Raincloud

I agree with a lot of what people have said. Look after the wishes of the Hospice patient. It's not your job to start patching up people's lives. A lot of the times family members have erected these personal boundaries because they've exhausted every other method.

Who really knows? It's the great mystery. Modern Christianity claims exclusivity on knowing the Truth, but have not shown me how they can claim that above other religions. Why did the Apostles entertain Jesus was someone reincarnated if it was completely settled back then? Didn't the varying sects of Jews at the time of Jesus' murder, have different ideas of the soul, life after death, God etc? That's not to mention what the entire world was thinking. Too bad for Australian Aborigines who had to wait 1700 years for the trade marked truth to arrive.

Thanks Pete. Cheers It gives me something to think about. What I like about ULC is the universal approach.

Exactly. We are on the same page there and I'm glad Like it or not, The USA is the new dominant 'Empire' and it's approach to Christianity is a natural extension of 'Cultural Imperialism', especially in the English speaking world. Of course out of that, comes groups like the ULC

Look, guys, whether you are Jewish or Christian or Catholic....what people object to is not your religion existing or it's validity, rather being forced to follow it ourselves, and different paths being treated as heretical. When I was criticising Christianity at the start, it was mainly it's integration into 21st century far right politics. There is nothing in the Bible that talks about 21st century politics, because it was written ages ago. I was also writing from a place of disappointment and heartbreak that the religion is actually (to me) not about the spiritual teachings of the scriptures, but about grafting on to what whatever political sentiment is at the time, and being used a Mono-religion where no other interpretation is allowed. Do you understand my position?

Wow...ha! I haven't thought about that. Those Mosaic Laws are pretty damn tough!

Dan, do you fundamentally disagree with Kirby and the philosophy of the ULC? In that you have no respect for others expressions of faith, and other paths towards God, except outside 20th-21st Century American protestant viewpoint?

I've been following this thread and I appreciate all the replies, even the ones I may clash with. Please understand that I am not Anti-Christians, Anti-Christ or anti-Christianity. Christianity was my first religion and faith. I used to pray a lot as a child, because I went through bad times. In truth I am more a Universalist these days. Somewhat agnostic about what is the correct way to be a spiritual being. But I think that state of ignorance we live in, is standard, and we are not expected to know which is the correct club to join. Although moral acts are a reflection of what we can see in this life. Hurting other people is wrong. I appreciate what lockjohnathon says about the BaHai faith. Personally these days, my path is more non-dogmatic Wiccan like neopagan. Reflecting my European roots, and my modern experience as an Australian living in Australia. I don't hate political conservatives. In truth my parents and my wife's parents are political conservatives and I love and respect them. Even though, both are non-religious. So maybe this is why I can separate faith from political allegiance. I think there is a big danger is mixing your faith and religion. Could you imagine left wing people having their religion espoused through Obama, and what a disappointment he has been lately?

Thanks for giving it your best Dan.

I think I'll be heading back tot he NeoPagan Wicca way, as a path to experience the divine in my life.

There are many elements of Christianity that draw me back: Jesus, Holy Spirit, the Father, Salvation, sin, and even Hell (I like believing in Hell when I read about Rupert Murdoch), but my belief that Christianity is the only way is eroded when... I visit Christian forums populated by Americans whose belief in Christianity is synonymous with Far Right Republican politics. Then I start to see that this, was an Empire religion, forced on people by the Roman Empire, and used by social conservatives to maintain their own power in things. I start to realise that Christianity is only one of many opinions of what is 'God', out there. That the scriptures written after the fact, and that whilst containing many spiritually encouraging things are flawed. That none of us really know for sure what is going on with this thing called life, and whether we exist beyond death. I don't think my left wing politics, belief in social liberty and small government is somehow evil, because it's the opposite of what these Christians believe. I can only conclude that my belief in liberty is a good thing, and an actual God would approve. This is why I am no longer strictly Christian.

Thanks Rev Rattlesnake. It's good to know!

The thing that stops me becoming Catholic/Orthodox or Anglican is that they do 'Confession". Do the protestant denominations do this? Can I just go direct to Jesus and the Lord, ask for forgiveness, and not sin any more? I loathe the idea of proclaiming all my sins to a priest or even a whole congregation. Crying out loud, some things are left buried so it doesn't hurt people.

The foundations of the Christian religion were built on animal sacrifices. The whole blood of the Lamb thing. Without sacrificing the Blood of the Lamb (Jesus) there would be no Christian symbolism. So it's not just an ancient pagan thing. We may think it's sinister, by the bible is full of heros sacrificing innocent animals. My guess it's a couple of young psychos having pseudo satanic rituals to look cool. That being said, A chicken was sacrificed for my dinner tonight.

You post/ask as if you've never read and/or understood the United States Constitution. Why do you propose that liberty and "religion" are separate ideas/protections? Who has advanced such a cleaver prior to you?

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. A lot of faith can be mixed up with an established group. A religion. But do you personally preference the freedom of everyone, before your religious/spiritual beliefs? Does Liberty require a secular governance of a nation, to ensure the freedom of religion? Or should Liberty take a back seat if it means tolerating things that go against your religion?

It's 2013, I think we can progress beyond the 'keeping the women' down theme of the last few thousand years.

For every person that exploits the welfare system, there are a thousand more that exploit the taxation system, that exploit their workers, that exploit financial markets etc etc. Those people give honest Business people a bad name. Having worked with businesses and finance industry for the last 20 years, i will tell you there is far more crime, and exploiting that occurs by 'business people' and their employees behind the scenes than any welfare exploiter. So much occurs that is not disclosed. Often it's not the Owner's fault, but when their trusted employee of 20 years steals $100,000 from the Client trust Fund, it often gets settled quietly without police in order to protect the name of the business. I wish I could point the finger and say "Look it's a welfare exploiter problem'. But really? Who crashes economies? We've got a problem building in Australia. We are headed for a market crash and property crash. A lot of people have been hiding things. A lot of Banks have been doing illegal things. Look at all these Financial Planners that ruined people's lives. http://www.smh.com.au/business/banned-cba-planners-took-charge-of-millions-of-dollars-20130607-2nvh6.html What's a couple of food stamps, compared to what those guys do!!!

Thanks everyone! It was painful, messy, bloody, despairing journey. Lots of struggle with my own sins. I had never found that "thing" in other spiritual orientations. I think ultimately there is nothing like the Holy Spirit of Jesus. I was trying to find God in others. In Community. That's why I say, people didn't lead me back. I think I was looking at flesh, instead of getting in touch with spirit.

Thanks Dan.

I just felt like announcing this. You know that feeling? LOL Walked the neopagan/Wiccan path for a while... I have come full circle back to Jesus. You know, not a single Christian or Christian activity lead me back. I feel it was God. Spirit lead me back

I find that if I want something specific that I need to make a list. So it would be wise to write a massive list and then pray for a guy that meets all the aspects of the list. It worked for me

The historical Buddha talked about the Dharma ending times where eventually the Dharma will disappear from this realm, and then sometime in a the future a new self awakening buddha would bring it back. Rinse/Repeat for infinity. It's fair to say the Buddha worshipped neither the Bible nor the processes that destroy the physical book. Perhaps this is a third perspective.

I am currently taking two course with ULC Seminary, which is different from head office. I'm doing Master of Wicca and master of Paganism. I am impressed at how Amy from ULC Seminary has structured them. I'll probably do some of their Christian courses too.

I had one friend I told. This is the sort of friend who I would listen patiently as he told me all about his Pentacostal type evangelical beliefs and church he spends so much time in. I would give this guy an audience for his faith discussion for a while. When i told him, he said something like: "Well I have faith that my Pastor is properly qualified and ordained". He made his thoughts known loud and clear. I tend not to have much to do with him any more. I think a friend acts like a friend, they don't put you down.