RevRainbow

"And if everyone will notice how this has gotten off topic and turned into an attack on non believers? It always works that way and is a good example of what I mentioned earlier; they always attack the non believers instead of the topic. The non believer is always wrong for speaking out." -Dave I find it interesting that from my perspective it appears as though you entered the thread by attacking the believer (me)! I do not mind the arguments about science and religion or religion and God; it can be enlightening and stimulating, but I perceived a condescending attitude in your posts whereby I concluded that you deem persons believing in God (or gods) somehow inferior. Believing in God does not make me less intelligent than one who does not believe. I have no problem accepting persons with atheistic belief as individuals. My only problem is with attitudes of superiority. I did not attack you as a non believer, I merely defended my initial position that you contested which I consider viable. I never indicated a wrongness in your speaking out. I cannot speak for the others in the thread but I have no malice nor consider your comments to be without merit. I only take umbrage at your innuendos such as: "Apparently you misread, or purposely misunderstood what I said." One cannot scientifically prove the non existance of God any more than one can scientifically prove He does exist. We may both be right or both wrong. Furthermore, neither side will persuade the other to repent of his belief. Therefore, futher discussion is but a moot point and perhaps should be terminated lest the thread deteriorates, as you indicated, into personal attacks on individuals and their beliefs. There is such a myriad of different core beliefs on this site that we must. as with television, channel surf. If you are not in tune with a certain belief or are offended by another, all we have to do is change channels. Freedom of worship and speech is a guarantee (hopefully) for all of us and must be respected. If I have offended anyone by my posts, or have misunderstood their intent in response, I do humbly apologise. It is never my intent to offend anyone, but to offer spiritual insight and encouragement to those who believe in God as I do and to present an alternate perspective to those who do not. For that, I do not apologise.

"Some are so open all the garbage fell out. Just because someone agrees with you does not mean they have an open mind" -Dave I don't think they came to my defense, nor do I consider their minds open, simply because they agree with me. As a matter of fact, I don't think they do agree with my post. I must state that your comment about science not caring about my (or anyone's) God is a misconception. Some of the greatest scientific minds of this age believe in God (I use the term generically), including Stephen Hawking. I stand by my premise that God and Science are not at odds and that belief in God and religion are two different concepts. You see, one can religiously believe in science!

When I joined the forum it was my belief (or is that hypothesis?) that we come together to share our common belief which is, according to the ULC, "in that which is right!" Our purpose (again, my hypothesis based on the ULC motto, "We Are One") is to learn from one another through an acceptance of our differences and thereby advance in wisdom and knowledge by sharing what we have learned in life. You don't have to believe or accept what I say in these posts, nor do I, yours. But through our sharing, we learn how others deal with life situations, overcome adversity and fulfill our lives. I will never attack anyone with whom I differ on opinion or belief. I will, if so desired, engage in positive, constructive dialogue which hopefully will benefit both but I will not involve myself in caustic arguments which are apparently based on religious or scientific prejudice. Consider that all of us could be wrong and we are all part of a virtual computer game on some aliens desktop! Thank you, gentlemen (tallmike and the coach), for coming to my defense. I understand that an open forum may contain some closed minds. By the way, there is no gravity, the world simply sucks! (sorry 'bout that)

Sorry Dave. I evidently did not define my terms clearly which caused a misinterpretation of what was being communicated. By religion I meant an organized system of ceremony, prayer, ritual, rules and laws which constrain the believer to a prescribed method of worship. By faith I meant a personal belief that a spiritual Diety exists which/whom is responsible for all of creation and is worthy of acknowledgement as such without necessarily abiding by any known form of prescibed formalities. I am not trying to redefine religion. I am trying to define the difference between religion and simple faith in God. This determines whether one as an individual is faithful to God himself or faithful to one's religion apart from God. One can be faithful to God through religion or be religious but far apart from God. It is a matter of the heart. I was religious for years without really knowing God. I am now not religious and feel much closer to Him. My premise is simply that science will never shake my belief in the Almighty's existance, merely enhance it and that organized religion is problematic. I hope I have now clarified my position better. Thanks for reading and sharing.

Why is the sky blue? Why is water wet? Why is fire hot? Why can’t I see the air? Why do flowers smell? Questions a curious little child asks, to which an adult might reply, “because” since the true explanation would not be comprehended. Another answer, the one my mother used, was simply, “God made it that way.” Okay, okay. Now don’t smirk. God did make it that way. Surely, we have the scientific explanation for almost everything nowadays and they are the correct explanations in the physical world. But I go a step further. Science and Religion don’t mix. That is true. But I am not talking religion. I am talking of a belief in the existence of a creator, a divinity. That belief is not religion, it is simple faith. Religion puts limits and restrictions on faith. It takes a belief in the Almighty and attaches man made rules of worship and lifestyle. Religion also tries to explain and define God to the believer and that is why there have been so many errors in defining the universe, heaven, the earth and just about everything else down through the ages. That is why God has used science so that we can discover more of the truth of existence. God and science are not at odds, nor do the two have conflict. What is true is that when science makes a discovery, religion must adapt its dogma whereas the believer with simple faith merely is awed at God’s omnipotence. Discovering that the earth is not the center of the universe, that there are galaxies beyond the clouds and God’s throne is not in the stratosphere has been a matter for religionists to deal with. This is why physical things are used to confound the high and mighty. God has a wonderful sense of humor and the more all-knowing we think we are, the more He shows we ain’t, by discoveries made through science. Science actually gives us a much clearer and truthful picture of who God is. If we enter into the spiritual kingdom, we must do so in faith. As little children, trusting our heavenly Father to guide us and explain things. But, just like our parents when we were young, God will not explain everything at once, because we would not fully understand. We must discover the Truth ourselves over time. And, little by little, He reveals more of himself to us…if we seek. So enter God’s world with childlike wonder. When science explains how flowers get their variety of colors, it does not make them less beautiful. Because science explains the variety of fish in the sea, it does not reduce their attraction. When science explains how vast and expansive the universe is, it merely confirms that God is far greater (and creation more wondrous) that what we formerly knew or believed about Him. When science holds up the periodic table of elements, it shows me how things are put together. I do not say there is no God. I say, now I understand how God works even more clearly. Science does not disprove the existence of God. Science confirms it and ultimately will prove it. The rocks themselves will bear witness. When scripture tells us to “Seek and ye shall find,” that is more a scientific mandate than a religious rule. Religion will have to work long and hard to stay afloat as more and more of God’s true nature comes to light. Jesus once said that the time had come when those who believe in God will not worship in buildings but in spirit and truth. Religion is trying to keep us in the buildings. We need to take a walk outside.