Jonathan H. B. Lobl

The Norse Hel is only a place for the dead. It is not the Christian Hell -- which is the place of eternal torment.

I have only done a little reading of the Koran. Hell is a prominent feature. In particular, for the unbeliever.

Fair enough. I think we are more in agreement than disagreement.

The old lyer's paradox. "Everything I say is a lie. You can believe that."

I never really understood the whole Shrodinger's cat thing. To my understanding, the correct answer is simply -- we don't know if the cat is alive or dead. The cat can not be alive and dead. We don't know which is the case. Only that it can not be both at the same time. In the same way, it is possible to not know if something is absolute -- because we don't know. It is odd, that people insist on having a definitive answer, without regard to it being true or not. As in -- if there's no God, then how come _____________ ?

There is frequently an exception. I don't want to say always. Frequently. For instance, the speed of light. The speed of light is an absolute. Except for quantum entanglement; which Einstein called "spooky action at a distance". If even the speed of light has an exception -- how many absolutes are there? Maybe death. Even then, there might be disagreement. That time seems to move in only one direction? Maybe. Unless it doesn't and we don't know about it.

Seriously, outside of physics -- even then -- how often are absolutes true?

Are you sure? That sounds like an absolute.

It's interesting. I'm not able to say how valid it is.

Putting the hat on the statue was kind. It was an attempt at humor. In this case, "spreading Christmas cheer" is clearly part of kindness. At least as defined by main stream culture.

The arbitrary rules I'm speaking of -- are God's Commandments. Also, the theology derived from the Bible, the Koran, the Hadith and Talmud. Defenders of these rules like to call them "objective".

If you want to bring in standards -- how about if it is based on reality? Reality is not perfect or horrible. It is. When we try to live by arbitrary rules -- based on fantasy -- then things get confusing.

It depends on the standard. If going pro is all that matters -- and anything short of perfection is failure -- then it does not make sense to do your best. Such is the trap of impossible standards. A religious code that makes people feel bad and guilty and unworthy is a mistake. IMO

If I throw a brick through your window -- and God forgives me -- Your window is still broken. Whether or not you forgive me, is a separate issue. God forgiving my crime is not important. Only your forgiveness matters. For your own sake.

Did you ever look into clergy malpractice insurance? I looked into it, maybe 20 years ago. I was told it was only for clergy with a master's degree. I did not mention my D.D. from ULC. They declined me. I did not look further.

Don't forget -- "The Devil made me do it."

No? God forgives. Even the crimes against others. It's a miserable doctrine.

We have both had these discussions on this board. Challenged to provide examples of bad Christian behavior -- we were then told that those people were not "real" Christians. You know the drill. When Atheists do something wrong, it's because they're Atheists. When Muslims do something wrong, it's because they have the wrong Book. Or the wrong God. When Christians do the wrong thing -- either they were not "true" Christians -- or they were not perfect because nobody is. I am so tired of this double standard.

I don't know how to respond to your aphorism. What's the question?

If I am going to be mistaken about my ability, I will err on the side of caution. If I am speaking as a minister, and I find that the person who has come to me for assistance, needs help that I can't provide -- I would be an idiot to continue and hope that I can muddle through. I also practice Reiki. When a young man came to me, requesting a neck adjustment -- I had to tell him that I don't perform Chiropractic procedures. I declined his request. Both as a minister and as a reiki practitioner; I have a scope of practice. I know where my lines are and I don't cross them. I'm not a Chiropractor and I'm not a Psychologist.

People see the doctrines -- and the examples -- for which they have a harmonic vibration. Like a tuning fork. Some things speak to them. Others don't.

I have never seen anything good, come from arguing over who is a true Christian. I do observe the people who claim the label. Some are wonderful people. Some behave like monsters. Note please. I said "behave" like monsters. Not that they "are" monsters. A moot point for those being dragged through the courts, on trumped up charges.

I've actually been there. Someone came to me for counseling. I had to state clearly, that I was not qualified to provide the needed guidance. I can tell when I'm out of my depth. It's not difficult. What is difficult, for me, is to knowingly engage in malpractice. Like pushing on, when I know better.

There are ministers, who will tell the battered woman, to stay by her marriage vows, no matter what. Sometimes, the clergy should be consulted last.

Is it sad? Or is it instructive? You are not disputing the basic statement. Over the years, this board has provided examples.