MASS DELIVERANCE: Win Worley sermon


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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/25/2024 at 9:42 PM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

I'm not sure what I can contribute.

 

The importance of forgiveness?  Maybe.

 

Demons and witchcraft?  The occult?  Sorcery?  Yoga?

I have nothing to contribute.  This is paranoia and fear.  

Yeah, the usual bogeyman topics. Fearmongering is so dull, and so overused. 

 

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14 hours ago, the Hearthwitch said:

Yeah, the usual bogeyman topics. Fearmongering is so dull, and so overused. 

 

 

Fear is at the heart of Christianity.  Take out Hell and damnation -  what's left?

 

What is the first question an evangelist asks?  "Have you been saved?"

 

Of course the whole body of Christian doctrine.  God sacrificed himself to himself to save us from himself for something that we didn't do -  because God is incapable of forgiveness without pain and blood.

 

The appeal is lost on me.

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You may be supprised but we have a complete opposite view on this. This clip was not about fear but about deliverance. 

 

Hidden from the world and from most of Christianity is what goes on behind the scenes. What goes on behind the scenes warfare. That is not fear mongering to point that out, it is sharing insight.

 

This warefare is as old as time as we know it. You do not have to live under the power and tyranny of the oppressor, possessor, or destroyer.

 

What you dont know will hurt you.

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Coolhand said:

You may be supprised but we have a complete opposite view on this. This clip was not about fear but about deliverance. 

 

Hidden from the world and from most of Christianity is what goes on behind the scenes. What goes on behind the scenes warfare. That is not fear mongering to point that out, it is sharing insight.

 

This warefare is as old as time as we know it. You do not have to live under the power and tyranny of the oppressor, possessor, or destroyer.

 

15 hours ago, Coolhand said:

What you dont know will hurt you.

 

 

 

 

Only if it's real.  I am committed to rejecting fear based content.  

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7 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

Only if it's real.  I am committed to rejecting fear based content.  

Right I agree, however at some point there needs to be a concern for self preservation.

 

The number of people these days coming forward with visions and testimonies of being in hell has greatly increased. The similarities in thier stories is convincing to me, but I do not need any further convincing on that. But the objective seeker of truth cannot ignore and continue to ignore the increasing frequency and number of these testimonies.

 

Also, the deliverance aspect of the ministry. The demonic spirits that are being cast out of a person, they know who Jesus is. They know they have to submit to the command to leave in the name of Jesus. In fact, you can interogate them prior to expelling them. You can get thier name, when they came in, and what they are doing there. But they are very legalist: if the "host" has given them a legal right to be there they will not leave because they do not have to and they know it. The practices that Win was calling out in the video are the doors that people open that allow these demons in. It is sneaky, it is underhanded, and it is heartbreaking.

 

You only have to actually see this once in person and your whole world view will change. Of course people see it and do still reject it but it takes real commitment to remain skeptical.

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19 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

I expect you mean death?  Yes.  We will all die. I choose to not be afraid.

 

 

I mean reality. Your reality and my reality will merge into true reality. The truth.

 

Yes we will all die, and that is part of it, but that part of it we already agree on.

 

You choose not to be afraid. That is where I think realities diverge. You refer to Christianity as hell and damnation, someone else said fearmongering. 

 

I mentioned earlier that at some point that at some point it seems there would be a conscern for self preservation. 

 

The irony (to me anyway) is that people chose to not believe in Jesus while they are living on his earth, breathing his air, being able to sleep because he allows, drinking water he provides: basically living on daddy's credit card; in this envornment and context they choose to not believe. As a believer I think, "how is it even possible to be that entitled, to say that there is no evidence to believe in Jesus, and to throw such a charade of bravery and rebellion?"

 

I would argue two things:

 

1) The same serpent that was described as "clever," "subtle," etc. is very skilled at sophistry and very convincing in causing the smart and intelligent disregard certain facts to their own harm and to his enjoyment.

 

2) This bravery the serpent gives people who are living in God's grace is quite different than what it experienced the first few seconds after leaving here. There, is real fear. Undescribible fear.  Unending fear.

 

I think you should listen to the testimonies of people that have experinced hell. I think you should listen to some testimonies of people that have been deliverances from demon spirits.

 

I know its an argument. Im done looking at it like an argument. Its a heartbreaking thing to know that I have freinds that are likely going to experience these horrors. I can only be hopeful something changes.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 5/17/2024 at 1:49 AM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

I don't know where to begin.

I read the Bible.  It is mythology.

I do not believe in God.

I do not believe in Jesus.

I am not afraid of yoga or meditation.

 

I'm all for friendly conversation.  I am not looking for an argument.

Ditto. Arguments don't work on a lot of us, and to push beliefs that are not shared is not only laughable...it's also downright gauche.

 

I have read a lot of purportedly holy books. 
Every single one of 'em was written by men (unless some particulary ballsy women used a nom de plume, but that's rather unlikely, as women have historically been outright barred, on fear of death, from doing much in the way of Abrahamic religious works). 
Men are inherently flawed, per the very theology which is being quoted.
Then, in the case of the bible, it was RE-written by more men. 
The end products tend to be muddled, self-contradictory, and full of threats. There is little there to recommend them as a guide for a good life, or being a good person.
There was a reason that the Church Fathers were terrified of the Godless Men. They had the strength to have a solid moral compass without coercion, and to act on it without the threat of Hell. 
A very frightening prospect indeed, for a group of men trying to terrify and control the populace. 

 

All of that said, my reality is just fine, and I doubt VERY much that it will be converging with that one, anytime soon.
 

Unless, by some amazing chance, everyone winds up in the Land of Summer, or perhaps Valhalla.

Me, I'm hoping to serve in the house of Freyr and Gerd...I'm down with fixing their morning coffee and pastries, and tending gardens, if service is something needed, postmortem. I reckon bacon won't be served at that table, but that's OK. I'll have mine when they're not looking. ;) 

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proof that it's fear based lies in the responses, which inevitably devolve into talking points about when you die and you'll find out then.  it's amazing when they can't see the inherent threat, the fear, that they are trying to use to manipulate belief

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There is manipulation of belief, by the serpent, and most people are not even aware of it. He was described as the "more subtle" than any other beast. He is the "accuser." The evidence that he is operating in this topic is the accusations of "threat" and "manipulation" and "fear" and "coersion." The accuser of the bretheren is at work.

 

Im not trying to start trouble or tick anybody off, but we chose to believe what we believe. It is a choice that is made everyday to maintain a belief. It is a choice to view facts and circumstances and draw conclusions.

 

It is heartbreaking to be on the side that I am on and hear the objections and hear the serpent's reasonings being used to cause people to ignore and disregard a message of hope.

 

I suggest listening to testimonies of people who have seen hell and then asking yourself if it will have been worth it if you are wrong. They are very easy to find and they are plentiful.

 

Just check it out.

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On 6/11/2024 at 10:11 PM, Coolhand said:

There is manipulation of belief, by the serpent, and most people are not even aware of it. He was described as the "more subtle" than any other beast. He is the "accuser." The evidence that he is operating in this topic is the accusations of "threat" and "manipulation" and "fear" and "coersion." The accuser of the bretheren is at work.

 

Im not trying to start trouble or tick anybody off, but we chose to believe what we believe. It is a choice that is made everyday to maintain a belief. It is a choice to view facts and circumstances and draw conclusions.

 

It is heartbreaking to be on the side that I am on and hear the objections and hear the serpent's reasonings being used to cause people to ignore and disregard a message of hope.

 

I suggest listening to testimonies of people who have seen hell and then asking yourself if it will have been worth it if you are wrong. They are very easy to find and they are plentiful.

 

Just check it out.

this is a problem for Christian belief, isn't it?  give that it's all real.  the serpent is a dynamic deceiver.  therefore none of the gospel is trustworthy, because it easily could have been infernal inspiration that led to the work as it is today.  judge by the fruits, and just what are the most popular ones?  sex scandles, lies and bigotry abound in the church.  killing, suppression, you name it and chances are the church has done it.

no thanks to Christianity, is my reply.

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Well, I believe you know this, just as the serpent has corrupted and attempted to corrupt everything from relationships to business, to sex and marraige, he has also corrupted the church where he has been allowed to. The fruits that you are judging by are not Christian values or the fruits of the Spirit. You are judging the works of the flesh in people who claim to be Christian, of which Paul in Galatians 5 says none will inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

It seems like some people judge Christianity as a whole by those who claim to be Christian but so not even follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

 

I guess that is conveinent and easy, however apart from Jesus Christ one would have no idea about the danger they are in, or about thier enemy, or that they are even in a war.

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