VonNoble

Is her selection of supreme being a generality .... is that why no caps? Has she changed this to challenge us defend an unknown &/ or defend having belief beyond reason and senses..... since we NOW have a changed perimeter.... is this even about the beliefs or rather about stating arguments and constructs? Best guess? von

UPDATE: Assignment has been revised. In my "school" email account I just received the following " ALERT" Your three choices (NOW) are as follows: Theist: holds that there are good reasons for thinking that a supreme being exists Atheist: holds that there are good reasons for thinking that no supreme being exists Agnostic: holds that reason cannot establish whether or not a supreme being exists; thus we cannot know whether or not God exists Ya think the prof had a slew of questions on this one or what? von

I have no idea what the prof meant inassigning “belief in God” as an option. I sort of assumed by the big G ... she was pointing to the Abrahamic Creator God (not too swift for any Wiccans in the room) ( or Hindus) ... or a myriad of others.... so it is likely I am not the only one being forced to just pick a label to get this assignment done.... when we finish this section we are moving to ethics... won’t that be fun von

I actually did look that up... thank you.... it is another “A” option ( outside of class) von

Dan 56... thank you for this...I agree. Is there a specific one thing you could do right now on that journey to make life more contented...happier....less frustrating? In general terms what you have said is true and I agree. On the journey we often, as you noted, have moments of restlessness, frustration, impatience... whatever. We all have low points. And we recover. Are some roadblocks more common by age? Gender? Is there a pattern of things we all learn to master but never share? Can we benefit from sharing actual victories? Can we be inspired by the victories of others? Not in general terms but by hearing specific lessons from others? At times in life by Noting a target out loud we automatically elicit the support from others Five years ago I really needed to lose weight....once I said it out loud - I found others generously allowed me to be a pain in the butt talking about it too much as I learned a newer approach....facing the need to make a change sort of took a village i felt much much better about myself as I gained health. I was less angry with myself about the many previous failures. I find now.... with reduced mobility I am going to have to do battle with that issue again. (I have gained back 20 pounds so the challenge begins anew) And I will need to add new tools to win again. I cannot burn off the same number of calories now.... my mobility is so restrictive.... so I have to monitor intake more closely. WAY more closely. Contented is currently a daily challenge as I learn to adapt. Increased physical pain is a daily challenge for me now too. Others are facing this. I am not a bit special. Others find ways to adapt and keep serenity intact. In fact EVERY ONE is facing roadblocks....and moving away from the dark side what are the common roadblock beating ideas? More contented is-perhaps a realization that we have enough? Or maybe it is the recognition our issue is not at all unique Does it boil down to appreciating all needs are met? Crabby is a choice? Lashing out a symptom of an emotion ...we could best deal with more effectively another way? i don’t know. I am trying to figure it out. I know there is lots of wisdom on this Forum. what are we doing to stay stuck in “unhappy? “ If we have what we need... why do we so often want more? if we know something is not good for us -why do we chase after it? The devil has a name. Naming it is a first step to slaying it. Maybe? Each sin has a name. The obstacle in our path has a time, place, trigger.... shape..... ignoring it perpetuates it maybe? Is it as simple as one tiny step? At some point for you ....it was accepting Christ fully. Is that still the complete and only answer or have you gained other insights to add to that? Is there today a practical one step to face one specific challenge? Not a generality but a specific thing that can help another slay a dragon? Prayer works. Meditation works. Finding more practical solutions (from others) sometimes works more immediately ) Drinking too much.... procrastinating too often.... whatever .... everyone is swimming toward happier... what is working? What are you doing or what do you refrain from doing? Thanks in advance for sharing what works... von

My genuine thanks to ALL for this assistance. It is odd to be looking at spiritual things through the lens of a courtroom-type objective argument. We are trying to defend-define-present a (widely agreed) unknown. However, I suspect the lesson is in the process more than the conclusion (but what do I know.) I am planning on working on this over the weekend. Assuming I have a decent first draft by Monday - I will have a week to tweak it before we go "live" in the classroom. Much to my surprise it seems LOTS of my classmates are working ahead on this one too. Unlike most assignments - there are more "already on this one now" ...than normal. Apparently I am not the only one to find the idea of a spiritual belief in a clinical setting to be a bit of a challenge. von

Thank you for being willing to assist. I guess if they give me a choice - I am going to pick the two "A" choices because they seem the most familiar to me. If they do not - I will DEFINITELY need a crash course to make sure I present the "belief in God" position solidly. Not that I would not be able to come up with at least a starting point .....but the construction tools I might have already could surely use bolstering. Thanks for being willing to pitch in. von

Dan56 - THANKS for the neutral and objective input. Very much appreciated. I am sort of leaning that way too. Your point of view is sort of where I am landing on this assignment too. I didn't initially, but it is becoming more clear to me that personal beliefs are gonna play second fiddle to get through the assignment as conflict free in class as possible. It is an exercise in thinking (lol) - not belief. Strange though that may be. They are NOT exclusive...but the grade is definitely going to be assigned on what I present being valid (as in fits the box for FORMAT)....it is not so much about content... if that makes any sense. Or at least I think that is how it is going to shake out. I can see why this subject is challenging. I suspect what we think we know arriving to this class is sort of put into a blender and you have to build a ladder via a new way of seeing the top... to get out of it alive (I am sort of kidding) ...... This thing creates a new point of view - not better or worse - just different than the skill set I learned at home.... the input on this thread is helping. It feels safe to express doubt/uncertainty here - For which I am very grateful. von

I wish you had written our text book. You zeroed in on the very point I guess it was trying to make - I all I saw were two statements in conflict.....you did a nice job of knitting together relevance. Thank you. I am actually doing better in the Epistemology section - that is not to say I am breezing through it - - -- but other than this strangely worded section - I think I got the rest of the chapter at least without breaking into a cold sweat when I open the book. thx again, von

Good suggestion - I made a date with myself to check out those things this weekend.....allow myself to digest whatever I see there ....then look at the tools provided (thanks to all for helping me have some tools) ....and see what seems to fit best. Since I have never really tried to stick myself with a label (I have actively avoided doing so) .....I am guessing your reasoning (supported by the comments of others) definitely have me seeing Agnostic in a new light. Which is a good thing. Learning is a good thing. von

I am SURE you are correct! Plenty of quick fire opinions in this class. Yes...thanks.... I agree the 2nd round will be less intense to prepare. I am assuming we -get to pick - which of the remaining two we tackle second. Either way -competent note taking in round one will make the construct in round two easier. i am sort of looking at this in terms that the exercise is learning to craft a solid argument more than explains my personal beliefs.... Several of the students are in this class as pre-law requirement so if we focus on the construction (more than the faith) (or lack of it) we might master craftsmanship in some small way. Then again this is my first time thru it so maybe you are suppose to get more passionate & invested with the rightness of your belief. i have not yet found a reason why God existing (or not) mattered to me. So I think all the fuss to prove it disprove is largely wasted energy (but it does make for a good and emotionally charged practice session) After following this topic on other threads I guess atheist is as close an approximation as I can get in these three choices. I agree we cannot know, so that allows for either of the “A” options .... I am going to try to do both and see if one is more comfortable than the other while drafting this. von

If you are willing to assist yet again..... These two statements from our text have me flummoxed. 1. Believing is necessary for knowing something is true. 2. Knowledge presupposes belief. Aren’t these two “givens” sort of at odds ? i am am going to reserve seats in the front row @ graduation for FORUM members if I opt to go for another degree... von

I am very grateful for the assistance!!!! i am also thankful ....I did not wait to start developing a position. This is the first assignment that I can appreciate .... where I will have to really think through the variables (rather that regurgitate rote info) or formulas if little value outside of the field of Philosophy. Not useless in any way... just not as applicable in my life at this juncture. Knowing (sort of) the constructs (basic) of argument ..... there is FAR mor practical information here.... to help me build a position I can present with some degree of confidence. As an aside I was advised NOT TO seek help from our assigned tutor.... someone who is a Philosophy major suggested I might not get neutral advise as the tutor has a low opinion of atheist positions. Making me double thankful I had a safe place to explore this aspect of class. All of you assisting me should double your hourly rates (Seriouly thank you.... it is less about the grade and more about just wanting to do a decent construct...you know ....like not embarrass myself.) von

Are happy and contented the same thing? maybe they are....I didn’t look it up My fault for failing to do so I always associated “happy” with happily ever after..... zero problems .... as in fairy tale-ish Contented...a bit more realistic....as in less than you can dream up .... appreciating that you have enough to be satisfied so maybe I need to check out my own understanding if those words von

ALL OF THIS IS VERY HELPFUL....and lowering my apprehension in preparing for this assignment. We have some time befor it is due so I wanted to avoid engaging in as much friction as possible. Setting perimeters that we’re not flimsy seemed daunting....far less so now...so again, my thanks von

We agree.... love it when that is part of a Thread Facing obstacles is inevitable Even though each of is chooses our own weapon/way to work around them.... I am wondering if we have only a handful (or less) of obstacles once named. Does it boil down, in our personal life to two or three? Are we collectively less content than we aspire to be because (as noted above) by desire? What we desire may be known by different labels (money, shelter, freedom etc) ....but the big label is “desire” I suggested another might be fear. i am wondering if several people pick a label... would it amount to only three? Four? if there is commonality.... would the solutions also share commonality? Von

That was my first reaction to Agnostic as well... it seemed to open me up as a target to both of the other two positions.... do not a strategic high ground.... I am wondering if using it for the second round will give me a better insight how to manage the i can’t decide snowball. Von

I do appreciate the homework assist-BIG TIME -on this one. I think your definition for atheist will help to avoid much of the muck.... so thank you for that too. Agnostic..... is the potential complication in a murkey definition or is there some other issue I should include I. My opening perimeter to avoid messiness? von

For my intro to Philosophy class each student must write an agrument supporting one of the following three choices: 1. Belief in existence of God 2. Being Agnostic 3. Being atheist Those are the only choices. You have to select one of those options. Our supporting “evidence” will in some fashion or other be dissected in class (I am assuming like minded students will be grouped to “defend-explain” their position.) I peeked ahead to the assignment following this one....where we will be assigned to take one of the other two options and repeat the exercise. So anyway we go ...we will need to “defend” two out of three positions. Since none these necessarily are my belief.... which two would you strategically select.... I am thinking the first round pick will garner the most lively exchange? Which would you pick for the first round draft? I am am leaning towards atheist.... but not sure I wanna be that busy in class discussion....this is not a moment I expect to foster lots of positivity (I might be surprised) Which is the easiest? Your prediction? Withdrawing from class or calling in sick that day are not options. von

In general terms that is so. But identical circumstances net widely different results at that fork in the road. Our reaction to it (benefit or problem) ..... and the subsequent action (or lack of action) are influenced greatly by our character.... priorities etc...... maybe..... von

I would agree...although as such....it is known by many names more than likely von

Thank you for this von

Fear. When I was young - I lived more boldly, championed more quickly, dared more often.... i was told back back then with age; comes wisdom. i am seeing if there is any wisdom... so too there is far more hesitancy, reduced confidence and fear in general. Not fear of death. Not fear of protecting possessions. Fear of of becoming useless....fear of being a burden. It is no longer how do I acquire... stuff is of little import.....now it is caring about retaining independence....relevance etc. Maybe that is unique to me...I don’t know -I don-t recall it coming up much in daily chit chat with others. von

You have a balanced point of view. I admire that. Too, being in a possibly similar situation, you also have my empathy. Empathy does not solve health issues.... but it also staves off moments when health issues with someone you love - can make one feel inevitably.... momentarily.....isolated. von