Jews for Jesus vs. Jews for Judaism (A Debate)


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2 hours ago, damnthing said:

Historically it was more of a 'jesus for jews' kind of a thing.

It is a bit confusing, if a jew is for jesus doesn't that, by default, make him an x tian?

 

 

 

I am a Jewish Atheist.  I can't really take sides, based on theology.

 

:mellow:

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1 hour ago, mark 45 said:

if one chooses(and i could be wrong),a person can claim to be jewish,and a jew for jesus.doesn't make them correct.

 

 

I can claim to be a horse.  That does not make it so.

 

We need to be careful with the question.  The questions that we ask influence the answers.  In my opinion,  the question should be -- Does a belief in Jesus as Messiah, negate being Jewish?

 

I used to have a circle of Hasidic friends.  They would respond to such questions by citing Jewish Law.  They would tell me, that because my mother was Jewish, I was Jewish.  My Atheism didn't enter into it.  My mother had made me Jewish, and my non-belief was not an issue.

 

This makes things a little murky for me.  As an Atheist, I can't very well appeal to Jewish Law.  It was clear for them.  I was Jewish.  My lack of belief was a non-issue.

 

Now, it gets confusing.  The movement of Reform Judaism (Reform with a capital R) changed the rules.  Reform Judaism recognizes Jewishness from either parent.  That is to say, someone with a Jewish father is Jewish.

 

Of course, the world of Orthodox Judaism had a fit.  But, it gets worse.  There is now a religious movement called Humanistic Judaism.  The foundation book for this movement is -- Judaism beyond God.  It is Humanism for Jews.  Another major split.

 

Without getting lost in the sub-fractures, we have an interesting development.  The world of Orthodox Judaism does not recognize the Rabbinic authority of Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist, Humanist, etc. rabbis.  When these rabbis conduct a conversion -- the process by which someone transits from being gentile to Jewish -- The Orthodox rabbis don't recognize it as being a valid conversion.  

 

What does that mean?  When a woman converts to (for instance) Reform Judaism, the Orthodox will insist that she is not Jewish -- so her children are not Jewish.  As an Atheist, I am not in any position to argue with the theology.  I know what the issues are.  I'm simply not able to take sides.  It wouldn't really matter.  Who wants my opinion?

 

It's a mess.  Entering the confusion, to make things more confused, are the "Messianic" Jews.  The "Complete" Jews.  Of course, they have it right and all the other Jews have it wrong.  Much like the other groups.  I have my opinion about them as well.  Nobody who is part of this mess, cares what a Jewish Atheist thinks.  It's just part of the mess.  So, I watch from the sidelines.

 

If God were real, is this how things would be?  Now comes the funny part.  I over simplified.  It's a lot worse.

 

:sigh2:

 

:mellow:

 

 

 

 

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On 2/5/2021 at 9:19 PM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

[...] If God were real, is this how things would be?  [...]

 

Oh, may I please jump through that hoop. May I, may I, pleaaaaaase...? 🙃

 

From an extremists/puritan's point of view it is the proof that his god is real because his god has left the physical world to Satan to rule... :coffee:

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12 minutes ago, RevBogovac said:

 

Oh, may I please jump through that hoop. May I, may I, pleaaaaaase...? 🙃

 

From an extremists/puritan's point of view it is the proof that his god is real because his god has left the physical world to Satan to rule... :coffee:

 

 

That is an interpretation that had not occurred to me.  Hmmm.....

 

:mellow:

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