cuchulain

I think it is simple logic and deduction to assert that IF the Christian version of God exists, that is all powerful all knowing and all loving, AND he behaves like he did in the bible, then the evidence would be clear in the first place without our having had to ask for it. So...evidence NOT being blatantly in our faces, contrasts with the ideal God of the Bible, in my mind negating the idea altogether.

I don't KNOW what to expect, to be honest I have a feeling that this particular member might be more open minded than many others, and so I am kind of testing the waters to see how my responses might be taken. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I often find myself trying at least to give people the benefit of the doubt and hoping. Maybe he is legitimately curious about how we as Atheists can NOT believe in the things that he has accepted as basic truths of the world. Maybe he hasn't had a whole lot of contact with Atheists in his every day life and just doesn't know that much about it, and he might even be reaching out to see what kinds of doubts resonate with him. It might all be just like Johnathan thinks, too. My mind isn't made up yet.

i was looking for archaeological confirmation from that 2500 year gap of christianity...you know they claim to have existed from the beginning, so there should be SOMETHING around the times of adam and eve, or close at least. there are writings that old, so there should be something christian like that old since they had direct dealings with god and his NEW creations...or one would think, anyway.

not trying to open that, just trying to find evidence of things from the beginning, where there appears to be a gap.

wanting something to be true doesnt make it so, any more than Edith Hamiltons mythology is true. do theists want something so badly they'll accept anything from fear of death?

i wonder of late. if the bible IS infallible, and Christianity evolved from Judaism, and that began roughly 1500 b.c.e. by all the sources i can find, but the biblical age of the world is about 6k years... why no evidence from BEFORE Judaism? There was apparently 2500 years before Judaism, biblically speaking. Am I missing something obvious?

and usually by a christian who just asserted we should nuke the middle east...

i dont know.

I can appreciate the belief, but you cannot call belief fact just because you believe it, you know? If you believe all this, offer some proof. Of course, the bible says...but that's not really proof. But if you want to acknowledge that it's belief based instead of fact based, by all means believe as you wish.

lack of ability to disprove an argument doesnt make it a truth.

your story assumes that the bible is true AND that your audience here believes it, but speaking for myself...it isnt and i dont. i dont see a positive message from this either.

jews, romans, christian or pagan...all human.

i haven't always been the best person on this forum, but i will attest that i consider you to be one of the most tolerant to others, and i have often thought as deeply as I'm capable of when reading your posts(i know, not a ringing endorsement, eh).

we were poor enough when i was extremely young that we often received donations of meat from hunters and stood in line for government cheese at the housing projects...i miss that cheese, it was good. my mom decided to change our circumstances and got her 4 year rn in two years, and we werent poor anymore. i think her hard work was the best lesson i ever had, both in what we can do and in whats worth it.

i think its part of the human condition...to which we should all have some common ground, eh?

and dont forget erroneous belief. maybe i think i know you well enough to trust your word on it, and i turn out to be wrong. and level of claim vs belief, that iss...it really isnt something relavent to me so choosing to believe is frivolous, as opposed to belief in religion that claims horrible consequence if i dont.

Faith as an instinctive need? I am not certain about that one. There is a lot of historical data, lots of societies and cultures through the centuries that appear to have clearly made things up simply to explain the universe, so maybe it's true. Of course, another thing that's true about people is that we are capable of recognizing our baser instincts and correcting those behaviors. So, if faith is not instinctive, it's a non issue. If it is, then we are capable of bettering that flaw(I see it as a flaw anyway, can't speak for everyone). I agree that thinking about belief isn't belief. It's kind of like thinking about drinking water doesn't quench your thirst...

i dont see anything as falling into those categories, rather that we dont understand at present. of course, irrational behavior is human and understandable and at times we fail to be rational, but the pursuit is worthwhile for me.

It has been suggested that I never start topics. I smile at this, remembering when I used to start many topics, but when I realized that quantity did not equate quality. We have several new members, I see the list grow on a daily basis. Many different beliefs, philosophies, ideas. Call them as you will. Call a rose by any other name, and it would smell as sweet, I say. So I thought, with these new people, these new ideas, perhaps there would be some few who were seeking information about others' ideas and beliefs. I haven't posted anything in a while about stoicism, which is a philosophy I follow(or attempt to, for often I fail to live up to my own ideas, yet still I try). So I thought I would post some of the basic ideas that I attempt to hold to, for those who might be curious as to what stoicism is. Nature is rational. The universe is governed by the law of reason. We cannot escape this force, much like the current of a river, but we can choose to go with the flow. A life led by a rational nature is innately virtuous. Passion is antithetical to reason, and so should be avoided as best we can. Pleasure isn't good or bad, it merely is. Poverty, illness, death, these are not evil...they are states of being that we find ourselves in. Wisdom is the base of virtue. It is obtained through experience and learning. Virtue should be sought for virtue's sake, that is not through pleasure, but duty. Focus on what you can control, not on what is beyond your control. Take action. When a decision is reached on right action, take action to make it so. Or conversely, if you believe something is wrong, do something about it or cease doing it. Amor Fati: Love everything that happens. Understand that life is experience, experience is wisdom, and take in everything that happens to you for your improvement. Turn obstacles into opportunities. Be mindful. Sounds kind of Jedi like, doesn't it? There are other ideas that flow through all this, but this is a general representation in any case. Feel free to discuss, disagree, or agree...Attack the ideas I have presented if it please you, and maybe we can all learn something from the confrontation. Add to the ideas if you think there needs to be more, by all means. Life isn't set in stone, certainly...well, unless you choose to be buried in a mausoleum that is But then, it isn't life anymore, is it?

It sounds like an action that would fit right in with the stoics as well. I would say that objects are not as important as people, and maybe the Rabbi understood the cycle these things tend to take. Maybe he thought if he could absolve the thief of wrongdoing, the thief's future actions would change for the better. Of course, it's all speculation on my part I don't know, in reality.

I admit that debating is something I enjoy. If that's your opinion, that you already know everything, how do you expect to learn anything? I fully admit I have faults, one of them is this in particular, this responding to people when I know I shouldn't. I understand it's something of a fault, and I do try to work on it. I fail, often. Sometimes I succeed. I do like to converse, and I am not trying to pick everything you say apart for any negative reasons. I simply like people to converse and examine their own beliefs as they examine mine. I will acknowledge this. Many religious people are power hungry, especially those who think they are in a position of power. Knowledge is power, and those who believe they know believe they have more power than those who don't. And often act accordingly.

I think when you call someone power hungry, it's an opinion. That's because its a subjective thing. Power hungry to one person is something else to someone else, yes? I tend to believe that things that are subjective are opinion. "That color is green"..."Oh no, you can't call that green, it's celery"..."Oh that isn't celery at all, more a sea foam". All of them are green to me, but hey...other people have different definitions, you know?

As an aside, sorry for the multiple posts to respond, I am not the most tech savvy person and don't know how to multiquote or whatever it's called.

This is what I reference when I say you act offended. The part where you say I enjoy trying to aggravate others because its what I live for and must have a really lonely existence and have your pity. Surely...you can see where a person might thing, after you attack them like that...that you are offended in some manner? But if you aren't offended, I apologize. It just seemed that way to me, and I must have misread or misinterpreted.

This was my very first response to you that you took such offense at...what you said was bashing you. What you claimed was an attack.