Gnostic Bishop
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Posts posted by Gnostic Bishop
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On 26/09/2016 at 8:02 AM, Myrddin said:
The deity I refer to as Arglwydd (Lord) is not a personal god, but a force or energy.
Why would you call energy Lord?
Further, energy cannot communicate with us.
I have no problem with meditation etc. but you might recognize just who you are communicating with while meditating.
Google Freud and Jung's Father Complex and you might recognize that you are chatting with your own instincts that are pushing you to be the fittest human you can be.
Regards
DL
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On 28/09/2016 at 1:08 PM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
By all means, let us split hairs. In at least some of Native American culture; tobacco was/is part of ceremony and religious practice. Sometimes, things are not so simple.
True that natives ceremoniously used tobacco. Daily or addictive use is hardly ceremonial.
Regards
DL
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On 29/09/2016 at 3:37 PM, Dan56 said:
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16). So if the consequences of sin is death and God knew all would sin, what was the real purpose of creating the world? To separate the wheat from the chaff.
Do you think punishing the innocent instead of the guilty is good justice?
And if you think it is poor justice and is evil, why would you think God would ask you to profit from such an unjust act?
Regards
DL
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On 26/09/2016 at 3:36 AM, Dan56 said:
The knowledge of evil is not an education, its a rotten experience. What's moral about affliction, suffering, and dying?
If God's objective was to create free thinking individuals who were capable of independently making choices, then God has not failed to create perfectly. The fact that we freely chose to be disobedient to God is no reflection on his perfection. Just as parents allow their children to screw-up in order to learn, God does likewise.
True to a point. Most parents do not let their children do what will have the parent murder them by neglect.
After they ate, A & E were denied by God that which would have kept them alive. The tree of life.
A good analogy for that murder is that you would starve your children to death for their mistake.
Are you as vile as Yahweh? Would you do what he is said to have done?
Most parents would not.
BTW. You say we have a free choice to not sin while ignoring the fact that that free choice has never been taken by anyone. Your faith based belief is thus refuted by a fact that your bible agrees with.
Regards
DL
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On 06/10/2016 at 2:06 AM, OvergrownHamster said:
Once eternal life is granted to a believer, can they lose their salvation ?
I'm talking about when a person receives the holy spirit and is sealed.
Eternal life is a myth. I cannot see anyone wanting to be eternal. It would be quite the boring existence.
But to your issues.
Satan was created eternal and good yet turned to evil, as some incorrectly think, so it seems that Satan lost her salvation and initial goodness.
If Satan was good as some think, then Yahweh is the vile demiurge that Gnostic Christians think he is.
To Jews and Gnostic Christians, Satan is man's savior and not Jesus. Not savior in terms of forgiving us of course, no one but ourselves can do that, but in terms of gaining the mental ability to know we should be forgiving ourselves at some point in time.
Satan elevated man while God wanted to keep us morally blind and rather stupid.
Regards
DL
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On 09/09/2016 at 8:56 PM, Myrddin said:I am a Witch (Wiccan). I practice a form of Wicca that honors its traditional roots but is progressive in its outlook. There are discussions about other deities here, and I just wished to briefly describe my personal views. I believe that there is a universal life force, prime mover, divine energy, or "God" if you will, but it is not something that easily interacts with us on a personal level. In some traditional forms of Wicca this was referred to as Dryghten (an Anglo-Saxon term meaning "lord"). Since I am working in a Welsh based setting I refer to this impersonal force as Arglwydd (Welsh for "lord"). Arglwydd is "the All;" masculine and feminine, active and passive, and light and dark. The Wiccan God represents the masculine/active polarity of Arglwydd, and the Wiccan Goddess represents the feminine/passive polarity of Arglwydd. I stray from some traditional forms of Wicca because I am more polytheistic and do not believe all gods are one God, and all goddesses are one Goddess. I believe there are numerous deities who act as intermediaries between the impersonal universal force and mankind. My personal God is Lludd/Nuada (a Celtic Mars type) who I see as "a" representative of the masculine energy of the universal force, but distinct from other gods. My Goddess is Rhiannon/Macha (a Celtic Minerva type) who I see as "a" representative of the feminine energy of the universal force, but distinct from other goddesses. I am willing to accept that others have relationships with their own respective gods, and that their gods may also be aspects or representatives of the universal force.Bendithion,Myrddin
Can I take it that your belief stems from faith alone and not any personal experience between you and your Gods and Goddesses?
If you see your deity as (Lord), do you live by what it tells or commands of you, or are you more like Jews and Gnostic Christians who themselves create the laws to live by and in that sense put themselves above God?
Regards
DL
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On 19/09/2016 at 1:26 AM, Dan56 said:
Yes, sin is the result of possibility, the possibility of free thinking individuals to independently choose to defy God, or be obedient.
The tree of knowledge is analogous to a school that goes from basically daycare to the best university.
The tree of knowledge is the source of our moral sense as shown quite clearly in Genesis.
Would you deny your children an education and basically keep them quite stupid and without a moral sense.
I hope not as that would make you a poor parent indeed.
God dis try to deny A & E their education.
Was that a good thing for a parent to do and if not, were A & E showing the right choice in disobeying what would be a really stupid command?
Regards
DL
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On 17/09/2016 at 0:11 PM, cuchulain said:
If God created everything, then Sin could not have entered into the world without God's go ahead. You claim that man created sin. But God created man, and so indirectly created sin.
This is exactly so and there is scriptural back up for your thinking. Jesus was chosen to die before man was even created as well as his ability to sin.
1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
Jesus was chosen to die before man was even created as well as his ability to sin.
Christians even sing that Adams sin was a happy fault and necessary sin that gained us a redeemer.
Seems that God badly wanted to have his son murdered. Nothing quite like killing your own son to make yourself the peoples hero.
Regards
DL
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On 18/08/2016 at 2:59 PM, cuchulain said:
Oops
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7 hours ago, Dan56 said:
2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 makes sense when taken in context of what Paul is saying; "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness". God doesn't send a lie, the lie is already with them, God just sends delusion which blinds them to the truth. When the truth is withheld, all that's left is delusion and confusion. " Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them...When they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened...Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts...Who changed the truth of God into a lie" (Romans 1:19-25)
"God is not a man, that he should lie" (Numbers 23:19)
"In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began" (Titus 1:2)
"That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie" (Hebrews 6:18)"God just sends delusion which blinds them to the truth."
Is it good to blind someone to the truth, or is it evil?
Regards
DL
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15 hours ago, Dan56 said:
Evil is the direct result of sin, it didn't exist prior to sin because sin is its cause. God simply allowed choice, from which sin came and evil resulted.
Satan was alive before man did his first sin. Right?
If so, how can you say that evil did not exist before sin?
As to your free will card.
Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.
That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."
But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.
If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin. That being the case, for God to punish us for following the instincts and natures he put in us would be quite wrong.
Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."
Regards
DL
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4 hours ago, Dan56 said:
I disagree, God did not create sin. God is not capable of sin, its in direct opposition of his will. Evil is the result of sin.. The fall of man began when we chose the knowledge of evil, we are now experiencing something we freely chose to know.
You look at justice from a limited time frame. The bible teaches that no one gets away with anything; "And I saw a great white throne.. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works... And they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Revelation 20:11-15). Jesus is the living definition of compassion, what you call a scapegoat, I call a Savior.
God is not capable of sin,
What happened to your all-powerful omnipotent god?
You cannot answer that but then again, I see what you wrote as a lie because of the following that make god a liar and a sinner.
Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
1Kings 22:23
Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.
2 Chron 18:22
Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
Jer 4:10
And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.
Ezekiel 14:9
For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.
Thessalonians 2:11O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived. - Jeremiah 20:7
To me, God’s worse lie was to Adam and Eve. He told them they could eat of the tree of life and then reneged and in a real sense murdered them by denying them a remedy.
That pesky God sure works in mysterious ways.
Regards
DL
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14 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
Just because someone is using sloppy, confused thinking, does not mean he is lying. In this case, I think it's cognitive dissonance.
I call it more like bearing false witness as they are taking second and third hand ideas/hear say and passing them off as real and true.
If they cleaned up their sloppy language and confused thinking, then I would recant my saying they are lying outright, but most do not.
Regards
DL
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13 hours ago, Dan56 said:
Then you ought to know that God didn't create you to sin. Sin is essentially disobedience to God, and its a choice. While sin and death entered the world through one man, and we are all born in a fallen world that's conducive to our sin nature, I don't believe we have ever been absolved of choice. If that were true, God could not be righteous, because he'd be guilty of creating sin... jmo
"you ought to know that God didn't create you to sin."
Yet you say we have "our sin nature".
When all sin, as you say, then to say that we have a free choice to not sin, when no one has ever not sinned, is you not facing reality.
Not surprising as your reality is filled with the supernatural and fantasy characters like angels and demons.
What a waste of a good human mind.
Regards
DL
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17 hours ago, Dan56 said:
Without disputing one point, or offering an ounce of biblical evidence, your accusation is based on absolutely nothing. Show me a bible verse that illustrates and confirms your ridiculous conclusion that Satan was a girl? Show me where a female angel appeared? Show me the verses that say Satan has not been condemned? Explain why justice delayed means its denied. If your unable to support these wild conclusions, then your correct in saying; "Lies, lies and more lies". Your banter must be directed towards the RCC, because it has absolutely no biblical support at all.
When I quote your bible, you ignore what I put.
Most of the ancient gods, including Yahweh, were androgynous. If god was a creator god, he would use his own form as a template for creating angels just as he did for man.
As to justice delayed.
I am not surprised that you would ignore the victims who seeks justice and closure so as to be better able to leave the pain behind and do not care how the delay is unjust.
To understand that justice delayed is justice denied shows how much compassion your beliefs have robbed you of.
That condition is also why you can ignore the immorality of you using Jesus as your scapegoat.
No compassion.
Regards
DL
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13 hours ago, Dan56 said:
Then you ought to know that God didn't create you to sin. Sin is essentially disobedience to God, and its a choice. While sin and death entered the world through one man, and we are all born in a fallen world that's conducive to our sin nature, I don't believe we have ever been absolved of choice. If that were true, God could not be righteous, because he'd be guilty of creating sin... jmo
In the beginning, there was only god.
Everything that is emanated from god and that would include sin and evil.
Your bible is clear that god created evil just as he created all concepts that we can know.
One should know they are off the mark when having to ignore as much of the bible as you do.
Regards
DL
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1 hour ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
Oh,please. Even I know the doctrine of Original Sin.
Tsk, tsk.
That almost sounds like a P C way of saying someone is lying.
Regards
DL
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1 hour ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
As you say. The Chinese Communist Party likes to be in complete charge of human thought.
It is an over simplification. Falun Gong is largely a combination of Buddhism, Taoism, qi gong exercises, meditation and other elements. They were outlawed in 1999.
Christianity is not getting a free pass in China. The "house churches" are an underground movement. When they are caught, they face disaster.
Buddhism is also not much in favor. Consider what is happening in Tibet.
If you were in China, for sure you would have gotten thrown into prison or killed.
I think this is worth repeating. Nothing good comes from outlawing or persecuting religion.
A moral nation that allows immoral religions to go unchecked is bound to become an immoral nation.
I guess that you think that the U.S. authorities should have ignored Koresh and the Branch Dividians.
I also guess that you do not mind the religious persecution of gays since you do not want us to persecute them for their homophobia.
Do try to think of doing unto others.
Regards
DL
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Lies, lies and more lies.
No wonder Christianity grew itself by the sword instead of good deeds.
Regards
DL
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18 minutes ago, Dan56 said:
My God hasn't condemned anyone yet, except Satan himself.. God did not make anyone a sinner, that's our choice. The curse of the law is death, it was answered through Christ for all who receive him. Justice is justice, a little time is required, but I don't believe it will be denied.
When justice can be done swiftly and it is not then justice is denied.
Why do you say Satan himself?
Do you call women men?
Have you not recognized that the early Christian, then Catholic Church depicted Satan as a woman?
Have a loot at the Michelangelo Eden painting at the Vatican. Were they wrong in showing Satan as a woman?
Regards
DL
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1 hour ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
No. The secular government of China. Vicious, deadly persecution. The source of human organs that China is selling all over the world.
They are also known as Falun Gong.
I guess that would have to read up on them.
Strange though that China is allowing Christianity to grow while coming down on Islam and Falun Gong.
Let me speculate that China does not mind sheeple producing religions, but are afraid of religions that preach free thought and meditation.
Seems that if I lived in China, I would be persecuted as Gnostic Christianity is all about free thinking and not idol worshiping the words of men who lie and say that they are words of some god.
Regards
DL
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1 minute ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
Not really. Consider the persecution of the Falun Dafa people in China. We have a nontheistic religion; which is spreading like wildfire all over the world -- because it is being persecuted.
Unfortunately, I have not heard of this movement.
Strange though that if they are spreading that fast out of Chinas, that China's fastest growing religion is Christianity.
Who is persecuting them? Islam?
Regards
DL
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1 hour ago, Dan56 said:
You seem to be hung-up on the guilty being punished and not an innocent person, but all have sinned (Romans 3:23) and the penalty is death (Romans 6:23). So there you have it, your ideology condemns everyone. What's puzzling is that you define a God who is willing to redeem the repentant as being an immoral God. While your brand of justice provides no restitution and no redemption for anyone who makes a mistake. That just seems hopeless and doesn't appeal to me.
We are a universalist religion where god is seen as your bible says he is.
Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect:
You have your god condemning his own perfect creations.
And yes, I am hung up on any judge who thinks it good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty.
Why did your god make you a (perfect) sinner and then condemn you for being exactly what he created?
You say that the wages of sin is death yet we all sin but do not die for that sin.
Do you recognize that justice delayed is justice denied?
Regards
DL
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2 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
Yes. It did fail for Christianity. The new church became an extension of the State. The shell survived but it became all rot at the center. This is not victory. In any event, reality is not a numbers game. What is, is. What is not, is not.
All religions exist at the pleasure of the state.
We live by the law of the land and not the laws of a god.
I agree that most religions have become rotten as they have mostly all become idol worshiping cults who no longer seek god.
Regards
DL
speaking the truth
in Interpath Dialogue, Universal Virtues and Values
Posted
Thanks for the thumbs up.
I have not been around much because of temporary bans that seem to come my way often here.
I have no problem allowing people to believe whatever they like, as long as they are moral tenets, even if taken from an imaginary supernatural entity.
When it is otherwise, I go by this good advice.
Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
The problem I have with folks like Dan is that he sets his morality aside and promotes immoral thinking, such as with his penchant for a salvific Jesus which he can only follow by promoting the notion that having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs he has done, --- so that he might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is moral.
As Ingersoll said; 'no man would be fit for heaven who would consent that an innocent person should suffer for his sin.'
Regards
DL