VonNoble

Contentment might be as elusive as wealth. Is there something specific you can do (or stop doing ) to make your life more balanced or contented? Whatever it is...can you name it? ...does the obstacle preventing you or blocking you....does the pause button ....have a name? (funds....wealth....too much ambition...to little....low self esteem....over confidence) i am am wondering if there is are one or two roadblocks many of us have in common? Just a curiosity question von

oh no... von

....providing whatever is handy...is stronger than the nail? von

I think I like your grandma. Does she bake pie? Had to ask... some grannies are pretty wise. They always get my full attention when the bribe me with home-made pie. Your spin on granny’s outlook put a good spin on it. von

Drat! I’ll settle for speeding to the exit ramp on this class. They do not have to give me the $200 bucks when I pass “go” I am toying getting another degree. I believe I have enough credits to roll me back in as a junior or senior .... I might have to check on that. we can safely assume I will NOT. Major in philosophy von

Interesting notation. Access to shelter.... mobility to exit in advance of disaster.... we rambled all over the place. AT LEAST we had all team members engaged this time.....THAT ALONE was progress. von

Merriment is good!

I presume this very enthused professor is fully aware on a room full of newbies ....that none of us would remotely catch structure issues. A third of our group is worried about this class as they are scholarship recipients and unlike their other classes related to their major(where they are far more comfortable and interested) .... this classes had them anxious. Another third is reasonably assured of passing with a “c” or higher and not too concerned (serious whatever attitude).... and rest are VERY lost. None of us ever considered the work problems were “engineered” for a stacked deck. We pretty much are just racing the clock with any answer right now .... deep think is not happening for any of us thanks for the thought .... maybe by June we will have mastered which way is up... von

What a GREAT belly laugh this morning! THANKS! I fear you are exactly correct von

I rather enjoyed your support of the beauty and money issues. Since we had to keep the components universal....we could not come up with any place risk free of environmental issues.... so shelter got put in and taken off the list a couple of times.... your wider view is helpful. Next class all of the groups will have to merge our lists into one perfect list. I am sort of wondering what the entire class together voted for.... what did the larger group of 20-something’s decide... von

....oh....I forgot pie ! von

Thanks for the candor. I really liked the Spock quote. The group did add morality as a a critical component. (And quoted Yoda from Star Wars).....it was something about “the forces” and avoiding the temptation of the dark side. That was as close as we got for spirituality as a component. i was surprised food, shelter, and beauty did not make the list. I argued for beauty but it was not in the majority. I argued hard against money....and we dropped it but not till the last ten minutes. von

I gotta say I am not enjoying this class as much as I had hoped. The group got pretty bogged down on “freedom”.... half the group was adamant that is one of the components. But they struggled to give a concrete reason. The majority vote narrowed it to free will instead. The one one I did not expect was “ a sense of humor”.... von

If anyone wants to join in.... my philosophy class team completed the following today. It took 80 minutes.... we were the second to last group to finish. List at at least eight (no more than ten) components that comprise a “good life” Every component you list must be justified by at least two reasons why it is necessary for a good life. The components you select are not unique to any country or culture. Anyone care to jump in and name one or two....and why (the sample provided listed education as a component.... my group did not accept that as valid) von

I am okay with all of that thanks. It just seemed for awhile in this thread that there were absolutes eluding me. I am okay with not having an answer for every question. Thanks for taking the time to respond. von

Okay...simply put... two questions 1. Is free will a state of mind or a physical option or other 2). If we are born with free will in a nutshell when is our situation “not” free will I lied)....sorry ... there is a third question.......if it boils down to choices-what happens when you can’t find one? von

Ah! The example helped me to understand the point. Thank you. von

This is my question too. I do not yet have an anwser. If I am forced to live did I I’d do I have free will choice? von

So free will is mental not physical? We can think freely but not act freely? von

It seems some of the Jewish women were herded into concentration camps (so free will to survive kicked in enough they chose not get shot getting on the trains to the camps) (they did not know what they faced or in some cases even that they were going to camps.) Once they arrived at the camps. ....some of them (a few) were impregnated solely for the purpose of experimentation. They were never going to be allowed to carry their "Jew-blood babies) to term. These women were raped.....and once deemed to be pregnant ....some tied into beds - if necessary force fed....and poked and prodded all the way to full term.) Once these forced to term women went into labor - a fully developed child tried to emerge as nature intended. A fully developed human might be endowed with free-will.... a biologically an emerging infant is fully human by most definitions - (so there is a question of free will and would exist at this stage of development)...back to the facts - so here this kid is - finding its way to the air-breathing world. One of the many horrors these woman were restrained (physically) - so that the baby could NOT emerge. It would not and could not be permitted to exit.....ending in the death of both mother and child. For hours (noted by the doctors watching the experiment) - for hours on occasion - the mothers struggled against the restraints to force an opening wide enough of the child to emerge. For hours sometimes the infants struggle to be free of the mother's body. All observers kept notes.....and watched the two struggling. Now there are far fewer instinctive responses stronger than birthing of a child. Both bodies were physically denied a choice. Both died fighting for life. A life not conceived freely. A life forced into existence. A life nurtured for months to full development. Sometimes people try to die. Try to starve to death. Try to entice death to them. Try to force a shot to the head. And sometimes they are just forced to live. There is little free will in being FORCED to live. We do not allow anyone the right to die - in some cases now. In some cases in suburbia - we force people to live who freely choose to die. Does free will cease when you are FORCED to live? In the horror of the concentration camp....did either the mother or the child actually HAVE a choice to select that horrid death? Did they have free will to live? If you chose torture over death and they do a bit too much water boarding - although you are choosing to live and struggle to breath - did you have free will in choosing death? Some do...they gulp in the water to end the madness. But some fight to breath and cannot....and they die trying so hard to exercise their free will to LIVE....the one where they chose a life of torture ....which is clearly choosing life - but alas! They are killed by an over zealot torture person. Did they then have free will after all? von

Apparently I am not the only dunderhead in this class. They are pushing back the date on our next test. Lots of people are confused by...1) the formulas 2) the explanation (the lesson) 3)the prof wants to watch the Olympics and not do the test till the are over 4) OTHER I have no idea why but it gives me a couple more days to sort this out Score one for technology.... the decision was made over the weekend... and so we were not surprised by the change of scheduling. It was nice to have advanced warning allow everyone better use if their time. von

On a related note... I heard on the radio today a group of detainees is suing the United States for being used to do forced labor with no compensation. If the premise defines slavery as the determining factor upon which we are defined as morally flawed.... that is a twist for us in the here and now. Some would view forced labor without compensation as a form of slavery perhaps.... von

Interesting analysis.... thx von

Perhaps our class was flummoxed by the premise. I was. I am reasonably sure no one in the room supported slavery. The questioned was asking (at least to me) ....do I judge the entire culture as morally flawed solely on the issue of them permitting slavery? That I the only thing we know. We do not know who they enslave or why? We do not know the history or the possibility of eventual freedom options for said slaves. For all we know they were a gift enslaved and given by their own people. We do not know (for sure) if the treatment is humane. If life is even remotely better than what they left. We do not know what good this culture slaveholders offers.... we know nothing beyond this one fact. In this culture there exists a group not free. Why? We were being asked to judge a culture. (Not a country) in only one known fact. I am not sure one fact is enough to render judgement (for me)......that being said it might well be enough for another to come to a conclusion. I can see that worked too. Noting an entire group is morally flawed without knowing the reason why they chose this (to me offensive morally behavior )was difficult. I prefer to understand before assigning condemnation. This seemed to be true for for many in the class. Even when the action clearly violates our view of normal. i was sort of encouraged that many were trying to understand what would make anyone think such a thing is right.... von

THANKS!!!! At least I don’t feel like I am rowing alone... von