Jonathan H. B. Lobl

I think it's both. This is why scientists like double blind studies. So that expectation and desire won't change the objective results.

My reasoning tells me that a perfect being, with a perfect message, would find a way. We are talking about God. The All Powerful and All knowing. Maybe not a perfect book, but a perfect transmission. Or, we could have the world that we have. The world that would exist, if the perfect being had not been involved. Of course, the All Powerful One could be crazy. Or not good. Or devious. Or a trickster. Or have a seriously awful sense of humor. Or be mean.

It simplifies things to open a Bible and see what it actually says. Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations No. Jesus was not a pacifist.

Not yet. Be patient. Better yet, be "quick".

Not at all. The usual depth for a grave is six feet.

It's a grave decision.

Surprise.

Over time, living religions change. I think Judaism is a good example. Take a Jew from 5,000 years ago. He is a nomadic member of 12 tribes, and he knows which tribe. His tribe. 2,000 years ago, Temple Judaism was still around. In 1492, Spain was the center of Sephardic Judaism. The dispersal had nothing to do with the Temple. Neither did the other Orthodoxies that developed in different areas of Europe. The Non-Orthodoxies that sprang up in the 19th Century were a major shift. Diversity has continued. The World now has Humanistic Judaism, which is not easy to describe. And the Jews for Jesus, which is even harder to explain. Hasidic Judaism, in different forms, is on the increase. Etc. Etc. Christianity has also changed over time. So has Islam. So has Vedanta/Hinduism. So have the different Polytheisms. We can NOT go by what the founders had in mind. That is not how the world works. Only dead religions don't change.

On this point, I will plead Agnosticism. Reincarnation might be the case. Also, reincarnation might not be the case. The body should recycle back to the biosphere.

The Universe is neither rational nor irrational. It is. We have to be rational. Holding every possible belief -- at the same time -- because God might be insane --, is crazy.

What? Seriously, WHAT? That is not critical thinking. That is refusing to think.

That kind of reasoning only works in Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.

When we look at ancient Scripture, what do we have? An oral tradition -- or fusion of traditions -- or pious fraud -- or any combination -- with editing -- that someone wrote down.

This is true, but my observation is valid. You are keeping some odd company. A stopped clock is right twice a day. Unless it's on military time. Then it's only right once a day.

meredog is capable of sophisticated arguing and reasoning. Much more than is being displayed here. I think it stinks of humor.

What you are suggesting is a trickster God. A God who could have produced perfect Scripture. A God who chose instead, to produce what we have. This is the type of thinking used by Young Earth Creationists. That the Earth is less than 6,000 years old -- but was created to seem billions of years old. You keep some odd intellectual company. What are you playing at?

Or, I have chosen to cease my dithering, over the most over blown trivia known to Humanity. If God were real -- and cared -- there would be no confusion over the word. If God were not real -- or didn't care -- we would have a world that looks like the world we have. Either way, it doesn't matter.

The source was people. Nothing else is possible. Interpretation is only important to the people who care. Life is short. I have other concerns.

Yes. Scripture is a mess. That means the author -- if we can put it in singular -- was not perfect. Ergo. The author was not God. It still begs an obvious question. Why does God need Human scribes?

Which confusion do you mean? Interpreting the word? Or the source of the word? They are different issues.

1. This board is not Animal Farm. None are more equal than others. In this place, I speak my mind. 2. Grudges? An odd choice of words. I prefer to say that I have issues. There is nothing invisible about them. I see them clearly. 3. Obsessions? I have to be me -- as Frank Sinatra said in his song. I'm 64. My views and convictions formed over time. Of course, I know it's happening. You think I have no self awareness? 4. Addiction? To what? Reality? I think of it as growing up. What's really destructive is a life without integrity -- and being afraid to speak up, when fools try to change me for the worse. There are other things in my life. Things other than Atheism. I belong to a Star Trek fan club. I take classes in qi gong and tai chi -- which really help with my arthritis. I follow politics and listen to music and lectures on physics. I donate blood. I'm the senior editor for my senior center's newsletter. I take care of my 97 year old mother. I deal with my financial grief. I cope with fatigue. Then again, I live in a religious culture. Most of the time, I manage to ignore it. Now and then, I get a lung full of methane and I can't ignore it. That is the truth of things. My truth.

1. No. I would not be amazed. Not even mildly surprised. There is nothing new about pious fraud. Motivation varies greatly. 2. I could name a few, but it would not be politic. The whole showing respect thing.

My Atheism comes up on this board for obvious reasons. Most of the people in my social circle, don't know anything at all about my Atheism. Of those few who do, the subject seldom comes up. When the subject of religion does come up, I deal with it in my own honest way. Are you under the impression that I go around foaming? I have more urgent matters at hand. There is one proviso. When the pious ask me about my beliefs -- and I answer truthfully -- sometimes they get hot. Their issue. Not mine.

In the process of discovering what is true -- it is helpful to recognize the false. This is not complaining. This is not obsessing. This is not attacking. This is integrity.

I think we both have decided. There is no reason to take God belief seriously. This has nothing to do with rebellion. Only coming to terms with reality. Like adults. Religion does offer something to rebel against. Then again, religion is not God. A distinction worth making.