Dan56

Not much to comment on when someone says, "I don't know and I don't care".. Being apathetic defines a person who is void of substance.

Excuse me, but who quoted 2 bible verses in the first post of this thread? In fact, you quoted a total of 5, while I quoted 2. A case of the pot calling the kettle black?

"God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light" (Genesis 1:3). There was light prior to day 4 (plants) "And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it" (Revelation 21:23). So, "God is light" (1 John 1:5), a different kind of light from the sun.

Atheist and all can have compassion and moral values, but they are based on nothing but what they think, which means that their morals can fluctuate on a whim. Believers have a solid foundation of unchanging morals based in a Truth that eludes nonbelievers. That's the difference.. It has nothing to do with bigotry, but simple biblical absolutes. Your all searching for answers from a fictional Star Trek episode while simultaneously suggesting that Christians are delusional Its been 2000 years since Christ brought the truth and it hasn't burnt out yet, so I wouldn't hold your breath on it dissipating anytime soon. Consider that if something is actually eternal, its longevity is guaranteed. The wind has gone out of your sails, but Christianity will never burn out and is going full speed ahead, so your comment is kind of a oxymoron.

Well, finally found something we can agree on...

Interesting... I never met a conservative atheist before. I didn't think it was possible, but very refreshing to see.

It doesn't, but believing in Christ does, because he paid the price for sin. “But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.” (Isaiah 53:5)

I agree that the wine & bread are emblems of the life and sacrifice of Christ taken in remembrance of him, they were never meant to represent the actual blood & body of Christ. "This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me" (Luke 22:19). I rejected Catholicism because it mixes old testament law with the New Covenant. Example, Christ taught to confess your sins to God, and that he became our intermediator, but Catholics still require sins to be confessed to a Priest, that's Old Testament where the Priest would then make a sacrifice for sin. But all that changed, we no longer need a middle man to confess our sins to our Father, the curtain was torn asunder in the Temple when Christ died, we are no longer separated from the Holy of Holies and have direct access for the remission of sin through Christ. There's a number of other objections I have, like you I reject the authority of the Pope, "Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone" (Ephesians 2:20). I reject the concept of purgatory, memorized prayer, etc.

I personally believe the bible is 100% valid, that it was inspired by God and written for all times. Its the 'Living Word' and not an out-of-date ancient document. Little if anything was lost in translation, a good concordance can help reveal the exact meaning of the Hebrew/Greek words translated into English. Everyone has questions and don't understand it all, but studying and getting answers will certainly help to solidify your faith. Teachers don't perform miracles or rise from the grave, Christ was Messiah. Bottom line is that belief in anything is ultimately a choice. I've obviously accepted the bible as the Truth, but reject Catholicism.

Just a little sarcasm to brighten your day ... Its the respond I would have gotten If I had posted a verse from that ancient old bronze age book written by a bunch of uneducated sheepherders. 'In the Bible hedone, hedonism, is always descriptive of selfishness, the kind of selfish pursuit of pleasure that leads to the desire for more pleasure, which leads to lust, which leads to temptation, which leads to sin. In every passage where it is found, hedone (the pursuit of pleasure) is called sinful.'

Hey!

Sounds like a very self-centered and selfish way to approach life (me, my, mine, myself and I). There's more to life than pleasing yourself, so its a pretty narrow pursuit. I wouldn't find hedonism to be fulfilling.. jmo

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Nothing to misrepresent, Atheist believe in no God or deity, nothing complex about that, so what's there to learn? You have repeatedly said that you believe in nothing and don't care about anything (Apatheism). It doesn't take a genius to comprehend the depth of that statement. If you refer to my first 3 post on page one of this thread, I didn't mention God or my belief. So I stayed on topic until you guys brought the biblical God up. When I remain steadfast in my belief, its not an attack or an expectation that others see things my way, but rather an explanation of why I believe as I do. Nonetheless, I will exit this thread now.

This isn't your bully pulpit, its open to all.. How many Christians have fled this forum after being attacked? No one is forcing you to accept the bible, so stop condemning people who believe it. "We don't want to hear it... It doesn't fit our view". I didn't know it was an exclusive club limited to atheist? Yes, I disagree with people who condemn and mock my God. As my first post in this thread said, "You have no argument because you believe in nothing and have nothing to defend". So I doubt your frustration is with me, but emanates from within yourself.

Accidental double post

Of course, any real Christian believes there is one way, one truth, and one life that leads to eternal life (John 14:6). Nothing wrong with that, its called monotheism. It doesn't force you to do likewise, so don't be afraid. America is already a predominately Christian nation, I simply endorse those values and have no desire to 'force' others to do likewise. Part of my belief entails testifying of the faith, not running away, hiding, or being bullied into silence. I need no support to be a Christian, my faith isn't based on numbers, but 'One Solitary Life' I state my belief, it is what it is, so I don't argue about it. Giving answers that others can't accept isn't arguing. I think your missing what encapsulates ULC, its not an Atheist only and no Christians allowed organization or forum.. ULC is all-encompassing, even welcoming those who believe in nothing. I've said many times that "no one knows nothing for certain". What I believe is just what I think and have accepted to be true, nothing more. So while you claim, "No one has died and lived to tell about it", your totally ignorant of the resurrection. Your other assumptions are mindless projections. Suggesting that a Christian would have been demanding the crucifixion of Christ is ridiculous. Those type of comments are just made to bate Christians into defensive and hateful retorts.. Nice try though. My initial comment in this thread was on topic, it was not my intent to stray, but comments about and against what I believe diverted the conversation. Sorry about that.

Of course I believe it.... 100% How am I a problem? You seem to have a ton of animosity towards Christians and I'm guessing your an Anti-Semite too. Your hostility towards those who believe in something beyond the here and now reveal a hateful character. If a bumper sticker angers you, get some help. No offense Pete, but I suspect you've always questioned your thoughts and never really fully accepted Christ as your Savior. You've always questioned the bible and didn't like much of what it said. Everyone has their own truth, the difference is that my Truth (Christ) is everlasting while your truth dies with you. Nothing fake about me, I'm fully convinced by the Holy Spirit (I know that's all Greek to you). If you lived a couple thousand years ago, I suspect you'd be in the crowd yelling 'Crucify Him".. That's sad.

Not at all, I get the concept of evidence... But the concept of faith seems to elude you. Your criteria is objective verifiable proof, while God's criteria is faith and trust. Having undeniable facts to confirm a truth requires no belief. We are here to make a choice (John 3:16), irrefutable evidence defies the necessity of choice and negates free will. Talk about conflating! Washington may have had 5400 soldiers who crossed the Delaware with him, but Jesus fed 5000 is a single afternoon. And once all the 'eyewitnesses' are dead and gone, it could all be construed as hearsay evidence couldn't it. The Romans didn't care, nor did they record anything about the religious territories they conquered, so the fact that it was mentioned later is a testimony that Christ was not fictional. The cannibalism remark is nonsense, its confusion by Gentile infidels who were ignorant and confused about the wine and bread as being actual blood and flesh, when they were symbolic of the life and sacrifice of Christ. (1 Corinthians 11:24-25). There was no one to refute the Risen Christ because they couldn't. There's no argument for a prophecy come true. For Satan's sake? You believe in him but not Jesus? Interesting... If a +2000 year old book is false, you ought to be able to prove it, but the fact that its irrefutable beyond all unsubstantiated allegations lends credibility to its authenticity and reliability. We each choose the legitimacy of what we have knowledge of. When you look for inconsistencies in something that you deny, you'll find them, or better said, you'll make them up. The Romans didn't pay Judas, the High Priest did.. The crowds and followers of Jesus were the reason they wanted to arrest him at night in order to avoid resistance. Judas gave them the exact location of where the Temple guards could get him under the cover of night. No biblical contradictions, just excuses to justify disbelief.

I'm aware that you don't believe in God, my point was that by your own criterion, you don't believe in George Washington either.

As usual, you guys missed the point.. By your criteria, you can't believe any book that can't be proven. Whereby, all history is myth, the Constitution is a fabricated lie, the Revolutionary War never happened, etc. We only know that George Washington crossed the Delaware River on December 25, 1776 because of a written record and witnesses. Its the same with the bible, yet you believe one and not the other. That's selective belief, because you accept that Washington crossed the Delaware with no verifiable facts, no physical evidence, and no scientific proof, while using those same qualifications to reject the bible.

Some people accept a written record of past events as evidence. Even courts accept sworn transcripts (affidavits) as evidence. So what your really spouting is that the written testimony of eye witnesses is not acceptable. You have concluded that something is false with no evidence to support your conclusion. If proof really matters to you, then you shouldn't be so quick to discount something without the necessary proof to prove its fraudulent. That's like saying, "Well I don't know if this guy is guilty or not, but just in case he did it, someone get a rope." You have faith that you are correct, with no evidence to support what you believe. You have automatically written off the bible as myth, with no proof to substantiate your assumption. That is tantamount to me saying that the US Constitution is a fake fairy tale, written hundreds of years ago by a bunch of backwoods stump-kicking hillbillies. All we have is an unproven document, so why take it seriously. Truth is, you'll believe what you like without evidence, but demand proof to believe what you don't like.

God was demonstrated and revealed in Christ.. Unfortunately, that's all He's going to do, and it was more than enough. When I say that you believe in nothing, I'm referring to nothing divine or spiritual. And everyone does get a chance for eternal life (John 3:16). Belief is a choice that we all make, you have chosen to believe in man (science) and I've chosen God. Man has discovered and invented things, but he's created nothing. Why would God create what we can make? He's given us the raw materials but expects us to do the work.

I'm fully aware that you believe in nothing.. I'm also aware that you demand physical evidence as confirmation of God.. The book that I believe testifies of that physical evidence embodied in Christ, sorry you missed it. I'm not mad about anything, I'm just convinced that the proof you demand will come. Jesus said that some people would not believe even with miracles and evidence (Luke 16:31), so I consider you a prophecy come true. Understand that if you believed as I do, you would not be angry with people like yourself, but rather feel sorry for them. A lost soul is a tragedy.

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:20). God is not a science experiment, nor can science demonstrate God, let alone prove He exist. You can't verify a spiritual entity by physical observation or experimentation. God's existence is demonstrated by all that exist, of which science has no provable answer for. Science can't create anything, it can only discover what has always been here. I agree with your last 3 words