Gnostic Bishop
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Posts posted by Gnostic Bishop
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3 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
That is not where I was going. The world has had enough attacking. What we have to do is -- stop. Just stop. No more attacking and no more persecutions. No more attacking people for what they believe. No more attacks for what people don't believe. Just stop. We need to take a few deep breaths and let it go.
As for killing Yahweh and Allah -- No. We can not kill an idea. What we can do is stop feeding the idea -- much like not feeding a fire. The Gods will die, only if we stop feeding them. Religion thrives on persecution. Your way will keep them alive forever. A man who spends his life fighting evil will never have peace. Will never focus on the Good.
This is a basic component of reality, embodied in physics. "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."
What we don't need is an endless war between the forces of religion and anti-religion. It is hard to let go of anger. It is hard to let go of self righteous rage. It is hard to let go of resentment. Just let it go.
There is no killing of the Gods. Focus on reality. They will fade away, if we let them.
So we should just ignore Honor killing, FGM and men selling their children as child brides or stoning gays and fornicators.
No thanks.
For evil to grow, all we need do is ignore the fire and let it grow. Sure it will eventually die but might take a lot of cities with it as it leaves.
Regards
DL
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3 hours ago, cuchulain said:
Whether one has cause to bash and flame, and whether one should engage in such activity...there is a difference. A person may have cause, but should rise above. That is simply my opinion.
??
So if you see your neighbor beating his wife and kids, and you think you should bash and flame such activity, would you rise above criticizing it and just walk away?
What if he is a pedophile about to do some kid?
Regards
DL
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3 hours ago, cuchulain said:
As much as morality is subjective and not objective, yes.
Is, --- the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, --- subjective or objective?
It is the only moral tenant that I have yet to put into the subjective category.
Regards
DL
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11 hours ago, Rev Linda Hourihan said:
Hello DL ~ Thank you, first of all, for calling my own words to my attention. You are right when you say that slave owners own people. So, God does not "own" me, nor am I "possessed" by God, since we all have free will. I think you and I might be closer in understanding "God," than you might first realize. Yes, I am a Christian. However, I think it is very important to read ALL the things that Jesus said, not just what men in 381 AD at the Council of Constantinople wanted people to read and believe, in the traditional Bible. I am referring to the Nag Hammadi Scriptures, which are just as expansive and thick as the regular Bible, if not more.
When you read the Secret Book of John, for example, it describes how "God," as in the "Mother/Father of Jesus," created more than Jesus. It describes how "Sophia" (Wisdom) was also created when Jesus (Love) was created. All creation was intended to be created through Sophia and Jesus (Wisdom AND Love) together. However, this account says that Sophia creates on her own. She spawns a serpent with the head of a lion, and casts this creature away from her. The Secret Book of John, and other Nag Hammadi Scriptures (considered inspired in 381 AD, then uninspired after that, then burned and hidden) call this creation "Yaldaboath." It says that this "God," is the one who created mankind, not "God," the Father/Mother" who created Jesus. Jesus comes to earth, saying "my Father is not your Father, but my Father will be a Father to you."
I think if we live by the Golden Rule and the loving - forgiving words of Jesus, not the murdering "God" of the Old Testament, we will be far better off. In the Nag Hammadi scriptures, "Yaldaboath" looks around, not seeing any other "God," since he has been caste down, creates mankind and says, filled with extreme ego, "I am the Lord they God. Thor shall not have any "God's" before Me. This was very interesting to discover, and might address some of the issues you mention. I think "God," as in the Mother/Father of Jesus, had compassion on humans and sent us his only begotten Son, to free our souls and spirits, knowing that we are made in the image and likeness of the Father of Jesus, since at least, in part, so was "Yaldaboath (Yahweh, Jehovah)," if there is such a thing as divine DNA. I also think that the sin in the Garden of Eden was not Eve eating an apple. I think it is exactly what the Bible says in Genesis 6, that the sons of God mated with the daughters of men. I think the "Tree of Knowledge," is symbolic for the "knowledge" of the angels. The Old Testament words "to know someone," is to have intimate relations, or sex, with them. Makes sense to me.
In Revelation, when Michael the archangel wars with Satan and his angels, he casts them down to the vicinity of the earth. From that point on, these fallen angels may not ever enter heaven again. Then they go mix their angel DNA with human DNA. I think this is the sin of the Garden of Eden. No wonder humans could not go to heaven after their deaths. They were part fallen angel! Of course Jesus, the pure, unmolested seed of the Mother/Father, was our only hope. By the way, this makes way more sense, to have the Father, Mother and Son, as opposed to Father, Son and some non-descript Spirit.
This is getting complicated, but I truly believe there is more to our Creation than the men of 381 AD wanted us to know. Rome wanted to take over the world power. What better way than to mate Politics and Religion? In a way, it worked. I am making my own study of all these Nag Hammadi Scriptures to see what else Jesus said that got so maligned by human pride and ego. It seems first of all, we may have a different Creator than we thought we did. Second, humans get messed with when the fallen angels come down and further mess with our DNA, and create the Nephilim. I know, I know ... the flood wipes them all out right? Wrong. I believe that Naamah, Noah's wife, is carrying Nephilim DNA in her blood line. She is the sister of Tubal-cain, and six generations away from Cain, who I believe was conceived by Eve and a fallen angel. I think this is how, in Numbers 11 (or is it 13?), when Joshua is sent with 10 spies to check out the Promised Land to see who was there. They come back and say the people were so big that they felt as if they were grasshoppers. If the flood wiped out all people, how else could they be there? After the flood, it is only Noah, his wife Naamah, and his sons and their wives on the ark (if it even happened that way) who populate the earth.
I just wrote a fiction book about all this which is at the publishers as we speak. It is supposed to come out in about 4-6 weeks or so. It's at the top of my mind. Anyway, that's what I came up with.
Peace,
Rev. Linda
"I am making my own study of all these Nag Hammadi Scriptures"
I am pleased that you will study our myths but if you cannot get the fact that they are myths out of your head and expect to find a supernatural god then you may as well just end your studies right now. You will be wasting your time and miss the main message that Jesus taught.
Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
You cannot be a brethren to a supernatural Jesus. You can only be a brethren to a natural man if you believe that you are in the image of Jesus.
1 Timothy 2:5-6
5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
Note --- Man Christ Jesus. Not God Christ Jesus.
Regards
DL
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3 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
Alas, yes. Deep cause.
My concern is that the world does not need a new ideological battleground for revenge and counter revenge. It is too easy to imagine a new anti-religion movement, when belief in God is regarded as a contagious mental pathology. I can imagine such a movement as State ideology. This would be an awful development.
Simple Atheism is no threat to anybody. Anti-theism is, by it's nature, reactive. The harder that believers push religion on the unwilling -- the more the unwilling and other disbelievers will push back. "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." It is the believers who are fueling and generating Anti-Theism. Such is the blindness of "faith."
Note please, that I make a strong distinction between non-belief and dis-belief. Non-belief is Atheism. A simple lack of belief. Disbelief is what the Anti-Theists have. It is a distinction that the faithful continue to get seriously wrong.
As a further clarification, I prefer the use of "Agnostic" as a self label. It is a fine nuance, but I like it. People are willing to kill because they "believe." Others are willing to kill because they "disbelieve." I never heard of anybody killing because "they didn't know." Agnosticism is about "not Knowing." It sidesteps the issue of "belief." It is possible to have a rational discussion about what we "know." About "belief," not so much.
Wise words and I agree that we have a deep cause (and purpose) in attacking the more vile parts of religions and their misogynous and homophobic gods.
If non-believers ignore those immoral gods and religions, then we forget that for that for evil to grow, all good men need do is nothing.
Good men will attack the immorality of the mainstream religions and try to kill Yahweh and Allah.
Regards
DL
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23 minutes ago, mererdog said:
Whether a thing is logical is a matter of opinion, not fact?
A logic trail is something that is followed to a logical conclusion. Such a trail always proves itself as a fact.
That is why religions hate it so much.
Martin Luther ----
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
Regards
DL
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On 19/07/2016 at 4:54 PM, lordie said:
Its been 2 years since I was on here , so I thought I will post about ,what I have seen in religious discrimination , since , I was flabbergasted at the uneducated people in real life ,that are christian but ridicule ,others because they are too stupid to. Google , I was shocked they promote. Education but not educating themselves . its a wonder how they can promote education ! , I know "not "all Christians are the same, but for those who bully witch wiccan and pagan ,and dance in church to recieve the holy spirit , reminds me of when I first learned about covens ,wiccan they dance , so my opinion to these Christians whom bully wiccan pagan witch , " don't call the kettle black ,while your black your self "
Peace
Lordie
You are basically speaking of low key and personal Inquisitions and Jihads.
Do not expect Inquisitions or Jihads to end until the immoral religions like Christianity and Islam are outlawed for their poor moral positions and tenets.
Regards
DL
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On 21/08/2016 at 4:23 AM, Rev Linda Hourihan said:
Yes, it is. I love the image that the church is under the sky, as well as transcends it. In 2 Corinthians 6:16, where it says, "For we are temples of the living God; as God said, "I will live in them, and move among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people." So beautiful.
Strange that you do not see that as Jesus and you both being above the pettiness that Yahweh is shown to have in scriptures.
Would you really want a genocidal son murdering Yahweh leading you?
I doubt it.
Regards
DL
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On 11/08/2016 at 2:33 PM, Rev Linda Hourihan said:
Thank you Key for your sweet words. But please only give the applause and bowing to God. I work by the loving grace of God, and do not want to take any accolades for myself that, I believe, belong to God. I have been away from the ULC ministry for three years. Your comments are encouraging to me. Thank You, and have a beautiful day!
You belong to god.
Slave owners own people.
Jesus did nit teach in temples primarily because his message was anti religion.
He said that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. It was just a man invented tool. From that, we can extrapolate Jesus saying that religions were made for man and not man for religions. From there we can see Jesus say that god were made for man and not man for a god.
God should thus worship man and not man worship a genocidal son murdering god. That is the message Jesus gives us when he took god's power over man away by taking the seat of power and judgement at the right hand of god.
Regards
DL
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On 22/08/2016 at 4:05 PM, mererdog said:
The problem with that is that what we think is coming after life is part of what shapes what we think qualifies as a better now- not only for ourselves, but for others. After all, if you are weighing temporary pains versus eternal torments, it may seem way more important to keep a man from sinning than to keep him from starving. Similarly, a man who worries about how he will be remembered might see a life without heroic risk as unworthy, while a man concerned he will never see his wife again after death may be averse to any risk to his life. And how many people can never be happy unless they think that, long after they have died, the children they raised will be happy?
At the same time, for a god to give infinite punishment for a finite deed would prove that that god was a vile demiurge who knew nothing of justice.
If a theist could see himself in heaven while his friends and family, or even his enemy in that type of hell forever, it would show just how vile and unforgiving he is also. Hardly a man of god that.
Regards
DL
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3 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
No harm done. We can do a little hair splitting. Atheism is a simple lack of belief. I think the word you had in mind was anti-theists. Very different. It's the antitheists that bash and flame.
Do you think that they have cause to bash and flame?
Regards
DL
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On 22/08/2016 at 0:05 PM, mererdog said:
No. And please note that no one said anything about God having needs except in order to attack the notion. It is a simple strawman.
My understanding is that putting God first means putting God's desires and commands (or at least assumed desires and commands) first.
One example would be someone who is starving but does not steal food because they believe God forbids stealing. In that sense, putting God first is basically just putting principle before expedience, which is something I try to do. Another example would be professing to be a Christian when doing so can get you killed. In that sense, it is a matter of having the courage of one's convictions- which I have trouble seeing as a flaw, in and of itself.
Do you see that quality of holding to ones convictions in all the victims of the various Inquisitions?
Seems that Christians of those days did not like that unless it matched their convictions.
Islam has that same mindset today.
Regards
DL
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On 19/08/2016 at 8:58 AM, mererdog said:
Many people from many different faiths claim there is no difference between putting people first and putting God first.
I think that art is an important resource and that funding from religious groups has made that resource available to a lot of people who would otherwise do without. My grandmother's explanation for why people should dress up for church was that people need to treat some things as special in order to feel that they are special themselves. I always liked that. While things like stained glass and walnut benches may seem frivolous, I think they help pull people out emotional ruts and inspire them to greater personal achievement. Things like the Sistine Chapel may be of no use to a starving man, but I think we need them if we want to build a world where no one starves...
Art is important, I agree, but you have forgotten the Pope that went about chopping the genitals from the many statues in the Vatican.
Seems not all Popes agree that art is important.
Strange though that Popes say that god is in heaven somewhere while their Michelangelo creation painting shows god to in in our right hemisphere of our brains just as Jesus indicated where god resided.
Regards
DL
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On 18/08/2016 at 2:59 PM, cuchulain said:
I believe we are all strong and weak in different areas, that those with strong minds should use those minds to help their communities, that those with strong backs should use those backs to help, that those with strong leadership ideas should use that, and so forth...to help their communities and each other. Because some people have weak minds, weak backs, weak leadership abilities, etc... I guess I view it much like a puzzle, where every piece has some part to play, even if that part is merely allowing themselves to be taken care of and increase someone else's empathy.
Well put.
That makes god, the most powerful of all, the worse slacker that there is.
That works for following the first commandment of putting no other name but god's as the greatest slacker of all.
Regards
DL
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1 minute ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
You are asking me if I believe that God is immoral. That seems a trick question. I would first need to believe that God is real.
I was mostly asking if the strong should serve and work for the weak or if the strong should expect the weak to sustain and work for them.
Regards
DL
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11 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
What an odd turn of phrase. "God's Master." It brings to mind the old joke of Jewish Atheism. "There is no God and we are his people."
That is odd only if you forget the term as above so below.
Who is said to be the stronger? Man or god?
Who in your family works for who? Do the strong work for the weak or do the weak work for the strong?
In my family the strong serve the weak and the weakest of us expect the strongest to work for them.
That is as it should be here below so if god does not follow that good moral position and would expect the weaker to serve the stronger, or us to serve him, then that shows just how immoral god is.
Do you agree?
Regards
DL
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On 04/08/2016 at 5:24 PM, cuchulain said:
Have you ever wondered how much better things might be if we started placing people before religion? I am not saying we should eliminate religion altogether, after all it's another part of the puzzle that makes us all different. But what if those churches out there that like to decorate with fancy stained glass windows and nice new chairs and pews on a regular basis, what if they spent that money as needed, but then helped those in need with it? What if those who are so against all religion in general took a little of the time they used to bash religion at a food bank instead, or some other charitable good cause?
Gnostic Christianity has always put man ahead of god.
It seems that without the lie of a supernatural god, people are not willing to have a man be god the way the ancients used to do.
The Jews have that view as well as their oral tradition can overrule the written Torah and god himself.
One of the Jesus' that the church did not silence tells us that that is the right way to think when he said, instead of stoning people on the Sabbath, that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath.
I read that as Jesus also saying that religions and gods were made for man and not man for religions as well.
Man has forgotten his rightful place as gods master.
Regards
DL
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On 02/06/2016 at 10:27 PM, scottedward said:
Extraordinary
Gnostic, for someone so anti-scripture, you're quite adept at sounding like an expert. i liked Richard's answer, personally. It was both open and clear-headed, and wouldn't you be just a little happier had all of us acted like that?
Absolutely. That is what Gnostic Christianity preaches.
In our own way of course.
As a Universalist and a free thinking religion, we can think no other way.
Regards
DL
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If you listen to these two presentations, you will find that most of us follow our family tradition, culture and customs and never really choose our Gods in a conscious way. That fact explains why so many theists are so ignorant of their own bible or holy books.
I was lucky that although born into Catholicism and going through some of the sacraments, my upbringing, or lack of it, produced a free thinker who actively chose to call myself and practice Gnostic Christianity.
Gnostic Christianity seems to suit my personality as well as it is the most moral tradition that I have yet to find and I think that religions should be all about our morals and not just the immoral inherited Gods, Yahweh and Allah, that most follow.
Regards
DL
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Indeed.
Regards
DL
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A great way to dodge question.
That is not what your scriptures say but ok.
Regards
DL
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3 hours ago, Rev Richard said:
As individuals we all choose our own path. Some find a need to worship weekly, monthly, much longer apart or perhaps not at all. What does draw people to worship is not only the strength they may get from the scriptures or sermons, but also from one another and maybe the companionship.
To me worship is not simply about giving praise, but being there for fellow humankind. It's like the question 'What is the church'. It may in its physical form be a structure, but in its existence is within each person. As an individual we are a church for the benefit of others.
As for places of worship, with no physical ULC church where I live, I am probably spiritually closest to the Unitarians who accept all beliefs and who have various groups such as a Peace Group. This being the case I offer Saturday morning ULC meetings instead of a place of worship, where inspiration can be drawn from each other and all matters discussed.
It is good that you recognize the groupish or hivish gene that we all have.
That is what is mostly being satisfied by churches and mosques.
Why not just admit it without all the lies about the Gods?
Why not seek God the way Jesus taught without becoming idol worshipers?
That produces mental and moral growth instead of what we see in Christianity and Islam which have settled for immoral demiurges.
Why not do the intelligent thing instead of the Idol worship that Jesus condemned?
Regards
DL
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On 09/04/2016 at 9:23 PM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
As stated in the Gospels; To be seen by others.
Strange how some non-believers know the scriptures better than theists.
Regards
DL
people first
in Interpath Dialogue, Universal Virtues and Values
Posted
I hear you and was thinking of the tobacco scientist who turned whistle blower.
People still grow tobacco knowing that they are producing a crop that kills people.
I think that they should find another cash crop. Perhaps cannabis as it has proven to be a lot less harmful.
Tobacco as an issue here is a lot different than cars which also kill a lot of people. In this case, I would not recommend that auto workers find a new trade.
I know you will see this as me splitting hairs but I see a value in a car and none in tobacco.
Regards
DL