the choices you make. So, the point I am making is that, yes indeed, we should make a distinction between Destiny and Fate and realize just as the Bible says, "ignorance is NO excuse." We need to quit making excuses and take up our personal responsibility to dispell our OWN ignorance. When we do that, sin will dissolve, not because some father-figure in the sky is holding threats of torture over us. There IS no such "God" at all. We must dispell our own ignorace because, having overcome that darkness , we become very clear about God's Law of Cause and Effect which is the way the entire Universe operates----always has and always will. I think to "properly divide the word of Truth" means to not generalize but make distinctions such as between Destiny and Fate but also between "ignorance" and "sin." We just had this discussion did we not? Ignorance is our problem. Take care of ignorance and sin follows suit. Otherwise our correcting of our own sin (GK hamartia=to miss the mark=a MISTAKE) is nothing more than an outward "reform"----a monkey see monkey do religion because, although we "reform" we do not "transform" which requires revelation and overcoming of our own ignorance so that we can become LIKE Jesus---his words not mine. And that is what Buddhism gave to those who follow Christ. Ignoring this is exactly why the ianity is so "messed up" today as Fawzo so eloquently put it. Ignorance is what leads to disobdience. And that is true even if we consciously go against God and mentally KNOW we are violating Universal principles and ignorantly assume we can get away with it. This is indication that we have no idea what the Law of Cause and Effect IS. This is ignorance indeed. Once we understand the purpose and beauty of how this vast Creation operates we fall down upon our knees full of humility and awe. We do not OUTWARDLY follow anything but are inwardly enlightened and only want to become pure outlets of the Christ within. You seem to be saying that just because they were "ignorant" they weren't responsible for crucifying and mocking the Christ. Nonsense. We are always responsible for our own actions even done in ignorance. Our main reponsibility is to overcome our own ignorance. The idea that our sins crucified Jesus is absurd. If you had been there or I had been there we would not have grabbed him and put him on the cross. No, Mary and John were NOT responsible for the crucifixion and neither were we. Neither are we responsible for Sirhan Sirhan killing Robert Kennedy and to take such guilt upon ourselves is utterly ignorant. The Crucifixion of Jesus was our planetary destiny because of the overall environment that is best described as the "sin against love." This was, and is, our collective consciousness apart from our individual "sins." Jesus and the believers did NOT contribute to the environment of the "sin against love." The disciples sinned individually and were often ignorant but, again, the "sin against love" needs to be distinguished from our daily mistakes. We do need to rightly divide the Word of Truth. Oh, I have heard the emotional wailings about how our "sins put Jesus on the cross because we are rotten sinners mia culpa mia culpa." Utter nonsense. More useless Christian guilt to keep you from seeking the Truth that sets me free. More useless bondage and entanglement with illusory religious baggage. Not as that personality. Jesus was a man born 2000 years ago. Here again a distinction must be made between "Jesus" and "Christ." Jesus was the name of a particular personality. "Christ" is a basic principle of Almighty God's expression. Almighty God is invisible, unknowable, untouchable and unapproachable. "Christ" is the visible, knowable, touchable and very visible, approachable manifestation and expression of Almighty God the invisible. Jesus was a clear, pure OUTLET and anyone else can be likewise even if not the pure outlet that Jesus was. "Jesus" was one incarnation. "Christ" is the potential of ALL incarnations including you and me. You are right that Christ always existed, even before the foundation of the world. "Before Abraham was, I AM." Interesting that Jesus used the eternal "name" of Almighty God here. (Exodus 3) I AM. He didn't say "I was." If he had said "I was" he would have been talking about his human ego-personality not the eternal Christ within us. Thus, he makes a distinction that the ianity does not make between himself ("Jesus") and "Christ" our First Source manifested. Of course the two are in no way separate and neither are we separate from the Christ, but we are not the personality "Jesus" who was ONE incarnation. We are different personalities. We only need become consciously AWARE of WHO and WHAT we actually ARE beyond those different personalities. In other words, the ONE and ONLY TRUE SELF of ALL THAT IS. That is the meaning of "Self-Realization." You and I are two more incarnations able to learn, experience and express the eternal Christ through the work of Immanuel (God WITHIN us) and the LIVING EXAMPLE of the son-of-man, Jesus. Christ always has been, but Jesus (one incarnation) revealed the Christ and made it known to us as never before. We became more consciously AWARE of the Christ, although it manifested many times throughout history in many personalites who were less pure OUTLETS than the man Jesus. And Jesus Christ was the Revelation of the invisible ONE ALMIGHTY GOD. God manifested right in front of us and entirely "touchable" by our hands. But Jesus was not the sole expression of the Christ. No. And there have been many expressions of the Christ throughout history through many other "personalities." Jesus was only one personality. St. Francis was another for example. This expression of the Christ through many personalities are the "many seeds". "NOW are WE the sons-of God...." Yep. The differences between us are simply our differing life experiences and our differing interpretations of those experiences. ALL personalities have different life experiences and that's not only "good" but absolutely WONDERFUL because it broadens all cognitive concepts of what the eternal CHRIST is. The CHRIST cannot be contained in one personality, even Jesus. That's why Jesus was the FIRST of MANY BRETHERN. That wonderful expression of the invisible God (Christ) is not confined to a single personality despite so much false advertising to the contrary by the Roman religious control paradigm that invented the "ianity." And that is exactly why many of our Jewish brethren call the religion of Christianity IDOLATRY. Islam does likwise. Both are very polite about it usually but when you recognize that God is ONE, it makes the Roman manufactured doctrine of the "Trinity" seem rather idolatrous. And especially when you have a so-called "Holy Ghost" flitting here and there coming and going like a confused fairy. And especially when a religion puts a bloody idol up on a stand and falls down to worship it. So, can you see WHY the ianity does not set well with some people? It is because a single pop star was elevated up on a pedestal and "WORSHIPPED." And we know exactly how that came about and why. It is the story of today's ianity which ignores the Christ and focuses on a personality instead. An invented personlaity that relieves you of personal responsibility because he already "paid" for all your sins with his blood ( a human sacrifice) and does not hold you responsible for your ignorance. A pure artificial invention. A mind-control program. His work on the cross was not to alleviate the consequences of your "sins" but to redeem the entire world from the "sin against love." Again, that is not the same thing as shedding his blood for your individual daily sins. YOU are responsible to deal with the consequences of those by repentance and taking a different direction. And also by forgiving your fellow men. Otherwise, Jesus blood on the corss avails nothing and never was intended to anyway because the "sin against love" is not your individual sins but the whole environment of the entire planetary paradigm and he "redeemed it" that is, he made the way for a consciousness of unconditional love to blossom forth. That's really as clear as I know how to put it. Sorry. There are no "excuses." Even Mother Nature constantly reflects the Truth of God. The reason many Christians are always looking for excuses is because they tremble in terror that a totally UNREAL and NONEXISTANT Jealous God of Wrath up in the sky somewhere will torture them forever and ever for making a mistake. BRAIN--WASHING by the hand of the Roman ianity. Yes, mind-control is VERY effective. However, it is our responsibilty to overcome it. And it is easily overcome actually---simply by overcoming our own ignorance. Brain-washing doesn't work unless we willingly abdicate our God given free choice over to a fast talking saleman who threatens you with eternal torture unless you buy the faulty product. That's what many have done. They willingly abdicated their free choice over to the Roman Control Paradigm and became mind-slaves to error. You are talking about "God" here as if God was a separate entity up in the sky dispensing blessings or curses. This is not even the Biblical view of "God." Not even the Romanized version of the biblical view of God. You and I are accountable for our own ignorance. It is up to us to seek with all our heart, mind and soul to find and bring forth and manifest the Kingdom of God which already exists inside. That is our personal responsibility, not just to correct our bad behavior. If you are referring to Paul's sermon on Mars hill when you say "God winks" I suggest you read it again in context. According to whose interpretation of what it says? The way you are defining "God" and "Christ" shows clear evidence of Roman brain-washing. No, I am not criticizing you for that because each and every one of us has been under the SAME brain-washing all our lives. But, this is what overcoming and becoming is all about. The time has come to quit making excuses and take up our personal responsibility---and that is the message of Yeshua. In order to do that we must come COMPLETELY OUT of Babylon. That's what the genuine "Church" IS and Bablyon is what the Great Whore Church IS. You and I are called OUT. And certainly the ianity is a large part of what we are called OUT OF. Just as we are called out of sin. We are also called out of ignorance. Ignorance of our past. And most especially ignorance of WHO and WHAT WE ARE. This is not that shallow, brother. The Bible is many fathoms deep. Do not read it like a New York Times. If you do, you entirely miss everything. Reading the Bible at "face value" means you cannot see the heart of the matter. Christ is not a shallow matter. Christ is a HEART matter. Its depth is infinite. But not blindly accepting the falsely so-called "teachings of Jesus" given to you by the Roman control paradigm. Come out of Babylon. It is the Great Whore that sits on many waters. It buys and sells the souls of men. It produces human suffering, war, terror, threats, lies, deceptions, greed etc. And it does it all in the name of "Jesus Christ" in order to deceive. What an insult to Almighty God and Jesus Christ! The genuine teachings of Jesus are far more than a highly edited New York Times article. Really. A part of our "transgression" is our willing ignorance and abdication of our free will over to the vain traditions of the fathers. Yes. But... not just who someone "says" he "was" but who He IS right now beyond the doctrines and dogmas invented by the vain traditions of the fathers and passed down generation after generation to compound ignorance and darkness. It already "dwells within you" whether you accept it or not. It is your responsibility and my responsibility to become AWARE of that indwelling Christ and become clear OUTLETS for that light to shine. Look... if Christ is the light that lights every man that comes into the world. Doesn't that tell you that Christ is MORE than a spiritual item. It includes your wonderful biology. Accepting what? The Roman Bible? Is that the "it" you refer to or do you mean the reality of the Christ? I think you tend see those two as one and the same and are still somewhat unable to make the distinction. However, in my view, they are polar opposites. One clearly represents fear, threats, war, confusion and violence and the other represents peace on earth and goodwill toward men. I choose the later and I'm sure you do too. So, I suggest you look a little further into it. Just do as Jesus suggested and don't STOP seeking because if any of us do and become self-satisfied smugly thinking we have "arrived", we become petrified and frozen and slaves to the control paradigm that does not have Christ's interest at heart in any way whatsoever. Just like there is a distinction to be made in order to rightly divide the Word of Truth between "fate" and "destiny" between "Jesus" and "Christ" between "faith" and "belief" between "predestination" and "free will" between our sins and our ignorance---we must also rightly divide the Word of Truth by making a distinction between "outward" and "inward." Yes, my brother there is only ONE THING which is OUR SOURCE, however, in this Great Creation of duality, rightly dividing the Word of Truth is necessary as Paul so well pointed out. To do that, we must seek with ALL (not part) of our mind, heart and soul. This means to prove all things instead of blindly accepting something simply because it was handed down to us by tradition---especially when it is fully exposed as being completely fraudulent and historically proven to represent an agenda of control over the minds, bodies and souls of men and uses violence and threats to do so. It should be obvious---but of course viral mental programming is an extremely strong prison indeed. And we have ALL been in that prison. ALL without exception because we were BORN INTO IT on a Prison Planet where religion is used to keep the inmates well under control. It has been highly successful but not completely so. It's limitations become more exposed every single day. And now, the time has come for it to end forever. May all our ignorance and suffering be dispelled and replaced by peace on earth and goodwill toward men---- and may our seeking be thorough and complete as Jesus Christ so desired. namaste One more thing. The fact that Jesus was slain "before the foundation of the world" does not mean anything more than the fact that as soon as ignorance was there, the alleviation of that ignorance was sure destiny because the evolution of consciousness and all LIFE is a basic principle of the entire Universe, just as is the Law of Cause and Effect. The "effect" of the actional "cause" of ignorance is the release of Christ's manifestation which cannot be murdered by an instrument of torture. You must realize that the historical event of Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection (whatever you judge that to be) was a turning point that is completely outside of linear "time" altogether and the ignorance of man demanded it because the destiny of our world is the coming Kingdom of God and that is not fate which our free will effects. The Kingdom of Almighty God ON THE EARTH is our planetary destiny. Of course, the control paradigm has brain-washed many to embrace a phoney la la heaven of eternal perfection and bliss that cannot even be found in the Bible. When this transformation fully manifests, it will NOT be heavenly perfection but only the very beginning of moving toward perfection. Only Almighty God is perfection and there is no other "perfection." Our present biology is not even able to contain such perfection even in its most "glorified" state as seen in the son-of-man after his "resurrection." We have millions if not billions of years in linear time before we reach even the edge of such ultimate perfection. And when we do, instead of selfishly choosing our own heavenly bliss and perfection for ever and ever, we will come back because of our (Christ's) unconditional love to lift up all the other beings who are undergoing the same dysfunctions, fear, violence, doubt, confusion and suffering that we once experienced. This is true compassion. This is what the Mahayana Buddhists call a Bodhisatva--and Jesus was one of those. The most striking example of a Bodhisatva to ever grace our planet but there have been others. And that is what genuine unconditional love is all about. The transformational process we are undergoing is not unique and it is not unusual---but the very way LIFE develops throughout the entire Universe and all the infinite dimensions of time and space.

As usual Fawzo you are so right on. Brother, this quote you gave of Paul on Mars hill is absolutely tremendous. It clearly shows the realtionship between what we call "Christian" and the wisdom of the East. It shows this merging was indeed a part of original Christian understanding. This scripture clearly shows the Source of All=That= Is and it shows that our Source (Almighty God) is OMNIPRESENT as well as omnipotent and omnicient. That is, every place at every time past, present and future---and in all the multifarious dimensions of time and space seen and unseen. This goes along exactly with how I view this whole Christ "controversy" if I may call it that. It is no "controversy" to me but it surely is a constant squabbling among religionists of various flavors. I think many in the ianity completely forget this wonderful speaking of Paul as part of their Bible. Although it is unlike any speech anywhere in the Bible it is echoed throughout the entire Bible, Old Testament and New Testament, when one digs it out. Paul shows he is completely familiar with all that has gone before and is very clear about what it means. Where this silly ianity came from is clear. It came from Empirial Rome long after Paul, James, John and the rest. If the Christians want to know what the gathering of the called-out ones IS, (you know... the "church") they should take a look at all the writings outside the Bible about the first assembly in Jerusalem where James took the lead. There was NO hierarchy. None. It was a local gathering of the called-out ones, not an organization or a denomiation or an institution. They met in people's homes. James, like his brother Yeshua was a vegan, believed in reincarnation and had contact with the Northern Essenes also. James was likewise an energetic healer. Although the Jews after the crucifixtion didn't much like the Christians, due to the fact that many blamed them for the crucifixion, JAMES was always allowed in the temple because there was no doubt of his continual contact and interface with Almighty God within and the Jews knew and recognized that completely. He was considered a Holy man by Jews, Gentiles and Christians alike. It was those Northern Essenes of Mt. Carmel that many times hosted the Buddhist Monks because they were of like-mind with them. That tradition up on Mr. Carmel continues to this day as an almost unknown branch of the followers of Yeshua, totally overshadowed by the Roman ianity which, of course has became the "official" status quo world-wide. So, here is your quote of Paul's message on Mars hill. I couldn't help but make some comments in it. Please take them as satirical humor. Everyone should read and contemplate this message Paul gave on Mars hill and then ask themselves, " is this our present understanding of Christ-ianity? Most here at ULC will probably say, yes indeed it is, however in most denominational circles it is not. I am highlighting some of the words that really spark me. [it is late here and the further I go on, the more surrealistic I become... but.... I haven't had a drop I promise. (hmmm... maybe I should have.....)] This is the Ein Soph of the ancients--- the UNKNOWABLE. But this UNKNOWABLE becomes KNOWN through the annointed Christ who is the very visible physical outlet, the expression of the First Source. And, the CHRIST is not confined to Yeshua who was only the First of many brethren not the "ONLY" begotten Son but in the original Aramaic it says the "FIRST" begotten son. That is because he brought the awareness of the Christ Spirit and principle into the world's conscious awareness. It was already here, of course, but not recognized very well nor properly defined in the outlets that arrived on planet earth before Yeshua. Yeshua was the seed that fell into the earth and died bringing forth many many seeds (sons-of God.) "Now are we the Sons of God," says John, "but it does not yet appear what we SHALL BE...." this is our spiritual evolution (growth) to become..."for we shall be LIKE HIM (LIKE YESHUA)." And Yeshua himself tells us that "all that he does we will do ALSO and even MORE shall we do...." Today's ianity trys to express this by show biz fakery to rake in mountains of... cash. But every now and then.... someones faith over rides the circus. Oral Roberts once said that if he could inspire faith in folks they would be healed. So, that's why he paid folks to arrive in wheel chairs and jump up as if they had been healed. totally fake but.... every now an then..... so that's how Oral justified it in his own conscience. But i say... why not do as Yeshua suggested and heal others with a totally clear conscience? And, NO ONE, no matter who they are, should EVER charge ANYTHING WHATSOEVER to lay hands on the sick. NEVER. If they do, it is completely polluted and will eventually destroy such a practitioner. The same goes for meditation. Buddha knew that. No one should ever "pay" to learn meditation. EVER. And no one should ever "pay' for anyone to pray for them. That is really an abomination. In my opinion. I had a pastor once who continually defrauded his congregation by offering risky investments. "Now, this is an opportunity to triple your money in 90 days... but there is always a chance you might loose it all." Guess what? They ALWAYS lost it all----and could not complain too much because they had been duly warned----but the gambling lust made them go-for-broke and, like all gamblers, they accepted their losses due to their own risk taking. They never turned the pastor over to the vice-squad for fear of "embarassing" the church. hahahah. My pastor also happened to be my boss ( God help me) and I was always too broke to invest anything in his many schemes. I probably would have. He was an excellent salesman. One day I confronted him about this fraudulent activity. He said, "well, as a Christian moving out of this evil world we should do as the Jews did in Exodus and SPOIL EYGPT as we go." GURK. Oh, how many crooked agendas under the cover of the Holy Bible! No. He/She does not. However the Source of All That Is also inhabits the stones being their Source also... but they have trouble communicating to humans. But, the Truth is "Christ IN you the hope of glory." Not only in one man named Yeshua who lived 2000 years ago and has been made into a religious icon to be "worshipped" with men's hand and of course plenty of Mammon to grease the "outreach." Yes, Almighty God is our ONE SOURCE and there is no other SOURCE. Christ is that ONE SOURCE expressed making the invisible VISIBLE---and is fully ONE with the All-Parent forever. We are too. All the institutionalized separations of race, religion, culture, politics, tradition etc are completely ignorant of the fact that all human beings on planet earth are the SAME ONE family. In the near future, when the ongoing interface with ETs becomes well established we will be known as "Earthlings" only. The ianity says "worship," Paul and Yeshua say SEEK. There is A BIG BIG cognitive dissonance with the ianity. Paul says Almighty God needs no "worship" because Almighty God has need of nothing and only wants seekers to find the Source within themselves, not worshippers in an outward monkey see monkey do religious entertainment. "FEEL" after him??? That must mean we are spiritually blind but need to use EVERY POSSIBLE sense organ and our whole heart, mind and soul to SEEK and FIND. Yeshua echos this, of course. Or rather Paul echos Yeshua here. Again the OMIPRESENCE of the PRIME ALL-PARENT. What could be clearer? This knowledge of WHO and WHAT Almighty God IS was already known in the east and in the east, they well know that outlets such as Krishna and the many Buddhas were living expressions of the ONE. What happened to the "only begotten Son?" Wasn't Paul even "saved?" Again, a few decades later, Yeshua was hijacked by the ianity and made into a religious icon to be put up on an alter and "worshipped." This produced SEPARATION from that which is completely NOT separated in any way whatsoever. So, now we have "Sunday Worship" which keeps the sheeple in lock-step by effectively replacing 24/7 SEEKING, where someone is likely to overstep their bounds, have a creative thought or spiritual vision and become a "heretic." Let's go play church and fulfill our weekly obligations. Be a decemt member of society. Be sure and put a check on the offering plate, eat a ** and drink some grape juice. Make it a big check so you can win a raffle ticket and then we'll go have our ice cream social after the evening worship---you know, "fellowship." Don't bring up anything serious there. It's all about a place to have fun and games instead of watching Miami Vice on tee vee and being enticed by demons of murder and lust. Ho hum. Be sure and give the Evangelist plenty of gold and silver in order that Gaaawd wil; make you a millionaire for the sake of bringing the gospel of abundance to the impoverished savages, jungle bunnies and Hotentots in dark ignorance. Thnk of all the guuud you will do after God blesses you with that unexpected check in the mail. Forgive my creative speculation in the next paragraph but these ideas are also believed by some folks as much as folks believe in a historical "Jesus." And I say, so what? Even if one, two, more or all of these perspectives are actually historicaly true-----it changes nothing. And why should anyone be disappointed if one or more of these are actually true? If you are diappointed it only means that your belief system was based on something totally outward and you forgot the inner seeking to find out WHO and WHAT you are. Well, whether Jesus actually died on the cross and was resurrected as reported by the Bible, or (as the Aramaic Talmud of Jmanuel reports) only had a near-death experience and was medically treated by his friends from India during the three days in Joseph of Armithea's tomb but was actually alive when the disciples saw him and then went to India where he died at the ripe old age of 125 and is now buried in a tomb in Kashmier, where incidently, there is a real shrine of the supposed tomb of Isu the Christ which is visited by pilgrims ----but it doesn't matter ONE IOTA. No. Even if he never actually existed AT ALL, it doesn't matter. Why? Because all about him is US and our own individual hope of spiritual transformation and bodily ascension. Death survival. If the entire story is sheer fantasy blown up from ancient Egyptian myths, it is still not a "lie" but the longing of the human soul to get beyond this planetary dysfunction and see peace on earth and goodwill toward men---an environment where our children and grand-children can grow with happiness and not be made a human sacrifice for the demon Moloch as is not the case. Whether anyone believes it actually happened historically or not, doesn't matter. Many believe there was never a historical Buddha, Krishna or Moses either. So what? Even if the Holy Roman Fathers totally invented the entire thing, it doesn't matter. Even if the whole thing is a programed viral thought--meme by extraterrestrial intelligences in an effort to keep us from blowing up the entire planet, it doesn't matter one bit. It is whatever we want it to be. It is the longing of our collective consciousness to get unstuck from this prison planet with its long time control paradigm. Thank God all us borned again "saved" are gonna be whisked away to glory by angels in flyin saucers before that appointed day of God's wrath! Too bad that all those heathen unbelievers left behind are gonna burn up physically and then go to hell and burn forever spiritually.... but... they wouldn't pay their tithes to the man of Gaawd sos he could buy a new Mercedes. namaste

Hi again, brother Sky. I keep coming back to your post here and getting a good laugh. Thanks again. I can see all those saffron robed Buddhist Monks sitting in meditation and chanting or being silent. Suddenly, a themonuclear bomb explodes right over the Monastary. And, there they are.... right in the center of the Golden City with the holy angles flitting about the bejeweled throne of Almighty God. Jesus Christ is sitting at the right hand of The Father radiating white light in pulsating waves of blissful compassion that travel out over the Holy City. One Monk exhales and turns to the other and says, "where are we, anyway?" "In Christian heaven I guess, Rinpoche," says the Monk beside him. The Monk next to him says, "Looks the same to me as it always did." The little Monk on the back row spinning a prayer wheel speaks up and says, "tomorrow lets go on over to Jewish heaven, they have good bagels with cream cheese there." The first Monk inhales deeply and out-breathes, "YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM..." namaste

Yes. We all judge ourselves in the light of Universal Truth. This prepares us for the lessons of our next incarnation into earthen vessels. The "second death" is when we judge ourselves in the light of Universal Truth and choose to be no more, not eternal torment as advertised by the "ianity" and their twistings of the scriptures. This is what Yeshua taught not my supposition. Of course, neither you, nor I really know, do we? Not until we consciously experience it after this life is over. A state which we currently know nothing at all about, only heresay. We always create our own experience because, being created in the image and likeness of Almighty God we too are creative beings. As a man thinks, so is he because all this world we see and experience with our five senses came through thought, sound (word) and before that.... from the unknowable mystery which is the First Source. Dan, can you share your concept of what "Whosoever believes on Him" means? Exactly and not only their doing of crucifying Jesus but the ignorance governing their whole lives that had led up to that particular dark moment. Yes. Ignorance again. Once you see that there is Universal Law---God's Law of Cause and Effect--you become less ignorant and capable of more discernment about the consequences of your own actions. You no longer "obey" simply because you were told to obey but because you WANT to be in harmony with God and the Great Creation. At first you want to obey simply to avoid negative consequences... but.... a little further along, you act willingly with full confidence because joy unspeakable and full of glory blossoms within you and you are struck with awe beyond words. Because you become attuned to the Universal frequency of peace on earth and goodwill toward men--- a very joyous state of consciousness indeed. And that is the world soon to come as the old one vaporizes due to its own suicidal dysfunction. Not a far-away heavenup in the sky but realm existing in a different frequency which is already right here on a transformed and very beautiful Mother Earth presently mostly out of our sight but not always ---- totally unlike our present Mother Earth who is presently in painful travail to bring forth. An entirely new thought form which is in total synchronization with the Galactic cycles instead of the completely man-made artifical time-line we are now experiencing that disconnects us from ourselves, one another and the rest of the Universe---expressed by the Julian and Gregorian calendar, the calendar of vibrational dissociation, war, greed, control, fear and ignorance. You know, our perishing civilization? Overcoming ignorance is just like what any child learns by growing up. The child has all the experiences of making mistakes and correcting them--i.e. LEARNING from the mistakes made. And that is the Life Process and should never be despised. It is what our evolution of consciousness (our SPIRITUAL GROWTH) is all about. OVERCOMING so that we can BECOME. As ignorance is overcome, we no longer blindly "obey" God's Law simply because he "said" it or Moses "said" it or Jesus "said" it in a reportedly holy book---but----obedience turns to willing participation when we come to the realization that, indeed, WE are responsible for our own creations, whatever they are, and with whatsoever judgements we make on other beings, the rebounding effect comes right back upon us every time. Either sooner or later. It is automatic and cannot fail. However... other actions, such as repentance, can change that rebounding effect of the previous actions. This in Buddhism is called the Law of Karma. You perform some action and there is a reaction. However, that reaction is not necessarily instant in your linear time-line. Its rebounding effect can be instant---or---not until many years later. But it is certain to rebound... unless.... another action mitigates it. You act and before the full reaction occurs you do another action that changes the reaction rebounding from the first action. But this has to be entirely a matter of a genuine change of heart. You can't "fake it" no matter how hard you try. By trying to fake it you are only increasing the rebounding effect of the first action and the power of the rebound is compiled and increased. You cheat someone, steal from someone else to pay the first person back, rob a bank to repay the person you stole from and just as you start to relax thinking you got it made.... WHAM!!!! A meteor falls out of the sky and smashes you to bits. EVERY action has an equal reaction. So, if you murder someone, you may go to the electric chair.... or you may make yourself very useful in prison having creatively discovered a way to uplift many people. Maybe you can make people laugh, comfort people, teach your language to others, or carve a beautiful sculpture out of a piece of wood or whatever. And it does not necessarily have to be something which has anything at all to do with "religion." And then suddenly some circumstance happens mysteriously---a synchronicity---and the death sentence is suddenly over. You get an unexpected reprieve. Life behind bars instead. A synchronicity has occurred. Surprise. A pleasant surprise. Maybe the governor's conscience was activated because he discovered that he had been sending innocent people to the electric chair and the new methods of using DNA evidence had proved it. Maybe HIS conscience told him, "I can no longer kill human beings no matter how bad a criminal they are. I will give them life imprisonment instead. Killing another human being is just plain wrong and I can no longer do it because I have human blood on my hands due to my ignorance." So, instead of being executed your life becomes an upliftment to all beings. This has happened to people who never believed in Christianity or any religion whatsoever. Why? Because the Law of Cause and Effect, like Almighty God, is absolutely no respector of persons and works regardless of what you believe or don't believe. You get according to what you give. And that's every human being on earth regardless of their "belief" system or whether of not thay "believe" this or that. You can be the most pious, praying-every-hour, giving to the poor Christian.... and still ruin your life and the life of your family by running off to Flourida with the Sunday School teacher's wife. Happens all the time. Some Karma is instant. "...but forgive us our trespasses AS WE forgive those who trespass against us." This is God's Law of Cause and Effect in action. If we forgive, then we are forgiven. Period. If we do not forgive, then we retain our own sins. God doesn't need to do it. God is not "punishing" us.... WE ARE punishing ourselves in our DARK IGNORANCE. What ignorance? Ignorance of how the Great Creation of which we are an integral part.... operates. Know thy SELF oh man, for therein you will discover Almighty God and your individual limitations in this unlimited Universe. But, of course, we have to learn to also forgive ourselves and that takes honest dealing with and understanding the Universal Law of Cause and Effect. "As ye sow, so shall ye also reap." This is our individual personal responsibility which is not done away with due to the "blood" of Jesus. How, pray tell, can ANYONE avoid being an ignorant child? Without certain life experiences we can NEVER grow up. NEVER. Those experiences are 100% necessary in order for us to learn the difference in the quality of the creations we create---either heaven or hell.... FOR OURSELVES. We are responsible for our own actions. The "devil" didn't make us do anything and Almighty God didn't either. And if we were constantly being "saved" from the consequences of our own actions, we would never pass kindergarten. WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE CIRCUMSTANCES WE CREATE ACCORDING TO OUR UNDERSTANDING OF WHO AND WHAT WE ARE AND HOW THIS UNIVERSE OPERATES. And whether we like this or not, like breathing, it is one of life's requirements. That's the great lesson we are ALL learning, whether we know it or not. That's why Jesus is far less "upset" with sin than with our ignorance. Boozing, shooting heroin, fornicating, partying, stealing, deceiving, murdering, making war, destroying the earth, expliting others, ignoring the homeless, being a religious hypocrite is all due to one thing and one thing only---- OUR IGNORANCE. Our many daily sins are due to our basic IGNORANCE about who and what we are and how The Almighty God operates in the Great Creation in which we are totally immersed as a living fragment. If we actually knew what the SURE consequences of all those destructive things were, we would never want to do them in the first place because we could then see the damage we are doing to ourselves and all other creatures. If we persist in our ignorance we can evntually choose to annihilate ourselves and be no more. Our choice. And if we became aware that the potential power we have is exactly the same as that of the son-of-man we would becomes healers exactly like him. HE said so. Do we believe what He said? Or do we have some doctrine that says, "well, those miracles were for then but now they are passed away because we have the Haaaowly Biable." However, the son-of-man says, "that which I do you will do also." I have seen it proven beyond the shadow of a doubt. What is a so-called "miracle" anyway? It is the energetic life-power of the Universe manifested through you, although it is beyond your present knowledge about how the Universe works. That's all it is. Almighty God never does anything that the servants of Almighty God can do on his/her behalf. That's what the servants of Almighty God are about because they, like you and I, have Almighty God dwelling right INSIDE them at the very core of their Being. There is no need to constantly offer begging prays to a Father-Figure way off "up ther" in outer space somewhere sitting on a golden throne dispensing blessings and curses. There is no need to "beg" at all. We only "beg" because we are ignorant and do not understand that Almighty God is constantly flowing every iota of our Source being who Creator the whole Universe, right into us and cares not what color you hair is nor how smart you are nor how holy you are. It is up to us to process that dispensation and serve either Almighty God or serve our ego-self interests. We and only we decide which way to go. It is not in any way super-natural as advertised. It is not begging a God "up there in the sky" to do something and he finally reluctantly says, "oh okay." He NEVER withholds one iota of Himself from anyone for any reason--- even the most vile ignorant sinner. It is WE that determine our individual interface with our own Source which is God, the All-Parent. And I can say that----having both witnessed and participated. Yeshua was an energetic healer filled with organic life-power. He laid hands on the sick and they recovered. You can do likewise if you live his life-style and manner of eating, drinking, fasting, meditating, praying, etc. But, even if you do not live that life-style, so-called "miracles" can still happen----but not at will----only as occasional synchronicities when all the elements are mysteriously lined up and resonating---but you have no idea how. And, in my case, being no where near having the pure life-style of the son-of-man, the healings I have seen happen which some would call "miraculous" occurred only about six or seven times in my entire life. So, if we want the Almighty to take away our "sins" we have to deal with our own ignorance first. And, of course we already have by studying the Bible, fellowshipping, being alert to the needs of others, seeking with all our heart, soul and mind, etc. Dealing with our own ignorance is what the Buddhists and many many other peoples across the world call Self-Realization. Coming face to face with the Universal SELF--- the One-Source of All-That-Is which resides within us not just "with" us externally. In the Aramaic, the name Immanuel means just that. God WITHIN us. Yet another distortion in the Greek to disconnect us from the reality of our One Source. This is my very limited, very narrow and very biased point of view. That is the state of all of our points of view. I am not unique in that and neither is anyone else. He forgave them, not because they were "sinners" but because they were ignorant and knew not what they were doing. Their understanding was in darkness. They weren't "innocent" but had created an action that was to automatically rebound upon them due to the Law of Cause and Effect which they were ignorant of. But their reaction to having been forgiven created more action and in this case completely mitgated the rebounding effects by introducing an opposite charge, so to speak. Oh, they may have heard the Law of Moses all their lives, but remained ignorant of the reality of Almighty God residing right inside them. Many in the Christ--ianity of today are the same. But suddenly they were confronted with LOVE ITSELF and melted right into it. Immediate their thought was changed and began to put out such a strong positive and genuine thankfulness and appreciation as to dissolve the rebounding Karma of their former evil deeds. Their re-action to Jesus Christ was a new and transformed action, that negated their former actions of dark ignorance. This is the principle of how God's Law of Cause and Effect (Karma) works precisely and continually. The slightest disturbance of the Universal Energy Field creates a ripple. Evil thoughts can be canceled out by good thoughts and vice versa. The tremendous negativity going on right now in the world effect us more than we realize but many are starting to spend time together in meditation to mitigate these evil thought waves assaulting us from every direction. As a man thinks in his heart.... so IS he. So, if he doesn't like how he is, the first thing he must do is change his own thought-froms because every thought has a Karmic effect---- no matter how tiny and weak---- or big and powerful it is. Inwardly, they did know better becuase God their Source is within them. Only they refused to pay attention to that still small voice. And the Law of Cause and effect always operates. Ignorance does not mitigate Karma only a different action and new thinking. Dan, there were still consequences anyway because "ignorance of the Law is no excuse." Jesus didn't need nor desire to suspend the Law of Cause and Effect at all. The Law of Cause and Effect is the very Will of Almighty God. Every cause has an effect. Every action has a consequence.... good, bad... or.... in between. However..... the evil actions can be mitigated in their rebounding effect when they are replaced by a different thought-form. The Universal Law of Cause and Effect was not suspended because they didn't know better. It still works. Always. Why? Because it is the way the entire Universe works all the time continually. God is not some separated man with a white beard up in the sky deciding each issue as it occurs, but a Prime Source with built in Law and Intention that is Intelligent, Loving and Compassionate ALL THE TIME beyond anything we can possibly imagine. But, if you remember (and I'm sure you do) many of those who had crucified him, at the end, became full of awe and said, "SURELY THIS WAS THE SON-OF-GOD!" So, their conscience was CONVICTED and then they could repent and be totally healed. And because Jesus redeemed the world from the "sin against love" the way of repentance was made open to all, regardless of their belief system, and, among more than a few, suddenly their eyes were opened. Revelation. Enlightenment. An "AHA!" A DIVINE "AHA!" "GOD FORGIVE ME, I SEE IT NOW!" And God says, "OK, go and sin no more." And then, several people who had been full of religious fanaticism, fear and hatred became new people with an entirely new direction. The old thinking no longer applied. Compassion replaced hatred. Love replaced fear. So, if someone was in that crowd and said, "this man was a wicked fraud and now we finally got rid of him," the common Christ--ianity judgement is that "that sinner is hard of heart and headed to eternal torture and probably deserves to be eternally separated from Almighty God forever and ever!" I say, no. This is absurd. There is NOTHING sparated from the ONE. Nothing. He only has to experience the school of hard-knocks a bit more and he too will get his eyes open. And what is that "school of hard knocks?" Why, this prison planet, of course and reincarnation is more than a religious doctrine but a basic cyclic principle of the entire Great Creation---and now even a scientifically proven fact. For the most part, remembering our past lives is completely unimportant and a great distraction because we are a completely NEW personality each time round. Different personality, same spirit undergoing a new learning experience in a new bioform created to contain that particular human spirit according to the purpose of our new incarnation. And reincarnation was indeed the very teaching of the son-of-man and Gutama Buddha as well and many many other spiritual teachers all throughout history, including one of the earliest Roman Catholic Fathers who was right at the transition where the Roman doctrine supplanted the fact of reincarnation---Origen who knew very well that reincarnation was the teaching of Jesus as did St. John of the Cross, St. Francis and quite a few more who were smart enough to be very quiet about it lest they burn. Scholars only know definitely about Origen who was the most prolific of all the Holy Fathers and blurted it right out there, although later when the full dogmatization occurred, the Church forced him to backpeddle or else. Many others believed in reincarnation also, it also being a part of Judaism, but, as you know, it became called a so-called "gnostic heresy" that sent people to the burning stake as a clear example of what happens to those who dare to have a creative thought outside the "Holy" status quo. This was their ianity compassion and mercy in blazing action. Judge the tree by the fruit it bears. That's some mighty evil fruit indeed, I'd say. This is so well documented from many sources of history that it is just a matter of whether a person is ready to be real or not. All of Satan's kingdom couldn't do a better job. Some of those present must have been convicted in their conscience and said, "this is just plain wrong." So, I pray-----"Great All-Parent forgive those who dwelt in fear and anxienty and felt it necessary to brutally destroy all disagreement, for they were ignorant and thought there would be no consequences for their violence, personal ambitions, lies and deceptions in the name of the Most High. And forgive us, as we forgive them, because they are only a mirror of our own ignorance also. Thank you for presenting us with this very useful lesson." But that religious control paradigm did act as a catalyst to make us not-so-willing to just blindly accept something simply because a "professional" Holy Theologian told us so. And the ones burned forgave their tormentors also for the same reason the son-of-man forgave those standing around the cross. namaste