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I can see that you are serious, so I will give a serious response.   Over the years, I have held different views on God.  I have done a lot of shifting.  Some of it on this board.  For now a

If you follow the theology, it's actually much worse than that.  By doctrine, the sin we must be redeemed from, is Original Sin.  That is, the sin we inherit from Adam and Eve in the Garden.  Our grav

Then we agree?  The sacrifice was in vain?  

On 6/8/2021 at 3:05 AM, Dan56 said:

 

Its not a threat, its a biblical promise (Mark 16:16, John 3:36).. He is only a loving God to those who don't reject him, He's a God of wrath to all others.

 

Exactly, he's got no problems with infanticide... very loving. Have fun with him, for eternity... 

 

Terrorism at its finest.

 

:coffee:

 

PS as I've said before: I think the basic question and topic of this thread has been answered: because it's a schizophrenic god (dividing himself in several personalities) that pretends to be all-knowing and all-powerful but because of his issues with obviously not being any of these (because even with free choice he knows the choice in advance and chooses to set things up so people can fail) he has to do some masochistic "sacrifice" to himself (instead of making a perfect world before hand) that is pretty much pointless as he is supposed to be an eternal being...

 

Edited by RevBogovac
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17 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

Exactly, he's got no problems with infanticide... very loving. Have fun with him, for eternity... 

 

Terrorism at its finest.

 

:coffee:

 

PS as I've said before: I think the basic question and topic of this thread has been answered: because it's a schizophrenic god (dividing himself in several personalities) that pretends to be all-knowing and all-powerful but because of his issues with obviously not being any of these (because even with free choice he knows the choice in advance and chooses to set things up so people can fail) he has to do some masochistic "sacrifice" to himself (instead of making a perfect world before hand) that is pretty much pointless as he is supposed to be an eternal being...

 

 

You fail to comprehend 'free choice'. We were created with it, which means we are not programmed robots. As long as people are capable of having a change of heart (mind), we are not predictable, even to an all-knowing God. That's why in Noah's day it grieved God that he had made man because of the total wickedness He saw.

 

Also consider what God said to Abraham just prior to him attempting to sacrifice his son Issac, "And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me" (Genesis 22:12). In other words, God obviously didn't know beforehand whether Abraham would actually do it.

 

Many times God relented and changed His mind (Exodus 32:14, Jeremiah 26:19). We are made in His image, meaning that we have that same characteristic, the ability to reconsider things. God being omnipotent as well as omniscient means that He has the power to change what otherwise may have been. Sinners perish and all have sinned, but God changed that. The sacrifice was not masochistic, but an act of love for His children. 

 

The world God made was perfectly good, as was Adam and Eve, not to mention Satan. But everything changed because of our decisions (disobedience), which lead to a fallen world of suffering and death.

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1 hour ago, RevBogovac said:

 

What Jonathan said.

 

:coffee:

 

 

In standard Christian apologetics, there is great emphasis that God is outside of time and space.  Only an entity outside of time and space could have created time and space.  William Laine Craig keeps repeating this.  Because God is the First Cause.  The foundation of Christian apologetics.

 

Only a creature trapped by linear time can be surprised.  By anything.  From the God perspective, past, present and future are all the same.  It follows that God can not be surprised.  To God, the future has already happened.  It's part of All Knowing.

 

Equally, since God knows the future -- remembers the future -- is constantly experiencing the future -- it follows that God can not change the future.  The future has already happened.  It follows that God can not change the future.  So much for God being All Powerful.

 

In order for God to be able to change the future -- God would need to be able to change the past.  When we take things in that direction, it follows that reality is constantly being undone -- and nothing matters.  Since God "regrets" God's past actions, that seems unlikely.

 

It's worse.  Since God knows everything, it follows that God already knows every action and thought that God will ever have.  God can not change God's mind in the future -- unless God can change God's mind in the past.  Again, God is not All Powerful.

 

As usual, Dan is making crap up as he goes along.  Unless he understands Scripture better than William Laine Craig.  I mention this, because Dan's new song is how I don't understand Scripture.

 

:birgits_giggle:

 

:bye:

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

In standard Christian apologetics, there is great emphasis that God is outside of time and space.  Only an entity outside of time and space could have created time and space.  William Laine Craig keeps repeating this.  Because God is the First Cause.  The foundation of Christian apologetics.

 

Only a creature trapped by linear time can be surprised.  By anything.  From the God perspective, past, present and future are all the same.  It follows that God can not be surprised.  To God, the future has already happened.  It's part of All Knowing.

 

Equally, since God knows the future -- remembers the future -- is constantly experiencing the future -- it follows that God can not change the future.  The future has already happened.  It follows that God can not change the future.  So much for God being All Powerful.

 

In order for God to be able to change the future -- God would need to be able to change the past.  When we take things in that direction, it follows that reality is constantly being undone -- and nothing matters.  Since God "regrets" God's past actions, that seems unlikely.

 

It's worse.  Since God knows everything, it follows that God already knows every action and thought that God will ever have.  God can not change God's mind in the future -- unless God can change God's mind in the past.  Again, God is not All Powerful.

 

As usual, Dan is making crap up as he goes along.  Unless he understands Scripture better than William Laine Craig.  I mention this, because Dan's new song is how I don't understand Scripture.

 

:birgits_giggle:

 

:bye:

 

 

 

 

 

You also fail to understand free will.. As long as a free thinking individual has the ability to change their mind, their future is not set in stone. God knows all things and God knows the future, but he created us as independent thinkers, which means that no ones fate is predetermined until time ends. While God knows the beginning from the end, every person is a work in progress, God is the potter and we are the clay, the future can be molded just as a lump of clay.

 

If God already knew who would be saved and who would be lost, why would He call on us to believe in Him? This whole experience in the flesh would be an exercise in futility. God could skip it all and go straight to judgement. But God does not know and eternity is not foreknown. 

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2 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

You also fail to understand free will.. As long as a free thinking individual has the ability to change their mind, their future is not set in stone. God knows all things and God knows the future, but he created us as independent thinkers, which means that no ones fate is predetermined until time ends. While God knows the beginning from the end, every person is a work in progress, God is the potter and we are the clay, the future can be molded just as a lump of clay.

 

If God already knew who would be saved and who would be lost, why would He call on us to believe in Him? This whole experience in the flesh would be an exercise in futility. God could skip it all and go straight to judgement. But God does not know and eternity is not foreknown. 

 

This is true.  We agree at last.  It is silly.          :birgits_giggle:

 

 

 

 

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