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  2. I followed your link. "Idolatry was rampant in Israel during the days of the prophet Elisha, and paganism influenced young and old alike." You have forgotten that this is an Interfaith board, with a Pagan membership.
  3. Today
  4. Its just the 'feeling' I get from these guys, it stems from the constant objections about a God who punishes disobedience. I don't believe they believe in discipline, or at least any form of corporal punishment. You answered your own question above, as you would consider interfering with a parent who 'taps' (not beats) a spoiled and out of control kid in a store in order to straighten them out because you thought they were being too strict.
  5. You don't need to stay biblically illiterate, consider doing some research and looking it up yourself.. Perhaps you don't have a good Hebrew to English concordance? Learning sometimes requires a little effort;
  6. You are making this very easy for me. When the existence of a god -- or God -- is not detectable -- then it makes no difference at all. When a god seems to not exist -- whether it exists or not -- it changes nothing. There is no practical difference between a god -- which has no existence -- and a god that conceals it's existence. On a side note -- Christians claim that their God wants a personal relationship with us. To then suggest that this God is hiding from us -- Well. This is a disturbed God with issues. Here is a thought experiment for you: Pretend that God exists. What changes? Nothing. Pretend that God does not exist. What changes? Nothing. When nothing changes either way -- So what? A brief rundown on how this fits the basic labels: The Atheist does not believe -- because there is no reason to believe. At least, no good reason. The Agnostic does not know if a certain god exists. Or wee folk. Or fairies. Or brownies. Or elves....... The Apatheist does not care because -- so what? Try not to let other people make you crazy. Life is too short to take on their crap.
  7. Of course, someone with an extremely conservative view would make such an assumption to ask this question? Shame on you. I imagine that depends on the "tap" being given, wouldn't you? Remember the "taking care in disciplining"? There is care, then there is abuse. The line is where the amount of force lies. No?
  8. Further query, what if any deity that could be proven to exist, doesn't care to be proven to exist? Or even, would rather not be proven to exist?
  9. Yesterday
  10. When a mind is enslaved by faith -- and bound by the chains of belief -- It is silly to expect reason. You are asking more than Dan can do. It won't happen. Neither facts, nor reason, nor reality will penetrate. I understand your frustration. You think that if you're patient -- if you present the right combination of facts and reason, that reality will win out. No. It won't. Dan cares about faith and belief. Facts and reality bounce off him without effect. Your logic will fail to penetrate. Let it go. There is nothing to gain. It's Dan. It doesn't matter. It's Dan.
  11. When a person can argue"little children" into young men, they really don't need a book anymore. Might as well just admit to making it up.
  12. A stiff mind, produced by a stiff culture. It's no use demanding mental dexterity. It's beyond him.
  13. Last week
  14. You have come upon a great truth. Monotheists get all hot and bothered, by the suggestion that their God might not exist. They can't define their God -- but of course -- their God exists. When they argue with Atheists, they can't even say which God they are arguing over. The exception is when they stipulate the God of the Bible. Then it's -- that God. I have not had this discussion with Pagans.
  15. Everyone judges the moral standards of others, I just don't believe I have a right to judge God's standards.. As I explained, The KJ and other bible versions have some translation errors where its necessary to transliterate what was being expressed in the original language. In this passage its logical to presume that "naar" is referencing young adults. Its not changing the words of the bible as much as getting an accurate definition of a word that has also been used in reference to young men. Blasphemy is; "The act or offense of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk". Sacred things would be specific to what God anointed for His purpose (prophets, kings, etc), this would exclude your average guy walking down the street. Consider for a moment that God does know more than you, whereby God does know better than us. The older boys or young men mocking the prophet were obviously Hebrew and had previous knowledge of Elijah's ascent into heaven, which is why they were teasing Elisha to do likewise.
  16. I think it's obvious, that the people who wrote the books of the Bible, projected their own minds onto God. A brutal and unjust culture will give rise to a brutal and unjust God. For the rest -- calm yourself. It's Dan. He has limits. Think of it as a form of hysterical blindness. He can not see anything that goes against his belief in God or Scripture. This is what happens when faith is elevated above all else. He's not being stupid. He's not being crazy. He's blind. We have to make allowances. Reason will not prevail.
  17. 2 Kings 2:23-24 King James Version (KJV) 23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. Little children...the kjv you use dan. It doesnt say young men. It doesnt specify they knew he was a prophet. It says he cursed them in the name of the lord who sent bears. Is it blasphemy to mock a guy walking down the street, when there isnt knowledge of his protected status? Even if it is, god is supposed to be more advanced than i am. I certainly know its wrong to maul 'little children'(quit paraphrasing to suit dan, changing the words of the bible could be blasphemy)...god should know better.
  18. Yep. You clearly have no right to judge anyone else's moral standards.
  19. In your extremely liberal mind-set, do you believe anyone should ever be accountable for anything? I get the feeling that if any of you guys ever saw a parent tap an unruly child on the rear-end for acting up in a store, you'd be on your cell phone in a second with 911 to report what you consider extreme abuse? "And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death." (Leviticus 24:16) .. So considering the law, those young men who were mauled got off easy.
  20. Years ago, I attended a lecture on Medicine Buddha. The monk -- Kedem Morton -- said -- "The gods are illusory. But if we call upon them for assistance, they will help us anyway."
  21. I only imagine Zeus waking up after a few thousand years and coming back to see if his faithful deserve reward...
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