Jonathan H. B. Lobl

Apa-theism: Not caring whether or not God exists

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An addendum:  I was too slow with my editing.

 

The Boy Scouts of America won't admit Atheist Scouts.  Not that a Scout has to say that he's an Atheist.  Atheists can be Scouts -- if they just shut up and pretend belief.  Of course, if they admit to being Atheists, after being admitted, they risk getting kicked out of Scouting.

 

The same way that Atheist adults can lose their jobs, or their residence,  or friends and family, if they are foolish enough to come out of the religious closet.

 

:sigh2:

 

 

Edited by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

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On 7/15/2018 at 11:10 PM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

This is your analysis?  That I have an attitude?

 

I tried the Atheist label.  What could be more harmless than -- I don't believe?  The religious took it as a personal affront.  As though I were repudiating everything that mattered to them.  All those silly arguments about Scripture and metaphysics...…..

 

I tried the Agnostic label.  What could be more harmless than -- I don't know?  The religious took it as indecisive.  Wishy washy.  Spineless.  You quoted Romans at me.  "God spits out those who are neither hot nor cold."  All those silly arguments about knowledge and what is knowable -- distinct from belief.

 

I went with Apatheist.  What could be more harmless than -- I don't care?  No more arguments about belief.  No more arguments about knowledge.  Now -- you think I have an attitude?  Because I don't care and I'm tired of arguing?

 

I'm going to stop now -- before I say something that I'll have to apologize for.

 

 

It just seems like a sad way to go through life.  I don't believe is understandable,  I don't know is understandable, but I don't care is irresponsible.. Being apathetical towards anything is negative, its not an opinion, its just approaching life with a "I don't give a damn" attitude, and I don't see how that's beneficial to anyone.

 

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6 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

It just seems like a sad way to go through life.  I don't believe is understandable,  I don't know is understandable, but I don't care is irresponsible.. Being apathetical towards anything is negative, its not an opinion, its just approaching life with a "I don't give a damn" attitude, and I don't see how that's beneficial to anyone.

 

 

I am experiencing philosophic drift.  When I was working with Atheism -- or Agnosticism -- What I got from you was a mixture of smugness, superiority, and lack of respect.  And arguments.  Lots and lots of arguments.  And putting up with your re-defining of Atheism and Agnosticism.  Now, after all those insults, you tell me that you could understand those positions.  Interesting.  But you don't understand not caring.  Interesting.

 

I have discovered that it doesn't matter.  That none of it matters.  Arguments over Scripture, just to be told that I don't understand.  Arguments over metaphysics, just to be told that I don't understand.  Why?  What have I gotten from all those efforts?  Nothing.  It's like going through life arguing about the existence of Santa.

 

I can't do it any more.  I'm worn out with this nonsense.  The wind has gone out of my sail.  And no.  I don't care whether or not God exists.  At the end of the day, it changes nothing.

 

A simple thought experiment:

 

Pretend, for the sake of argument, that God exists.  What changes?  Nothing.

 

Pretend, for the sake of argument, that God does not exist.  What changes?  Nothing.

 

We have no objective facts about God.  None at all.  So I can take the Agnostic label.  Because I don't know.  Nobody does.  Or I could take the Atheist label, because I don't believe.  Belief is silly without any facts at all.  Bleeping crap -- what's the point?  It doesn't matter.  And I'm done.

 

Oh.  As to your perceptions of what's beneficial --  your issues.  Not mine.    :D

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

When I was working with Atheism -- or Agnosticism -- What I got from you was a mixture of smugness, superiority, and lack of respect.

 

Nonsense, you simply got disagreement...  Because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them smug, because they have a different belief doesn't make them superior, and because they don't accept your pov isn't disrespectful.

 

5 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

And putting up with your re-defining of Atheism and Agnosticism. .. But you don't understand not caring.  Interesting.

 

Atheism is not believing in any deity, Agnosticism is not knowing if God exist... How did I redefine  something so simple?

And "Not Caring" is a simple concept to understand, its what a person says when they don't care.

 

5 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Arguments over Scripture, just to be told that I don't understand.....  What have I gotten from all those efforts?  Nothing. 

 

You understand, you just don't believe.

What did you expect to get from expressing your opinion? They are just discussions, some interesting and some not.

 

5 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

I can't do it any more.  I don't care whether or not God exists.  At the end of the day, it changes nothing.

 

You don't need to do anything, and your under no pressure to change anyone's mind .. Some people care and others don't.

 

5 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Pretend, for the sake of argument, that God exists.  What changes?  Nothing.

 

I disagree.. Surprised? If God exist, it changes everything, it means that a Supreme Being created us, is in charge, and controls our destiny after death.

 

5 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Belief is silly without any facts at all.

 

Without any facts that you've chosen to accept... But as I've stated repeatedly, there 's a written record witnessed by many people, there's archaeological discoveries, fulfilled prophetic  evidence, etc...  This is all enough to inspire many to believe.

 

5 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

As to your perceptions of what's beneficial --  your issues.  Not mine.

 

Its just my opinion that searching and believing about the unknown is beneficial. Curiosity and hope are inherent in the human psyche,  turning that sense of wonderment off (don't care) seems to leave a person dead in the water. 

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14 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

In my opinion, manners are good and civility is a virtue.  For all that, the meek do not inherit the Earth.  They get eaten.  People who don't demand respect, don't get any.  

That has not been my experience. I have been told it's just my White Privilege, but my experience is my experience, you know? I get respect from most people without demanding it, and I find that people who only give respect to those who demand it are people whose opinions I don't respect. And while the meek do get eaten, the aggressive tend to grind themselves to dust. It seems to be a toss up as far as who will outlast who.

 

Personally, I know that I like being nice and I don't like being mean. I mean, I like pretend mean, like insult comedy or practical jokes, but deliberately trying to hurt people always makes me feel bad. Not always right away, but always. I have heard violence likened to crack cocaine. The rush is awesome, but there's always a price to pay.

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1 hour ago, Dan56 said:

 

Nonsense, you simply got disagreement...  Because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them smug, because they have a different belief doesn't make them superior, and because they don't accept your pov isn't disrespectful.

 

 

Atheism is not believing in any deity, Agnosticism is not knowing if God exist... How did I redefine  something so simple?

And "Not Caring" is a simple concept to understand, its what a person says when they don't care.

 

 

You understand, you just don't believe.

What did you expect to get from expressing your opinion? They are just discussions, some interesting and some not.

 

 

You don't need to do anything, and your under no pressure to change anyone's mind .. Some people care and others don't.

 

 

I disagree.. Surprised? If God exist, it changes everything, it means that a Supreme Being created us, is in charge, and controls our destiny after death.

 

 

Without any facts that you've chosen to accept... But as I've stated repeatedly, there 's a written record witnessed by many people, there's archaeological discoveries, fulfilled prophetic  evidence, etc...  This is all enough to inspire many to believe.

 

 

Its just my opinion that searching and believing about the unknown is beneficial. Curiosity and hope are inherent in the human psyche,  turning that sense of wonderment off (don't care) seems to leave a person dead in the water. 

 

 

Such wonderful consistency.  You'll never change.

 

 

:giveup:

 

 

Seriously.  I'm done arguing.  

Edited by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

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1 hour ago, mererdog said:

That has not been my experience. I have been told it's just my White Privilege, but my experience is my experience, you know? I get respect from most people without demanding it, and I find that people who only give respect to those who demand it are people whose opinions I don't respect. And while the meek do get eaten, the aggressive tend to grind themselves to dust. It seems to be a toss up as far as who will outlast who.

 

Personally, I know that I like being nice and I don't like being mean. I mean, I like pretend mean, like insult comedy or practical jokes, but deliberately trying to hurt people always makes me feel bad. Not always right away, but always. I have heard violence likened to crack cocaine. The rush is awesome, but there's always a price to pay.

 

This is good.  Oh, we have our clashes -- but I love these core values.   :drinks:

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7 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

Such wonderful consistency.  You'll never change

 

Thank you

 

7 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Seriously.  I'm done arguing.  

 

That's good, because no one was arguing with you... Sometimes you just get all agitated and worked-up over nothing and end up feeling frazzled.

 

9 hours ago, mererdog said:

And while the meek do get eaten, the aggressive tend to grind themselves to dust. It seems to be a toss up as far as who will outlast who.

 

"Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth." (Matthew 5:5)
 

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8 hours ago, Dan56 said:

"Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth." (Matthew 5:5)
 

Yes, that is the quote we were discussing.

Just so you know, that bit about "get all agitated and worked-up over nothing and end up feeling all frazzled" is not helpful. As a rule, pointing out the flaws you think you see in others is considered rude, provided they did not ask you to do so. Even where the analysis is accurate, rather than prompting introspection and self-improvement, it will usually cause antagonism and strife.

Edited by mererdog

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19 minutes ago, mererdog said:

Yes, that is the quote we were discussing.

Just so you know, that bit about "get all agitated and worked-up over nothing and end up feeling all frazzled" is not helpful. As a rule, pointing out the flaws you see in others is considered rude, provided they did not ask you to do so. Rather than prompting introspection and self-improvement, it will usually cause antagonism and strife.

 

Thank you for understanding.  Well, it doesn't matter any more.  I've let it go.  "The Dude abides."

 

:D

 

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6 hours ago, mererdog said:

 

Just so you know, that bit about "get all agitated and worked-up over nothing and end up feeling all frazzled" is not helpful. As a rule, pointing out the flaws you think you see in others is considered rude, provided they did not ask you to do so. Even where the analysis is accurate, rather than prompting introspection and self-improvement, it will usually cause antagonism and strife.

 

Probably true, but I observed that a person was getting agitated over a non-existent argument, so it was my intention to try and calm those intense feelings down, not to incite antagonism. Remember, I simply gave my opinion of apatheism, and in response I got; "What I got from you was a mixture of smugness, superiority, and lack of respect". That's not a discussion or disagreement, its a response from someone who had no answer and got all frizzled.. I don't get it, but Its his topic, so I'll step out of this thread and leave it to those who care about not caring. :)  

Edited by Dan56

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4 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 someone who had no answer and got all frizzled..

You agree it would probably engender antagonism, Johnathan made it clear that it was engendering antagonism, and you did it again. You see that, right?

Edited by mererdog

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4 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

Probably true, but I observed that a person was getting agitated over a non-existent argument, so it was my intention to try and calm those intense feelings down, not to incite antagonism. Remember, I simply gave my opinion of apatheism, and in response I got; "What I got from you was a mixture of smugness, superiority, and lack of respect". That's not a discussion or disagreement, its a response from someone who had no answer and got all frizzled.. I don't get it, but Its his topic, so I'll step out of this thread and leave it to those who care about not caring. :)  

 

 

Such amazing consistency.  Truly, you will never change.

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23 minutes ago, mererdog said:

You agree it would probably engender antagonism, Johnathan made it clear that it was engendering antagonism, and you did it again. You see that, right?

 

 

Thank you for your concern.  It's just Dan, showing us how Christian he is.  Displaying his values.  His empathy.  His ethics.

 

 

Edited by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

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5 hours ago, mererdog said:

You agree it would probably engender antagonism, Johnathan made it clear that it was engendering antagonism, and you did it again. You see that, right?

 

No, I don't see it.... Probably because I myself would not be antagonized by the truth. Consider this quick example, Jonathan asked; "Pretend, for the sake of argument, that God exists.  What changes?  Nothing". My answer; "If God exist, it changes everything, it means that a Supreme Being created us, is in charge, and controls our destiny after death". His response; "Such wonderful consistency. You'll never change". That's why I wrote; "Someone who had no answer and got all frizzled".  I think it was obvious that he was getting all flustered, e.g; "I can't do it any more.  I'm worn out with this nonsense.  The wind has gone out of my sail".  So I'll leave it alone now, just wanted to answer your question.

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9 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

No, I don't see it.... Probably because I myself would not be antagonized by the truth. Consider this quick example, Jonathan asked; "Pretend, for the sake of argument, that God exists.  What changes?  Nothing". My answer; "If God exist, it changes everything, it means that a Supreme Being created us, is in charge, and controls our destiny after death". His response; "Such wonderful consistency. You'll never change". That's why I wrote; "Someone who had no answer and got all frizzled".  I think it was obvious that he was getting all flustered, e.g; "I can't do it any more.  I'm worn out with this nonsense.  The wind has gone out of my sail".  So I'll leave it alone now, just wanted to answer your question.

 

If you're going to read my emotional state -- at least make an effort to get it right.  That's not flustered.  That's exhaustion.  There is a difference.  As usual, you will insist on your own insufferable spin.  

 

:sigh2:

Edited by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

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9 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

No, I don't see it.... Probably because I myself would not be antagonized by the truth. Consider this quick example, Jonathan asked; "Pretend, for the sake of argument, that God exists.  What changes?  Nothing". My answer; "If God exist, it changes everything, it means that a Supreme Being created us, is in charge, and controls our destiny after death". His response; "Such wonderful consistency. You'll never change". That's why I wrote; "Someone who had no answer and got all frizzled".  I think it was obvious that he was getting all flustered, e.g; "I can't do it any more.  I'm worn out with this nonsense.  The wind has gone out of my sail".  So I'll leave it alone now, just wanted to answer your question.

 

An addendum:  It took me a while to see this part.  Now, my response.

 

:lol:     :grin:     :rofl:     :llol:     :birgits_giggle:

 

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