Racing with a tiger


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1.  Slapping a child to alert it to danger or prevent harm got tossed by the teacher.... because she felt the inclusion if the word innocent indicated the child was not “doing” anything to warrant act

It is a fairly bad definition. Still, at no point did I say the child was putting its hand in the fire. Perhaps the fire was moving towards the child. Slapping the hand simply triggers the reflexive d

Hurt could be defined as harm. Harm the child to prevent harm to the child?

"In any case, you can't have effective allegory in times when people are swept this way and that by momentary convictions, because everyone will read it differently. You can't indicate moral values when morality changes with what is being done, because there is no accepted basis of judgment. And you cannot show the operation of grace when grace is cut off from nature or when the very possibility of grace is denied, because no one will have the least idea of what you are about." - Flannery O'Connor

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On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 2:25 PM, VonNoble said:

You are correct....that was the ONKY one we did not dissect over and over and over...

:unsure:

von

sorry to have thrown a wrench at it...or maybe it's a good thing to view things from multiple perspectives and possibilities?

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2 hours ago, Kingfisher said:

"In any case, you can't have effective allegory in times when people are swept this way and that by momentary convictions, because everyone will read it differently. You can't indicate moral values when morality changes with what is being done, because there is no accepted basis of judgment. And you cannot show the operation of grace when grace is cut off from nature or when the very possibility of grace is denied, because no one will have the least idea of what you are about." - Flannery O'Connor

 

 

It sounds like a call for objectivity.  Interesting, but generally elusive.  

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On 3/8/2018 at 5:29 PM, mererdog said:

The majority of photos of Earth from the moon aren't disc shaped. They are truncated by shadow. And the curvature of the shadow is exactly what you would expect if you were looking at a ball that was only partially lit.

Still, it isn't just about perceived shape. It isn't about one piece of evidence, or one type of evidence. It is when looking at all the evidence as a whole that find the truth. In the picture highlighted in this article, you can clearly make out the northern edge of Africa. If the Earth is flat, where is the US?

The US is on the other side of the plate.

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9 hours ago, mererdog said:

I used to believe this. I occasionally read in my dreams, though. Never anything as complex as a book. Just signs and labels. And not on a regular basis.

 

 

I've had plenty of dreams where I was in a library or school of some type.  My brain can fake read a sign.  It can't read a book in a dream.  That's how I test to know if it is a dream. Maybe I have a more suspicious mind than you do.  Sometimes, I feel compelled to put reality to a test.   I am Agnostic.  

 

:mellow:

Edited by Jonathan H. B. Lobl
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10 hours ago, Brother Kaman said:

The US is on the other side of the plate.

And no one notices the transition when flying to Europe? And wouldn't the geometry you suggest mean the entire US would have to be on the same day/night cycle, as the sun could only be on one side of the plate or the other, with an abrupt transition as it passes beyond the rim?

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7 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 That's how I test to know if it is a dream. Maybe I have a more suspicious mind than you do. 

I am rarely actively motivated in my dreams. Just reactive. And there is rarely an awareness of anything beyond the immediate. It isn't until I am awake and remembering that I realize the strangeness of the dream.

I suspect the difference is more a matter of consciousness than suspiciousness. It sounds like your conscious mind is more active while asleep than mine is.

I had lucid dreams on a regular basis when I was younger. I was also an insomniac who would go days without sleep and then sleep a day away. Living the meth addict lifestyle without the meth, you know? I have more regular sleep patterns now, and losing the lucid dreams seems to be a side-effect of that. I am a lot healthier, so I figure its worth it and don't want to rock the boat.

Edited by mererdog
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18 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

This method will tell you if you are having a lucid dream.  It will not tell you if you are in a computer simulation.  

 

Actually it seems you are correct.  Most people cannot read a book while dreaming - apparently it affects the right side of your brain...you also cannot count on your fingers (for some reason they are missing a digit or two or are somehow deformed) and you do not actually speak...in your dream your language skills are messed up - -  - - you communicate in the dream just fine as if you were talking but you don't "hear" yourself talk. It is more some sort of telepathy.   I am glad you brought it up - it was interesting.   

 

Of course research indicates this is not 100% conclusive as nothing ever is - but it is VERY widely true. 

 

thx

von

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16 hours ago, cuchulain said:

sorry to have thrown a wrench at it...or maybe it's a good thing to view things from multiple perspectives and possibilities?

 

I agree with you in general principle.   I think it is GOOD for me to look at things from multiple perspectives....and often try to do that.   Good approach.  In this instance we were in a class.....with more than 50 participants trying to collectively agree on solutions ....racing the clock for points.  SOoooooo when we take a vote and are ready to move on then someone slows down the process it does become a bit tedious.  

 

A few of us suspected in large part after a few rounds of trying it was (from the teacher's perspective) more about causing us to work as a group - weed out the easy stuff and dig a bit....if we did that for a bit - we sort of concluded we MIGHT be permitted to move on and finish for max points.   

 

We will never know - but there was serious speculation that it was an exercise in group dynamics as much as Philosophy as in reality Philosophy has very few absolutes.  

 

But again - in general life (outside of the classroom drill) - I would agree with you!

 

Thanks for posting.

 

von

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5 minutes ago, VonNoble said:

 

Actually it seems you are correct.  Most people cannot read a book while dreaming - apparently it affects the right side of your brain...you also cannot count on your fingers (for some reason they are missing a digit or two or are somehow deformed) and you do not actually speak...in your dream your language skills are messed up - -  - - you communicate in the dream just fine as if you were talking but you don't "hear" yourself talk. It is more some sort of telepathy.   I am glad you brought it up - it was interesting.   

 

Of course research indicates this is not 100% conclusive as nothing ever is - but it is VERY widely true. 

 

thx

von

I have dreamed that I was cursing or loudly shouting actual words at people and my wife has told me that I was loudly moaning or "wooooooing" in my sleep.

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57 minutes ago, VonNoble said:

 

Actually it seems you are correct.  Most people cannot read a book while dreaming - apparently it affects the right side of your brain...you also cannot count on your fingers (for some reason they are missing a digit or two or are somehow deformed) and you do not actually speak...in your dream your language skills are messed up - -  - - you communicate in the dream just fine as if you were talking but you don't "hear" yourself talk. It is more some sort of telepathy.   I am glad you brought it up - it was interesting.   

 

Of course research indicates this is not 100% conclusive as nothing ever is - but it is VERY widely true. 

 

thx

von

 

Thank you.  When I have a lucid dream, I must do some finger counting.  

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1 hour ago, mererdog said:

I am rarely actively motivated in my dreams. Just reactive. And there is rarely an awareness of anything beyond the immediate. It isn't until I am awake and remembering that I realize the strangeness of the dream.

I suspect the difference is more a matter of consciousness than suspiciousness. It sounds like your conscious mind is more active while asleep than mine is.

I had lucid dreams on a regular basis when I was younger. I was also an insomniac who would go days without sleep and then sleep a day away. Living the meth addict lifestyle without the meth, you know? I have more regular sleep patterns now, and losing the lucid dreams seems to be a side-effect of that. I am a lot healthier, so I figure its worth it and don't want to rock the boat.

 

Back in the sixties, it was common to say -- "Question authority".  I go past that.  I question if things don't seem real.  Sometimes, it's a dream.  It's a philosophic stance.  I take seriously, the proposition, that we are lost in illusion.  I question.  I test.  

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1 hour ago, Brother Kaman said:

I have dreamed that I was cursing or loudly shouting actual words at people and my wife has told me that I was loudly moaning or "wooooooing" in my sleep.

 

In normal dream states, we have sleep paralysis.  This is what is abnormal about sleep walking.  Shouting requires breath control, which is overcome by the sleep paralysis.

 

Oddly enough, I have also discovered that I was dreaming, when I couldn't shout.  Or strike.  The effect was wrong.  I became suspicious.  

 

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10 minutes ago, mererdog said:

I like that the headline says the technique was "independantly verified." An alternative headline with an equal amount of veracity would read "Study Shows More Than Half Of Participants Lie About Lucid Dreaming." 

 

LOL

I'm not commenting on the accuracy of the study, .... it's just that this conversation was talking about lucid dreams and this happened to show up on facebook.

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