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Pete

Transference objects and mental mechanisms

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A transference object can relate to a child with a teddy bear that gives them confort, cuddles, and company when away from their parents love.

A mental mechanism is a reaction to protect the security of an individual. For example blaming something upon another when the conflict is within them or denying something to protect from anxiety. 

Frued believed that religion is a form of a mental mechanism because its belief helps an individual cope with the struggle and pain of life. Although Frued is ssid to be dated now, however he was the first to recognise the influence of the past and developmental stages.

I am not saying that we should destroy another's faith but I am interested in your thoughts on whether you think religion is a mental mechanism or indeed a transference object. I hope for enlightened discussion. 

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I don't know for every religious person, but many i have met and spoken with seem to use religion to abdicate responsibility in one way or another.  They say, 'god has a plan'.  If true, who could possibly go against such a beings will?  Or the devil made me do it...i mean, really?

 

Very few religious people I've spoken to accept their actions as truly theirs.  This isnt exclusive to christians, btw, or even monotheists.

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So maybe a denial of responsibility by seperating themselves from their actions? A god forgave me so it's not for anyone else to poke beyond that.

I know religion often allows a person to move on from previous behaviours. That can be positive or negative if they deny that they ever had responsibility or as you say blame it on a devil or god.

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1 hour ago, Pete said:

A transference object can relate to a child with a teddy bear that gives them confort, cuddles, and company when away from their parents love.

A mental mechanism is a reaction to protect the security of an individual. For example blaming something upon another when the conflict is within them or denying something to protect from anxiety. 

Frued believed that religion is a form of a mental mechanism because its belief helps an individual cope with the struggle and pain of life. Although Frued is ssid to be dated now, however he was the first to recognise the influence of the past and developmental stages.

I am not saying that we should destroy another's faith but I am interested in your thoughts on whether you think religion is a mental mechanism or indeed a transference object. I hope for enlightened discussion. 

 

 

Since you asked -- I think that God belief is an addictive, feel good, emotional drug.  The religious are addicts -- and the churches are drug pushers.

 

Since you asked.  I'm in a mood to speak bluntly and to the point.

 

To specifics.  You speak of Transference objects.  What is prayer, but talking to an imaginary friend?  Clearly, a regression to early childhood.  Also, a substitute for real friends.

 

 

 

 

 

:whist:

 

 

Edited by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

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The question I ask is not what is a persons religion but what does that religion serve cognitively in that person.

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17 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

Since you asked -- I think that God belief is an addictive, feel good, emotional drug.  The religious are addicts -- and the churches are drug pushers.

 

Since you asked.  I'm in a mood to speak bluntly and to the point.

 

To specifics.  You speak of Transference objects.  What is prayer, but talking to an imaginary friend?  Clearly, a regression to early childhood.  Also, a substitute for real friends.

 

 

 

 

 

:whist:

 

 

I remember a tutor saying "let us pray" is an invitation to self hypnosis as it makes a person pliable as they switch off and go to an abiance state for the minister to mold.

Edited by Pete

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29 minutes ago, Pete said:

So maybe a denial of responsibility by seperating themselves from their actions? A god forgave me so it's not for anyone else to poke beyond that.

I know religion often allows a person to move on from previous behaviours. That can be positive or negative if they deny that they ever had responsibility or as you say blame it on a devil or god.

 

 

It's so much more basic.  As in -- I'm weak and pitiful and pathetic and flawed and sinful and shameful -- because Adam and Eve ate the fruit in the Garden of Eden.  Now, I'm in a Fallen State.  Worse, I must beg the Righteous God to save me, because on my own merit, I can't possibly earn salvation.  I'm way to disgusting, even to be in God's Holy presence.  It must be a gift, because I am so pathetic and unworthy.

 

The basic proposition, could not possibly be more insulting, more demeaning or more disempowering.  

 

Add a few layers of crap.  What happens when God forgives me?  What happens if I lose that forgiveness?  Classic drug addiction.  Emotional highs, followed by devastating lows.

 

:whist:

 

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Pete said:

The question I ask is not what is a persons religion but what does that religion serve cognitively in that person.

 

 

Talking to an invisible friend?  It's a reversion to childhood and an impediment to emotional development.  

 

:whist:

 

 

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There are also strokes. Letting go the past, a catalyst to change and a social medium in a controlled environment. Some fear social events unless the expectations are pre planned in advance or it has boundaries on what to expect. Others need it because it maybe all that holds them together in what can be a cruel world. It can be the opiate of the people and I believe that is why nations bring it into their institutions.  Also opiates can be soothing providing you have safe guards. There use in surgery is essential.

Edited by Pete

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59 minutes ago, Pete said:

I remember a tutor saying "let us pray" is an invitation to self hypnosis as it makes a person pliable as they switch off and go to an abiance state for the minister to mold.

 

 

"Let us pray" assumes consent.  More, it is a command.  In a church, this is reasonable.  In a secular setting -- like a government function -- or a graduation -- it is a violation of integrity.

 

Such violation comes in different forms.  For me, the most hateful, that come to mind, is turning the Pledge of Allegiance into a prayer.  

 

I think the switch over in National Motto to, One Nation Under God, comes in a close second.  It is a forced seizure of secular space.

 

:whist:

 

 

 

 

Edited by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

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Same here. Our national anthem " is unprovable diety bless a royal leader I do not believe in". Nothing about us plebs. I am not a royalist.

Edited by Pete

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5 minutes ago, Pete said:

Same here. Our national anthem " is unprovable diety bless a royal leader I do not believe in". Nothing about us plebs. I am not a royalist.

 

 

I hear that loud and clear.  Of course, it's deeper.  One of the Queen's titles is, Defender of the Faith.  Alas, it comes with having a national church.  In your place, I would also not be thrilled, with having Bishops in the government.

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10 minutes ago, Pete said:

Dìtto.

 

 

Then again, on balance, America has more piety.  The grass is always greener, in someone else's Hell.

 

Neither of us lives in -- say Uganda -- where the crazies beat children to death, in exorcisms.

 

There was a time, when Christianity was firmly in control of everything.  We call it, the Dark Ages.

 

:whist:

 

 

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I always say the church showed us Hell and killed many doing it. The Church of England (not the only church) often prays for the royal family. I discovered in some larger cathedrals they used to have torture chambers to enforce their will. Most likely tortured Jews and others who they called heretics but most likely just disagreed with them. I fear missionaries went to other countries and taught old school religion but forgot to ask them to question it. Totally brutal. Some ministers want their authority returned. I say look at what happened in Ireland and children's homes and schools in both countries.

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2 hours ago, Pete said:

I always say the church showed us Hell and killed many doing it. The Church of England (not the only church) often prays for the royal family. I discovered in some larger cathedrals they used to have torture chambers to enforce their will. Most likely tortured Jews and others who they called heretics but most likely just disagreed with them. I fear missionaries went to other countries and taught old school religion but forgot to ask them to question it. Totally brutal. Some ministers want their authority returned. I say look at what happened in Ireland and children's homes and schools in both countries.

 

Yes.  The Irish laundries.  I know about that one.

 

 

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Yes the abuse was world wide and they covered it up was terrible. All hiding behind a belief that ministers/church employees were trustworthy and honest. It's that not being able to question for fear they are sinning some how.

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42 minutes ago, Pete said:

Yes the abuse was world wide and they covered it up was terrible. All hiding behind a belief that ministers/church employees were trustworthy and honest. It's that not being able to question for fear they are sinning some how.

 

 

The sins of the Catholic Church are difficult to list, both for quantity and depth of horror.  Also, for variety.  Child rape, slavery,  torture, antisemitism, religious warfare, genocide, crimes against gay people, forced conversions, the Spanish Inquisition, Counter Reformations, witch trials with torture, mass murder; atrocity in Mexico, Central and South America; Crusades; the Albigensian Heresy  -- where do you want to go with this?  The rot is deep.  If we start, it will be difficult to stop.

 

 

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True, but it ain't just them. It shows how religion can get people to accept the unacceptable. It creates a silence where anger should shown.

Edited by Pete

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4 hours ago, Pete said:

True, but it ain't just them. It shows how religion can get people to accept the unacceptable. It creates a silence where anger should shown.

 

 

Yes.  Now your meaning is more clear.

 

We can go directly to the example, set by God himself.  Humanity, Every creature that wasn't on the boat -- and all plant life everywhere.  The All Knowing, All benevolent, etc. killed the entire planet.  A crime beyond genocide.  Everything, everywhere was killed.

 

The religious make excuses, for this, the ultimate crime.

 

:whist:

 

 

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