Jonathan H. B. Lobl

An addendum: Over time, you have demonstrated to me, that when Atheists speak -- You have a profound ability to misunderstand. I question your interpretation of "some Atheists claim". Perhaps in time, you will be able to hear what Atheists actually say -- unfiltered through your belief system. Based on your past statements, I have low expectation.

My point, exactly. Except for the distinction? That's an important distinction and a big error.

I read the article. First, Anthony Flew did not become a Christian. He became a Deist. Deism has nothing to do with Jesus. Deism does not accept Scripture or any other form of revelation, as true. Neither do Deists pray. Deism accepts that a God started things going; then left Creation to continue on it's own. It's not Atheism, but it's very close. Second, the article misrepresents Atheism. "This evidence, or proofs, for the existence of God invites those atheists to consider it – especially for those who claim that there is none. At the very least it should be reasonably concluded that atheism (the absolute claim that there is no God after considering all possible knowledge) is a highly irrational position." As to the Five Proofs -- the usual. Yet again.

Don't forget the translation errors. The question remains. Does any of it actually matter? Life is too short to worry about some bad reading.

All true. Then again, we are speaking of a fictional character, in a poorly written series of books. Worse, various unknown authors, have added their own fan fiction to the mess. Does any of it actually matter? I mean, it's fiction. Not even good fiction. IMO

Assumption. Such a sad word.

No need to be timid. It is a faulty assumption.

Yes. Silly, isn't it?'' Welcome to the board.

What???

I give up. I'm throwing in the towel. It hurts too much. 🏳️

Just so. Continuing would be pointless.

We can also go with Voltaire. "The purpose of religion, is to keep the servants from stealing the silverware."

Dan's religion is one of many. What are the odds that Dan has the right religion -- and all the other religions are wrong? They can't all be right. They can all be wrong. Do I really want to waste the only life that I can be sure of? On my knees, praying to an improbable God? Studying ancient Scriptures, produced by people, who knew way less than I do? We are indeed surrounded by lies, deception and corruption. Including pious fraud and fantasy. That is why evidence is so important. Or we become ready victim, to every fraud, huckster, cheat, scam artist and humbug, to come along. When confronted by a wizard, it is good to look behind the curtain. Sometimes, it's just a humbug. Or a sincere believer, who swallowed it all. Hook, line and sinker.

A thought experiment. Consider Dan's perspective. Suppose Dan's faith -- his seamless faith -- were to fail him. What would happen next? Dan would face the big B-B-Q along with us. No more cotton candy Heaven. Just -- dead. Maybe even getting left behind in the Rapture. Even worse. Facing down all those lectures he gave about faith and trust. What are facts or reason, next to that level of terror?

Uh-huh.

I will speak more plainly. I'm bored with Fundamentalist BS propaganda. These smug, condescending claims, to be the sole arbiters of truth and fact, are irritating. This is usually where you tell me that I hate God. Or Christianity. Or Scripture.

Exodus and Passover https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-exodus-effect/?utm_source=mjl_maropost&utm_campaign=MJL&utm_medium=email&mpweb=1161-10420-232960

Just so. "Wars and rumors of war" with fires and floods.

Yet again, we have a Christian, declaring what the Jewish Scriptures really mean. Well, I'm bored.

That was Jewish Scripture, long before it was Christian. No rabbi, would agree with your interpretation. So no. It's not solid evidence. Either God is authoring confusion; or God had nothing to do with it. There is another possibility. The Jewish interpretation is correct and you are confused. Did God mean it to be confusing? Then it's not reliable. Certainly, the perfect mind could have authored something, that was not confusing. Did God have nothing to do with it? Then even less is it evidence. Is the Jewish interpretation correct? Then you are seriously mistaken, about a great many things.

It's a miserable bit of evidence when believing Jews; believing Christians; and Atheists, all look at the same passage and see something different. It would seem that God is "the author of confusion". Or it's crap evidence for being false. Which do you prefer? Enough evidence for many? The truth is not a popularity contest. Important truth should have solid evidence. Perhaps the Human scribe, did a poor job taking dictation? Happy Easter.

Atheist Arguments

My background is Jewish. I went through a period in my life, when my religious involvement was strong. Prayer and study. I had a circle of Hassidic friends. Well, things change. I did.

Yes. Of course. A typical bully. He can dish out the abuse, but he can't take it. Of course, he speaks for God. He's God's representative. That's why we must have respect for the chosen messenger -- and his artistic style of delivery.