Ulc Not Recognized In Va

[Someguitarist]

I don't mind trying to fight it, but I work ~60 hours a week and I'm trying to complete my PhD. I don't exactly have a lot of free time, or money, to really fight that hard.

This is a lot of good information though, but to put it simply; What do I do from here? What is you all's recommended next step?

Thanks for the help!

[kokigami]

well, try a minor fight. commune with us, and bring a copy of a discussion thread in which you take part. Or, tell them you commune telepathically with other members. See if they are willing to fight that..

[revjerry]

You have a congregation, the couples who requested you marry them makes 4 people in your congregation. You have a church, you meet in your home, their home, the local Starbucks. Very few states have laws regulating a minimum size of congregations, nor do they require meetings be in a formal church building. Doing so would be a violation of your rights and this has been through the courts many times.

I went through this with Oregon many years ago. May your congregation be blessed.

[Br. Josef]

I have traded emails with what seems to be the most outspoken Circuit Court Clerk in this matter. The AG has not made an official statement. The AG's office has had a lessor employee make a statement based on Cramer vs Cramer 1974 and this is what they are saying is the official statement. In this statement which I do not have a available on my laptop (I will locate and post a link for sometime this weekend). In this letter to the County Clerk in question the writer even states that his statement is not from the AG but by him a member of his staff.

That said there is no law at the moment that specifically bans mail order or online ordinations from being recognized. The Clerks have been allowed to refuse recognition of ministers that have been ordained online or by mail.

I have personally suggested that those looking to be wed by family or nontraditional clergy go to a neighboring state and have the legal portion of the wedding performed out of state.

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney and this should not be taken as final legal advice but as a personal and private suggestion of a path to more information.

[Br. Josef]

I sent MD Taylor the PDF of the more recent AG offices responce to this issue... Dealing primarily with a request from the Monastery for a statement as to why the County in question and the state as a whole was refusing to recognise the ministers there.

It is my humble (non legal) advice to start suggesting to those who want to be wed by family to take a drive to a near by state and perform the legal portion of the wedding outside of the state. This will effect the revenue in the state only slightly but the number of weddings will be potentially reduced making those in power take note. Additionally, the state has no juristition over a churches right to perform a religious sacrement and as such the full wedding ceremony may be done in state with out the legal portion being done at the same time. There are at least three nearby states that would love to have a couple buy their licences for a civil union from them instead of Virginia.

If you do a religious ceremony for a couple remember to leave out the line "by the state of..." since they don't have the authority to say one way or the other as you bestowe the religious sacrement on a couple.

[Dorian Gray]

Josef, that could get you in legal hot water since as far as the state is concerned marriage is a civil matter. If you preform a wedding without a valid marriage linsense and the legal authority to solemnize a marriage you are generally breaking a law.

[kokigami]

Josef, that could get you in legal hot water since as far as the state is concerned marriage is a civil matter. If you preform a wedding without a valid marriage linsense and the legal authority to solemnize a marriage you are generally breaking a law.

meh..

if they follow his formula.. marry next state by law, marry in state by church.. the courts would feel pretty foolish trying to prosecute anyone for improperly solemnizing the nuptials of a previously legally wed couple. But it doesn't actually move to fix the problem.

VA ULC ministers need to unite, and form a plan, and challenge this in court. Any lesser response is accepting that the state may regulate the definition of religious actions to the citizens. They might want to ally with ministers of the COAW, the pastafarians, the dystopians, the subgenii, etc. People who find the absurd a comfortable place to play.

edited for readability (added paras..)

Edited April 21, 2012 by kokigami

[revjerry]

Long ago and far away, I had a similar situation with Oregon. At that time (This was right after Kirby Hensley's passing) there was a feisty ULC minister in Arizona. (Now retired) Anyway he worked out an agreement. Oregon agreed I was a legal minister qualified to perform marriages. I have a letter attesting to that filed away. In return, the man in AZ agreed that he would not sue Oregon halfway to Mars.

For every problem there is a solution.

[mitchc]

Another option is becoming a Justice of the Peace or I think there is a way to get a Marriage Officiant license. Not sure, but you could look these options up.

[kokigami]

if any one wants to help deal with this.. the last bit here seems to be a call to organize.