True Self

[Atwater Vitki]

Greetings to all,

Other than a couple of "check ins" I haven't been around the Forums much for several months. With great shame I must confess this has been due to inner turmoil concerning my faith in our One God. Back in May of this year, I, a minister of the Universal Church of Humanism, nearly cost myself my most cherished and precious gift of this Life. My wife Kay.

I had several explosive outbursts that were far from tolerant, less than refined and certainly not of my True Inner Core Beliefs. I am not a violent person, nor am I usually one of destructive behavior. I could honestly say the "Devil" himself came into my consciousness, but that would be giving the Dark One credit where it is not due. Rather I must admit back sliding into depths of depression that I have not endured for many, many years. On one hand I suppose I could lighten my guilt by saying this is merely being Human. On the other hand it would be a cop out to use such flim-flammery as an excuse.

I temporarily lost control of Self and am regretful for that.

After 29 years of being Kay's best friend and nine years of living together, six of that married, I back slid into a black hole of emotional decay. She has thankfully forgiven me and we enjoyed our 6th wedding anniversary August 15th with renewed spirit and repeated vows.

So look, I'm not trying to wash personal laundry here, rather I'm looking at this experience as a trial set forth by the "Dark One", "Devil", "Satan" or whatever one wishes to label such a mind boggling experience. The fact is I'm certain that many of us have our "trials by fire" in many different ways.

This is what has brought me to post this thread actually.

Is it EXTERNAL or Internal forces that cause us to facilitate such atrocious behavior towards our loved ones? Is it fair to say "The devil made me do it"? Is it correct for us to excuse our behavior when things go wrong by foisting off our emotional outbursts on some mythical, external source?

I'm not so sure it is. The Christ routinely prodded us to 'look within', to seek and answer 'within' and I believe he had a far greater grasp of the great "I AM!" or God within than I do. I do not find anywhere in Biblical scripture or other religious writings any context to an internal devil or Satan, but there are numerous inferences to an internal God 'within'. So am I saying "God" made me do it? Absolutely not. God may have, however, allowed me to experience the worst aspects of my Self that I still need to work on. I believe, now, that this trial or test was a final test, or at least one of the 'finals', of Self that had to have the greatest, albeit most devastating consequences, attached to it for me to "get it".

As many of you know, I can be a very hard headed 'Viking' and often have no problem voicing my views. It does seem that I need the 'hammer and axe' affect for me to get off my high horse of self appointed opinions and LISTEN to the other side of the story or see some else’s point of view, as THEY intended. NOT as I see fit to interpret what they are saying. Trials of a Spiritual Nature can be very devastating if not properly handled and/or comprehended.

I look at it much the same here, in the ULC Forums, where I have routinely spouted off with my Universal Spiritualism "correctness" and made comments on things that: 1.)really have no significant meaning to me 2.)really don't matter as the "author" isn't going to convert me anyway 3.) simply have no effect on my life 4.) is only some one else having their way with their words

This doesn't mean that I haven't had a few nurdles of wit or glimpses of insight to pass along to others, but what am I, or we, really trying to get across when we are so adamant in our beliefs or wisdom we fail to see the same commitment by others to their views? The Christ also had this correct when he taught the mass saying:

Mat 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

One of my biggest faults is being so oblivious to others message when conversing and this is what I believe my trial was all about. How demeaning is it to some one you supposedly ‘love’ to make them feel like they are never ‘heard’? How demeaning is it to Self to not allow one’s self to listen, thus truly hear, what some one is trying to communicate to you? As silly as it may seem, devastating, on both accounts.

Far too often I think I should have, in the past, reclassified myself as a ‘reactionary’ not as a Spiritual Leader. While others were speaking I was constantly looking for my next commentary on what they were saying rather than hearing them out, in full, and then responding to what was said. All too often I wouldn’t respond to what they said rather I would interject my own experiences as a means of ‘identifying’ with them. This is something that perhaps may have some impact on others out there to think about.

Forums are a bit different in that we suspect that a person has posted the whole and complete version of what they are trying to say and thus we respond to them. In personal, live conversation it can be quite different, which is what I think was my need for a learning curve.

Communication is not talking at another person. It is supposed to be an exchange. Hear what they have to say and respond to that, not interject one’s personal “opinion” or try and relate by expressing how you ‘know how they feel’ because you’ve had this experience or that. As an example:

Person 1: “I feel really depressed over not having the opportunity to talk to my Dad, before he passed away, about things he did to me as a child.”

Person 2: “Oh, I know how you feel because when my Dad passed on we were in the middle of a big fight and I felt so guilty about that!”

Person 1: “Well I really have had to pray about it because I felt so angry inside.”

Person 2: “Oh for sure! I got so angry I took things out on my wife and I even kicked the dog!”

Do you think “Person 1” feels like they are having a discussion about how they feel or are they a bit miffed because it seems like everything goes back to “Person 2”? Would you want to continue this conversation or would you find a polite excuse to leave?

This, to make light of the situation, was what I did in the past all too often. Yes, I do feel guilty for acting like this and makes me wonder why so many people say I had such a wonderful and warm personality. It also makes me wonder why so many people demand that I over saw their ceremonies or events. It had to be because I could cut everyone up with the right joke at the right time instead.

So now that I’ve had a few months to work on Self concerning this matter I find things going to a much better place and I think I really do have something to offer others. Things go quite different now days around my home and ministry and I have found I still have my opportunity to interject, but when the time is right. For example:

Person 1: “I feel really depressed over not having the opportunity to talk to my Dad, before he passed away, about things he did to me as a child.”

Person 2: “That is a very difficult pain to deal with.”

Person 1: “Well I really have had to pray about it because I felt so angry inside.”

Person 2: “Praying or Self examination is a good way to deal with your hurt.”

Person 1: “You think so? How so?”

Person 2: “When my Dad passed on we were in the middle of a big fight and I felt so guilty about that!”

Of course these little tid-bits of conversation are a bit simplistic, possibly even lame to some readers, but, I think you all can see my point of what I mean. One is an involved manner the other is a “what about me” manner. It is very difficult to come to grips with the “evil” or “bad side” of one’s own nature, but, isn’t that how we grow?

I honestly think the lesson for me was ‘How could I expect anyone to give two toots about what I had to say when I wasn’t giving that in return’? For me to truly understand my own fault I had to nearly implode my own relationship. I hope others won’t have to go to such extremes to identify some of the basic principles of human nature, not so much in others, but in Self.

Whether it’s being a self proclaimed “Spiritual Leader” or by consensus, being appointed one. If I could change one thing, or many, about myself it would have to be the Self I portrayed to others. It would be the Truth in how I visualized Self versus how others did. In simplistic terms it would be to have been a real listener instead of being a humorous identifier of others thoughts conveyed to me. Of course there is a time and place for humor, but there is also a time and place to be what some one else really needs at any given moment. Until I was able to discern the difference I was nothing more than the blow-hards I so adamantly despise.

A very tough and humiliating lesson to learn, but one I know I have truly taken to heart and hopefully will never back slide into again. Thanks for “listening” y’all and Blessings be to each of you.

Reverend Al,

Atwater, CA

[Fawzo]

I agree with this Biblical Scripture on the subject:

For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Mark 7:21-23 (KJV)

External conditions at times can bend a person to their limits, but IMHO as long as that person is in touch with their true selves they will not snap or break. I guess that is why it is such good advice :

Preach the word be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine 2 Tim 4:2 (KJV)

A lot easier to say than do, this I know. We are human and slip at times, but hopefully we learn from the mistakes and don't repeat them again.

The only Devil or Demon that leads me to do anything is my own selfish, ego.

[Bro. Hex]

Greetings to all,

Back in May of this year, I, a minister of the Universal Church of Humanism, nearly cost myself my most cherished and precious gift of this Life. My wife Kay...I had several explosive outbursts that were far from tolerant, less than refined and certainly not of my True Inner Core Beliefs. I am not a violent person, nor am I usually one of destructive behavior. I could honestly say the "Devil" himself came into my consciousness, but that would be giving the Dark One credit where it is not due.

It sounds to me Al, like you already sense that blaming the Dark One wouldn't be completely honest.

Rather I must admit back sliding into depths of depression that I have not endured for many, many years. On one hand I suppose I could lighten my guilt by saying this is merely being Human. On the other hand it would be a cop out to use such flim-flammery as an excuse.

Al, I would caution against "framing the issue" in moralistic terms. I think that it is more useful to understand depression in terms of mental health, and not in terms "character" or "morality". I suggest that you avoid viewing this as "back-sliding".

I temporarily lost control of Self and am regretful for that.

After 29 years of being Kay's best friend and nine years of living together, six of that married, I back slid into a black hole of emotional decay. She has thankfully forgiven me and we enjoyed our 6th wedding anniversary August 15th with renewed spirit and repeated vows.

See response immediately above.

I'm looking at this experience as a trial set forth by the "Dark One", "Devil", "Satan" or whatever one wishes to label such a mind boggling experience. The fact is I'm certain that many of us have our "trials by fire" in many different ways.

Lots of folks do this. I don't find it appropriate unless you can "smell the brimstone".

This is what has brought me to post this thread actually.

Is it EXTERNAL or Internal forces that cause us to facilitate such atrocious behavior towards our loved ones?

Is it fair to say "The devil made me do it"? Is it correct for us to excuse our behavior when things go wrong by foisting off our emotional outbursts on some mythical, external source?...I'm not so sure it is.

I am pretty sure, from the tone of your beginning, that you already know the answer to this one.

(It is not easy for me to) LISTEN to the other side of the story or see some else’s point of view, as THEY intended. NOT as I see fit to interpret what they are saying.

Being a good listener isn't easy. Most of us have to really "work at it".

How demeaning is it to (someone) you supposedly ‘love’ to make them feel like they are never ‘heard’?

Pretty demeaning, as my wife has often forced me to see.

How demeaning is it to Self to not allow one’s self to listen...?

Not demeaning at all. It is however cheating yourself out of a fuller participation in your own humanity.

So now that I’ve had a few months to work on Self concerning this matter I find things going to a much better place and I think I really do have something to offer others.

A very tough and humiliating lesson to learn, but one I know I have truly taken to heart and hopefully will never back slide into again. Thanks for “listening” y’all and Blessings be to each of you.

I am glad for you Al. .. and even more glad for your wife! Edited September 2, 2009 by Hexalpa

[nestingwave]

'The trial of your faith is more precious than gold which perishes."

Namaste

[Atwater Vitki]

Thank you, I appreciate each of your very encouraging and well thought responses. It means the world to me, and Kay, to know there are those who take the time to LISTEN! Blessings of Peace, Light and Tranquility, RevAl