Jonathan H. B. Lobl

Atheist lobby? What b.s. fantasy is this?

A moment of reality, if you please. Due to my low income, I got my "Obama phone" this past March. It is NOT a smart phone. It is NOT an I-phone. It is a cheaply made, poor quality "Safe-Link Trac Phone." It came with 253 minutes. I have not yet been able to get my 250 April minutes. There is no roll-over. Unused minutes are gone. It will not do anything with the internet. No music. No e-mail. No web. No games. No any other frills. That's it. The wonder and the glory of the free Obama phone. Give it a rest. It's better than nothing, but not by much. It is not the fantasy smart phone that people seem to be imagining.

If we are speaking with metaphysical purity, then yes. This is true. The All that is All is occupied with maintaining physical existence. I think that when most people speak of God, they envision a deity of more active involvement.

I'm going by Jewish history. I think it's a given that the metaphysics of God -- if we are to use the word -- does not change. On the other hand, the God of the Bible, "who" entered into an agreement with the Jewish people, that "He" would be "their" God, is a different matter. This rascal is not to be trusted. IMO Of course, he wasn't that great a deal for the gentiles either. He does blow hot and cold, picking one side to favor, then the other. Next time, "He" can choose someone else. Someone who does not learn from history.

Next time, God can choose someone else to pretend to love.

I get it. God is a screen onto which we project our own personalities. "God is like a mirror. The mirror never changes, but everyone who looks into it sees something different." unknown source Of course, that leads to other questions. What kinds of mind created the Biblical God? Nobody I would want as a friend.

I would like to fall back on the philosophy of Bertrand Russell. Why do we say that God is good? Is God subordinate to some principal of goodness? Then God is not all powerful and is not God. Is God good because God says that God is good? Then we are worshiping power. He said it better. That's as well as I can do from memory. While we are at it: Deut. Chapter 6 "For I the Lord your God am a jealous God......."

Then, people who have the wrong book are going to Hell? There's a loving God. This gives me a warm, gushy feeling. With an effort, I think I can keep it down.

Just so. We are working with different symbolism, but from a similar place. I expect that this is so.

At this point in my life, I don't find it useful to talk about "God." The word means too many different things to too many different people. Consequently, it is impossible to define -- at least in a useful way. A word that can not be defined is useless. Worse, "God" has so much intellectual and emotional baggage, that all it does is generate heat without light. Strictly my opinion -- if you want to use a tern like "All" or "Unity" -- You are managing to convey something. "God" is just an invitation to endless argument, about the reality behind the word. Even that argument gets repeated and rehashed when ever someone joins in. There are some distinctions worth making. "All" does not make Heaven or Hell. "Unity" does not expect or demand worship. "All" does not create, nor hide behind, Scripture. In addition, "Unity" does not issue "Commandments" like Judaism -- require "Submission" like Islam -- or need to "Sacrifice" itself to pay for our sins -- like Christianity. There is no murder for Unity. No holy war or terrorism for All. IMO

That opens a different can of worms. Once we say that God has little if anything to do with the Bible -- what's left of the Bible?

The Koran also has some choice words about avoiding Perdition. Good luck in picking the right book.

Of course, I don't believe that Hell exists. I refuse to be terrorized into submission. Not by the Catholic Church. Not by the Islamist terrorists. Not by you.

Yes. It's all about the creation and manipulation of fear and guilt. We must be saved from Hell because we are born to Original Sin. Oh look. The Church has the path to Salvation. Let us crawl, like the craven cowards that we are, and beg forgiveness for having been born Human. Then we can hope and pray that we guessed right, and don't end up in the Hell set aside for Non-Muslims.

I understand your perspective. I will stay with my own. That Hell is a scare tactic; designed to bring the Heathen into the fold and keep them there.

What makes it different is that the parents and clergy believe in devils and or The Devil. From that perspective, it is not terror. Only the truth. Yes. I know. We are looking at cross generation emotional pathology. It is contagious. There is nothing that can be done about it. At least nothing that would do more good than harm. Nothing helps a religion spread like persecution from the State. Mental health intervention must be voluntary to succeed. It is a thing of great sadness.

It's a grey area. We don't want the State telling people what to teach their children. Depending on who is in power, the winds can change direction. The people in power change like the fashions. Suppose the Theocrats came to power. I could see them forbidding people to teach children about Atheism. Or evolution. Or Norse mythology. Or Buddhism. Or.......

Yes. Control through fear.

To my perspective, the doctrine of Hell is the original terrorism. How appropriate it would be if the Christers and Islamists were to end up in each other's Hells. After all, both Hells are for unbelievers.

And still the Creationists come. Knocking on the door of the science class; insisting on equal time. The words change, but it's the same tune.

A small hateful mind will project itself into a small hateful God. So they have. Mean spirited and cruel. I'm sure these people have done more to advance Atheism, than the American Atheist Society. In much the same way, I expect that they have advanced the cause of gay marriage.

If they had actually picked up a Bible and read Job; they could never say such things. On top of everything else, this level of Bible ignorance is shocking.

Youch, Science teachers like to teach science. That is what they know. Given a choice, they do not teach Bible in their science class.

I have never spoken with a Science teacher who wanted to teach a course on Bible. I have spoken with many Science teachers who were blasted for not giving "equal time" to "Intelligent Design." I was there. In classrooms all over NYC.

Part of the problem is that they are so hard to love, or like, or respect -- on any level. The best I can manage is indifference. That will have to be enough.