God is not a Good Theory (Sean Carroll)


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  • 2 months later...
1 hour ago, MohammadMatthews said:

How complicated he is about simple things. Ancient people invented God because they simply did not know any other way to explain how the world works. But now we have learnt a lot about the world and the existence of a god in it is not necessary.

 

In fairness, there is more to it than that.  People really enjoy creating personifications.  The process of creating concrete forms for abstract things.  I'll leave the why of it to Psychologists and Anthropologists.

 

Consider the Statue of Liberty.  We need only add an altar and a priesthood, and we can actually worship at Freedom's feet.

 

Old Man Winter is on TV commercials.   The poor old deity has been reduced to selling snow tires.

 

I expect that this tendency to personification has been with us, as long as there have been people.  That does not mean that anybody thinks these entities exist as anything more than visual poetry.  Then religion comes along -- and we have a god.  In my opinion.

 

:mellow:

 

 

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7 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

In fairness, there is more to it than that.  People really enjoy creating personifications.  The process of creating concrete forms for abstract things.  I'll leave the why of it to Psychologists and Anthropologists.

 

Consider the Statue of Liberty.  We need only add an altar and a priesthood, and we can actually worship at Freedom's feet.

 

Old Man Winter is on TV commercials.   The poor old deity has been reduced to selling snow tires.

 

I expect that this tendency to personification has been with us, as long as there have been people.  That does not mean that anybody thinks these entities exist as anything more than visual poetry.  Then religion comes along -- and we have a god.  In my opinion.

 

:mellow:

 

 

 

And then there is even more to it:

 

If we take a (very basic) look at some gradations of religions (basically from the "natural" polytheistic all the way to the three "big" monotheistic religions from today) we see a historical clear shifting from "explain[-ing] how the world works" to "controlling the masses". The denser the populations of humanity became the more we shifted towards monotheism and the clergy to "support" it...




 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, RevBogovac said:

 

And then there is even more to it:

 

If we take a (very basic) look at some gradations of religions (basically from the "natural" polytheistic all the way to the three "big" monotheistic religions from today) we see a historical clear shifting from "explain[-ing] how the world works" to "controlling the masses". The denser the populations of humanity became the more we shifted towards monotheism and the clergy to "support" it...




 

 

 

 

 

I understand the development of the gods, in a somewhat different manner.

 

Consider the "Mighty Thor" of Norse mythos.  The Mighty Thor personifies Chaos.

  • He is the god of Thunder.  Thor personifies the Chaos of the Storm.
  • He is a war god.  Thor personifies the Chaos of Battle.

Which brings us to magic.  A priest who can influence The Mighty Thor, can influence the forces of chaos.

 

Which brings us to God with the big G.  God who personifies everything.

  • All Powerful
  • All Knowing

I think God's priesthood was trying to control, or at least influence, the ultimate power.  To have the ultimate magic.  Alas for them, they lost control of their creation and became it's servants.  It was Freud who observed -- "Man created God in his own image."

 

I can't prove anything.  This is simply my sense of things.

 

:mellow:

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

I understand the development of the gods, in a somewhat different manner.

 

Consider the "Mighty Thor" of Norse mythos.  The Mighty Thor personifies Chaos.

  • He is the god of Thunder.  Thor personifies the Chaos of the Storm.
  • He is a war god.  Thor personifies the Chaos of Battle.

Which brings us to magic.  A priest who can influence The Mighty Thor, can influence the forces of chaos.

 

Which brings us to God with the big G.  God who personifies everything.

  • All Powerful
  • All Knowing

I think God's priesthood was trying to control, or at least influence, the ultimate power.  To have the ultimate magic.  Alas for them, they lost control of their creation and became it's servants.  It was Freud who observed -- "Man created God in his own image."

 

I can't prove anything.  This is simply my sense of things.

 

:mellow:

 

 

But the sole fact that the gods evolved is an interesting one...

 

If we look at the scientific process we make conjectures/hypotheses, design and execute experiments to check our predictions and then either accept, adjust or reject the theory.

 

If we look at the evolving of gods (in the light of this process cycle) your Freud quote comes to mind... :coffee:

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, RevBogovac said:

 

 

But the sole fact that the gods evolved is an interesting one...

 

If we look at the scientific process we make conjectures/hypotheses, design and execute experiments to check our predictions and then either accept, adjust or reject the theory.

 

If we look at the evolving of gods (in the light of this process cycle) your Freud quote comes to mind... :coffee:

 

 

 

 

 

The old gods have changes of name and form.  They never go away.  Mother Nature looks a lot like the ancient Earth Goddess.

 

Sometimes, the old gods hide in plain sight.  Cupid is -- Cupid.  Complete with bow and arrows.

 

If you're in the mood, I can go off on a rant about Santa.

 

:bye:

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On 2/19/2021 at 11:41 AM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

The old gods have changes of name and form.  They never go away.  Mother Nature looks a lot like the ancient Earth Goddess.

 

Sometimes, the old gods hide in plain sight.  Cupid is -- Cupid.  Complete with bow and arrows.

 

If you're in the mood, I can go off on a rant about Santa.

 

:bye:

 

That's the fun part; the "old" gods were just here to explain natural phenomena and to establish a "calendar" for cycles that had to be honoured for our survival and social well being...

 

The monotheistic gods were made my humans (to go with Freud on this one) to be able to control large groups of (other) humans...

 

At least so it seems... :coffee:

 

And don't get me started on Santa, as I live in the Netherlands where the traditional feasts of Saint Nicolas are still being honoured (5/6 december)...

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3 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

That's the fun part; the "old" gods were just here to explain natural phenomena and to establish a "calendar" for cycles that had to be honoured for our survival and social well being...

 

The monotheistic gods were made my humans (to go with Freud on this one) to be able to control large groups of (other) humans...

 

At least so it seems... :coffee:

 

And don't get me started on Santa, as I live in the Netherlands where the traditional feasts of Saint Nicolas are still being honoured (5/6 december)...

 

 

This is simplistic.  There are two forces at work here.  There is the desire of the priest class, to enslave others.  This, you are aware of.  You overlook the obvious.  The desire of the masses to be enslaved.  To have God -- or at least God's priests -- do their thinking for them.  To run their lives and tell them what to think and what to do.  To escape the burden of freedom.

 

The religious love their chains.               :whist:               :sigh2:

 

:mellow:

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

This is simplistic.  There are two forces at work here.  There is the desire of the priest class, to enslave others.  This, you are aware of.  You overlook the obvious.  The desire of the masses to be enslaved.  To have God -- or at least God's priests -- do their thinking for them.  To run their lives and tell them what to think and what to do.  To escape the burden of freedom.

 

The religious love their chains.               :whist:               :sigh2:

 

:mellow:

 

Oh, I was just thinking about this when I read your post in the "Hedonism" topic about happy individuals...

 

O how the sheep love their shepherds... forgetting what a shepherd eventually does to his sheep... :coffee:

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2 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

Oh, I was just thinking about this when I read your post in the "Hedonism" topic about happy individuals...

 

O how the sheep love their shepherds... forgetting what a shepherd eventually does to his sheep... :coffee:

 

 

"Modern" urban people know nothing about shepherds.  You are spot on.  Real shepherds kill their sheep, eat their flesh and wear their skins.  This, after a lifetime of "fleecing".

 

If the sheep knew more about their shepherds -- or their politicians -- they would take their chances with the wolves.

 

Psalm 23

The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. ...
 
The sheep do not understand what the shepherd sees in them.  They are property.  The shepherd owns them.  This is not about love.
 
:mellow:
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On 2/22/2021 at 7:24 PM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

"Modern" urban people know nothing about shepherds.  You are spot on.  Real shepherds kill their sheep, eat their flesh and wear their skins.  This, after a lifetime of "fleecing".

 

If the sheep knew more about their shepherds -- or their politicians -- they would take their chances with the wolves.

 

Psalm 23

The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. ...
 
The sheep do not understand what the shepherd sees in them.  They are property.  The shepherd owns them.  This is not about love.
 
:mellow:

 

 

But it is sooooo scary to make your own decisions... :whist:

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4 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

 

But it is sooooo scary to make your own decisions... :whist:

 

 

Of course it is.  That is why people want God to be real.  Why sheep follow shepherds.  Why authoritarians like Trump prosper.  Peter Pan lives.  "I won't grow up."

 

:mellow:

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  • 6 months later...

Hello, My name is Manuel, I have worked now almost 25 years with the Biblical Hebrew text of the Torah and other books in relation to those studies in the Tanach. The reason I am writing this is in reply to this article and its pronouncements. I think I have something that needs to be said: Yes. There is a 'God'. And there is practical repeatable by experiment, proof of that depending on whether a person is given the proper knowledge of how to produce it. The book of Daniel tells of a time when what 'Daniel' (which I hold were a group of the High Priesthood of Israel) hid away by his 'closing the words and sealing the Book' would come to be again known. That something is only left to us in clues, in old Sage writings and Books of what are considered legend; The Zohar in particular the Book of Concealment (Sifra di'Tznu-ita), Sefer Yetzirah, even the Talmud. There are symbols given in these books. Symbolic image sets that speak enigmatically to some deep teaching supposedly. What they really are none can tell you that lives. NOT ONE. Because of the actions to close the words and seal the Book. The Book is not the book of Daniel it is the Chumash, the Five Books of Moses - which are actually one book, when properly exhibited it reveals a running set of images within its corpus. A complete set of the Zodiac, the Tarot, and legends woven in geometries of letter formations that form images. I was hoping to post my paper as an offering to the ULC for my final. It is too big to post, so I can only tell you I have a BLOG that I just posted my Thesis to, if any want to know where to find it feel free to ask. BUT in closing let me say, a book of pictures yes, and more. In my time with the text I have come to find it is actually a log of main events in human history stretching from the past to our day for sure. You might consider me crazy, but consider this: "Thou, o Daniel close up the words, and seal the Book, until the time of the end; when many shall run to and fro, and knowing shall be increased." - note he didn't say who or how only it would be opened in a time when many run to and fro and knowing would be increased. I can tell you from my point of view this is that time; and why I believe it shows a proof is rather simple: Tell me, WHO knew the line of Time in 1500 B.C.E., that ran from the past to our day and could put it encoded into letters in a text that was collated over a period of 65 years or more? Humans may have collated and collected and spoken the stories that were scribed in Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy - and they rewrote and edited it all over the place as well - but I can tell you the Mind that put all the information in the text: THAT is not human. So Who was it?outline_hp.jpg.85b147a4ea1c37bdfbf780ab25f2b94e.jpg

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49 minutes ago, TempleKeeper said:

Hello, My name is Manuel, I have worked now almost 25 years with the Biblical Hebrew text of the Torah and other books in relation to those studies in the Tanach. The reason I am writing this is in reply to this article and its pronouncements. I think I have something that needs to be said: Yes. There is a 'God'. And there is practical repeatable by experiment, proof of that depending on whether a person is given the proper knowledge of how to produce it. The book of Daniel tells of a time when what 'Daniel' (which I hold were a group of the High Priesthood of Israel) hid away by his 'closing the words and sealing the Book' would come to be again known. That something is only left to us in clues, in old Sage writings and Books of what are considered legend; The Zohar in particular the Book of Concealment (Sifra di'Tznu-ita), Sefer Yetzirah, even the Talmud. There are symbols given in these books. Symbolic image sets that speak enigmatically to some deep teaching supposedly. What they really are none can tell you that lives. NOT ONE. Because of the actions to close the words and seal the Book. The Book is not the book of Daniel it is the Chumash, the Five Books of Moses - which are actually one book, when properly exhibited it reveals a running set of images within its corpus. A complete set of the Zodiac, the Tarot, and legends woven in geometries of letter formations that form images. I was hoping to post my paper as an offering to the ULC for my final. It is too big to post, so I can only tell you I have a BLOG that I just posted my Thesis to, if any want to know where to find it feel free to ask. BUT in closing let me say, a book of pictures yes, and more. In my time with the text I have come to find it is actually a log of main events in human history stretching from the past to our day for sure. You might consider me crazy, but consider this: "Thou, o Daniel close up the words, and seal the Book, until the time of the end; when many shall run to and fro, and knowing shall be increased." - note he didn't say who or how only it would be opened in a time when many run to and fro and knowing would be increased. I can tell you from my point of view this is that time; and why I believe it shows a proof is rather simple: Tell me, WHO knew the line of Time in 1500 B.C.E., that ran from the past to our day and could put it encoded into letters in a text that was collated over a period of 65 years or more? Humans may have collated and collected and spoken the stories that were scribed in Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy - and they rewrote and edited it all over the place as well - but I can tell you the Mind that put all the information in the text: THAT is not human. So Who was it?

 

 

Do you have anything to offer beside bald assertions; unsupported by anything?

 

:mellow:

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

Do you have anything to offer beside bald assertions; unsupported by anything?

 

:mellow:

 

 

 

As I said, "https://grimoireofmanuelthescribe.blogspot.com/2021/09/if-kirby-j-hensley-was-referred-to-as.html". There is no seeking a following or any such thing - its entire purpose is to awaken the human intellect to an information paradox that resides in the text. All instructions are included - you can choose to do the experiment for yourself (which is best) or follow the directions I give you on my website after you read the blog. That is located at: "https://www.colunga-hernandez.com" And no.., it is gratis. And keep in mind this is only the surface of a very large Black Hole. It starts with Mathematics, doesn't everything?

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21 hours ago, TempleKeeper said:

As I said, "https://grimoireofmanuelthescribe.blogspot.com/2021/09/if-kirby-j-hensley-was-referred-to-as.html". There is no seeking a following or any such thing - its entire purpose is to awaken the human intellect to an information paradox that resides in the text. All instructions are included - you can choose to do the experiment for yourself (which is best) or follow the directions I give you on my website after you read the blog. That is located at: "https://www.colunga-hernandez.com" And no.., it is gratis. And keep in mind this is only the surface of a very large Black Hole. It starts with Mathematics, doesn't everything?

 

 

I followed your link.  This blend of Scripture, Kabbalah, Tarot, gematria and physics is not proof of anything.  Alright.  You believe.  I don't argue with what people believe.  It is not in any way objective proof for God's existence.  Something which you did not define.  In any event, this esoteric soup is not evidence.

 

:mellow:

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15 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

I followed your link.  This blend of Scripture, Kabbalah, Tarot, gematria and physics is not proof of anything.  Alright.  You believe.  I don't argue with what people believe.  It is not in any way objective proof for God's existence.  Something which you did not define.  In any event, this esoteric soup is not evidence.

 

:mellow:

ϱod people are silly

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49 minutes ago, damnthing said:

ϱod people are silly

 

 

I'm going to split a few hairs with you over this.  Their ideas are silly.  The people themselves are deeply conditioned.  Deep conditioning is not silly.  It's what happens when a religious culture can't tell the difference between symbolic representations of reality -- and reality.

 

If people want to spend their days, working out the hidden mathematics of Bible Hebrew -- it's their time to waste.  Well, that's a little harsh.  If it makes them happy, then so be it.  Everybody needs a hobby.

 

Ave Satanus.          :diablo:

 

 

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