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Jonathan H. B. Lobl

The Jews for Jesus Movement and Antisemitism

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This topic will be controversial.  The Jews for Jesus are/is having a debate on the topic of antisemitism.  In particular, the question of whether the Christian Scriptures are, themselves, antisemitic and a source of antisemitism.

 

In fairness, I must put my own bias up front.  I am a Jewish Atheist.  I have definite thoughts on the history of antisemitism.  In terms of scriptural theology, I'm not clear on how much I actually have a dog in this race.

 

I think this topic can fuel interesting conversation.  The fuel can also be explosive.  This is a time for tactful and cautious restraint.  I will be on my good behavior.   On balance, I'm optimistic.  The board can use some serious conversation.  If we have any Messianic Jewish lurkers, perhaps they will come out of hiding.  Here goes.

 

 

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/why-you-should-support-my-upcoming-debate-with-rabbi-shmuley-boteach/?utm_source=The+Blogs+Weekly+Highlights&utm_campaign=blogs-weekly-highlights-2019-08-01&utm_medium=email

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12 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 […]  I am a Jewish Atheist. […]

 

There are not a lot of places where you can say this out loud... 😁

 

But... being an Orthodox Christian Atheist I can - wholeheartedly- say: YES, christian scriptures are perceived by Orthodox Christians as Antisemitic (and openly practiced as such).

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1 hour ago, RevBogovac said:

 

There are not a lot of places where you can say this out loud... 😁

 

But... being an Orthodox Christian Atheist I can - wholeheartedly- say: YES, christian scriptures are perceived by Orthodox Christians as Antisemitic (and openly practiced as such).

 

 

I don't have numbers for you.  Many Jews are deeply religious.  Many are Atheists.  It's an old joke.  There is no God and we are his people.     

 

:birgits_giggle:

 

 

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On 8/2/2019 at 7:33 AM, RevBogovac said:

 

There are not a lot of places where you can say this out loud... 😁

 

But... being an Orthodox Christian Atheist I can - wholeheartedly- say: YES, christian scriptures are perceived by Orthodox Christians as Antisemitic (and openly practiced as such).

 

 

Quite right.  And I shared that perception when I read those scriptures.  Of course, the Gospels are antisemitic. 

 

"By their fruits you will know them."  What were the fruits of the Gospels?  Two thousand years of persecution and hatred.  The Jews were accused of "Killing Christ."  This is no dramatic flourish.  My mother, now 99, remembers from her childhood -- the little girl from next door.  She refused to play with my mother, because my mother had killed Christ.  I have other family traditions.  And personal experiences.  Later for both.

 

The Gospels were not written by historians, as we now know the term.  The Gospels were written by propagandists, working with the Roman government, to spread the new religion into the gentile world.  Of course, the Jewish leadership had to be the bad guys of the story.  They had to explain why the Jews were not part of their Jewish movement.  Why their risen Christ did not have a Jewish following.  Why the vast majority of Jews wanted nothing to do with them or their movement.  They sure couldn't blame the government of Rome.  That would have gotten them executed.  We all know how the Roman government, executed members of disloyal movements.  Look at the sign they put over the head of Jesus.

 

I expect that we have all been sprayed by Christian Apologetics.  Sprayed, that is, in the sense that a skunk will spray it's victims.

 

  • Jesus, his mother and all the early disciples were all Jewish.
  • No true Christian -- No Authentic follower -- etc. etc. ad nauseum -- would be antisemitic.
  • The Scriptures are from God and God is not antisemitic.  

 

Even now, I find myself taking a lot of this clap personally.  Jewish history speaks for itself.  So does family history.  One of the few Russian words that I know is Pogrom.

 

One final thought.  This is purely an emotional outburst on my part.  If any pious Christian wants to tell me that I'm mistaken about Christ -- or True Christians -- or Scripture -- or Theology -- well then.  ** you and the horse you rode in on.

 

Thank you for listening.  End of rant.

 

:whist:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

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Originally a sarcastic comment directed toward Felix Adler who left behind rabbinic studies and founded the Society for Ehical Culture, later adapted by substituting the name of Mordecai Kaplan, founder of The Reconstructionist movement in Judaism, - There is no G-d and Felix Adler is his prophet.

 

Thee is, of course, the Secular Humanistic Judaism movement, founded by Rabbi Sherwin Wine. The movement is atheistic. The flagship,congregation is the Birmingham Temple in Michigan.

 

For the moment I'm just going to sit over here in the corner and enjoy a cup of coffee and a bagel with a shmear while waiting to see what develops.

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2 hours ago, RabbiO said:

Originally a sarcastic comment directed toward Felix Adler who left behind rabbinic studies and founded the Society for Ehical Culture, later adapted by substituting the name of Mordecai Kaplan, founder of The Reconstructionist movement in Judaism, - There is no G-d and Felix Adler is his prophet.

 

Thee is, of course, the Secular Humanistic Judaism movement, founded by Rabbi Sherwin Wine. The movement is atheistic. The flagship,congregation is the Birmingham Temple in Michigan.

 

For the moment I'm just going to sit over here in the corner and enjoy a cup of coffee and a bagel with a shmear while waiting to see what develops.

 

Years ago, when I was a student at CCNY; the rabbi at my Hillel was Reconstructionist.  Judaism as a Civilization.  An interesting thought.  Not much to base a life on.  I read the book.  It was highly forgettable.

 

More recently, I read Judaism beyond God.  Sherwin Wine is clear about what is wrong with Judaism.  Beyond that?  A sloppy sentimentality.  I couldn't figure out what he's for.  I think if it has any long term effect at all; it will help the assimilation process.  For the Jews who don't want to swallow their Judaism.  It lets them put it in the refrigerator.  They can throw it out later.

 

My childhood introduction to Judaism, was Reform Sunday school.  Not a lot of substance.  Mostly a prolonged history lesson, about what they did to us.  

 

When I was an undergraduate, I fell in with a Chabad Lubavitch crowd.  That was an education.

 

I also encountered the Jews for Jesus movement.  New York City is a nexus for their activities.  Words fail.  Well.  One word.  Gevalt.

 

Enjoy your bagel.

 

:whist:

 

 

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